L4 clickie repair instructions..

Hello everyone..
My name is Jeff Hanko. Long time lurker, first time poster. I finally got around to looking into my L4's switch problem. My switch has been too hard and sticky since the day I got it. The only thing wrong with these switches is a lack of lubrication on it's plunger, ratchet and guide bore. I have come up with a disassembly procedure that guarantees no damage whatsoever. I am confident that anyone in this forum could perform this fix successfully and you'll be amazed with the results....
First, put the tail cap assembly in a ziploc sandwich bag and put it in a pan of boiling water for 5-10 minutes. This will soften the loctite on the threaded ring without damaging anything else. You MUST heat it to unscrew it.
Second, while holding the cap with a washcloth or something similar (it will be hot), unscrew the ring retaining the switch assembly and rubber boot. Unscrew the ring by grabbing the 2 slots in the ring (preferably with something plastic) and rotating counter-clockwise. I used a pair of plastic tweezers (the kind you find in a cheap first aid kit) to unscrew mine.
Third, remove the boot and switch assembly, making a mental note on how it came apart. There are not a lot of pieces in there to remember. The switch will basically fall apart in your hand. What you need to do is apply grease to the black plastic pieces (3 of them) that come off of the switch housing. I recommend using a synthetic grease as petrolium based greases could soften/swell the rubber boot. Krytox grease is perfect if you can find it, but any grease will do.
Finally, re-assemble in reverse order. If you like, you can use loctite on the threads again. When back together, you will notice the switch is much easier to push and when it clicks on and off it makes a solid quiet thump instead of the cheap plastic sounding click it had before. This fix turns a great flashlight into a flawless one.. and it takes less than an hour. If anyone needs any more info or pictures of disassembly procedure, let me know. Good Luck!

Jeff

Thanks! I will have to try this out.

-Mike

I had what I considered to be a fairly 'decent' Z57 switch, as it wasn't too terribly stiff. But the 20 minute job you described so well makes a *big* difference! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

It was pretty easy to do, as you described. I used the points of a pair of fine point needle nose pliers, and it did take some finish off of the inside of the notches in the retaining ring, but it's very minor. No other marks, of course.

I used Nye 758G silicone lube, in case some of it got on the electrical contacts. I reassembled with some heavy silicone grease on the retaining ring, to help keep water out, and to make it easy to disassemble if the need should arise in the future.

What a difference! The switch now takes about half the pressure, and is much smoother, without the grating 'plastic on plastic' click that was there before. What an improvement!

How come SureFire isn't smart enough to lube the plastic parts? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif The plastic ratcheting parts will wear without the lube, of course, causing switch failure after some use.

Thanks for posting this easy fix for a badly executed and/or engineered part from SureFire.

Pretty impressive for your first post! Thanks!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

When I ordered my L4 from TW, I also ordered the "twisty" tail cap switch. It has a rubber "button" on the end for momentary illumination, but you have to turn the cap for full "on". The cap also has the "lock-out" feature. Turn it counter cockwise a little further and the rubber button will not turn the light on accidentally. I thought this was the best way to go as I carry my L4 and two spare lithiums in a little cordura cell phone case I purchased at a gunshow for about $7.00.

Will

Nice post Jeff, welcome to CPF. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I have had excellent results in fixing the stiff Z57s. I though I would take a minute to share my results and thoughts with you.

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The only thing wrong with these switches is a lack of lubrication on it's plunger, ratchet and guide bore.

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With all due respect, this is incorrect. The primary problem with the stiff Z57s is a tolerance issue . However, you are correct that lubrication can improve the action of the switch, sometimes considerably so. Darell was the first member here to detail the improvement that could be realized with the use of additional lube to the switch internals. Lubrication seems to be most effective on Z57s that are less "stiff". The stiffer your switch, the less lilkely that the "lube only" procedure will result in satisfactory results, IMHO.

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You MUST heat it to unscrew it.

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Heating is certainly helpful, and *would* be required if you are using a tool that can't apply very much torque. It's *generally* not required if you have the proper tool though. I've only had to heat a couple of particularly troublesome Z57s to get them apart. I *do* think heating the switch is a good idea in general though, if done carefully. It certainly will make the switch much easier to disassemble, particularly if you are using a "field expedient" tool to get it apart. Your method seems like a good way to accomplish this without the risk of "overdoing it" that may result with other heating methods.

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What you need to do is apply grease to the black plastic pieces (3 of them) that come off of the switch housing.

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What is really required to "fix" the clickie is to add a thin washer where the two halves of the switch come apart. This will provide the necessary clearance to allow the internal components to function without binding.

[ QUOTE ]
When back together, you will notice the switch is much easier to push and when it clicks on and off it makes a solid quiet thump instead of the cheap plastic sounding click it had before.

[/ QUOTE ]

Depending on the amount and viscosity of the lube you use, the sound and "feel" of the click will vary considerably. I prefer the tactile feel of a nice "crisp" click on my Z57, but this will probably vary from person to person. With the addition of the washer, it is not necessary to add any lube at all. I prefer the way the switch operates without the extra lube. I'm not really knowledgable about the various types of plastic, but I think the parts in this switch are likely made of some type of "self-lubricating" plastic/nylon/composite material. It is *not* necessary to add lube to make your switch operate smoothly!

Please don't just take my word for all of this Jeff. Send me a PM with your mailing address and I'll mail you one of the "magic" washers. Only then will you truly see just how nice your clickie can be! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Respectfully,


Peter

No offence taken or meant but here are some points worth mentioning:

"With all due respect, this is incorrect. The primary problem with the stiff Z57s is a tolerance issue."

In my situation, it is absolutely correct. The problem with my cap was binding between the plunger and bore if the button was not pushed dead center (thumb off to one side slightly), causing plunger to wedge in the bore. Mine does not have any tolerance issues. When my ratchet teeth click, I still have an additional .016" of plunger travel before the large spring bottoms out. Perhaps Surefire had different batches of springs and some switches got shipped with a spring with 1 or 2 more windings than others. This might explain why some L4's work great out of the box and some reqire two thumbs.

"Heating is certainly helpful, and *would* be required if you are using a tool that can't apply very much torque. It's *generally* not required if you have the proper tool though."

True, but I was trying to make this an easy job for eveyone. 99% of the do it yourselfers on this forum do not have the "proper tool" and are not interested in investing the time to make one.

"Your method seems like a good way to accomplish this without the risk of "overdoing it" that may result with other heating methods."

Thank you!

"What is really required to "fix" the clickie is to add a thin washer where the two halves of the switch come apart. This will provide the necessary clearance to allow the internal components to function without binding."

Again, this is not the case with my light. I have tried my switch with a .020" shim between the switch halves and the result was a click too soft for my taste. Almost no distinction between momentary on and maintained on. I found myself clicking it on when my intention was momentary.

"I'm not really knowledgable about the various types of plastic, but I think the parts in this switch are likely made of some type of "self-lubricating" plastic/nylon/composite material. It is *not* necessary to add lube to make your switch operate smoothly!"

All plastics benefit from lubrication. "Self-lubricating" plastics (Teflon, Rulon, etc.) have a low coefficiant of friction but in general are soft and require a large surface area to be effective. In these switches, the plastic must be very hard (so the ratchet teeth don't round off) and can't have large surface contact areas (switch is compact). Lubrication MAY not be necessary but it cannot hurt anything and will certainly extent the life of the moving parts, so why not use it..

Again, no offence taken or meant.

Jeff

Jeff, No offense taken (or intended), I stand corrected. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I find your results very interesting. Apparently the issue with your switch was different that what I have been seeing. I have had 100% success (12 or 13 Z57s so far) by adding a .025" (.65mm) shim between the plastic switch halves. It does make the switch much easier to click, but this is my goal. I much prefer it this way and have had no issues with "clicking through" inadvertently. I have not experimented with spacers of different thicknesses, but this may be a way to further "customize" the click resistance.

The only "drawback" I see with the additional lubrication is the alteration of the tactile feel of the clickie. Excess lube tends to "deaden" the action of the switch in my experience. This is just my preference of course, and YMMV.


Peter

Sounds great.. I see this forum as a place to share information and gather resources. This forum would be a pretty boring place without conflict, skepticism and criticism. I have always been the type of person that tries to improve everything I purchase. You would think that when you fork over ~$130 for a small flashlight, it would be perfect in every way. Things rarely work out this way. I have had several Surefire's in the past (9N,8X,9P), but when I heard about the L4, I just had to get one, as it was such a technological leap from mine. Pretty weak throw but excellent beam quality and color. I'm actually thinking about getting another one. (My wife will kill me)

Anyway, I'm happy to see replies to my post. Good to see that others are reading and more importantly, thinking!

Keep up the good work....

Jeff

Jeff, thank you so much.

I'm still trying to decide if I like my clickie's action or not and whether to perform a mod or not.

If I do, I will most certainly post results and thank either you or Litfuse.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Good stuff guys. Here I've fixed some switches one way, and some the other. There's no question that some of these are binding up on the bore - that's what I initially found on my very first switch. Since then, I've run across some that also require the spacer. So the good news is that everybody's right! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Thanks to all for sharing - this is the kind of stuff that makes CPF great!

I guess I was fortunate in the 'Z57 lottery'. After lubricating my switch, it is still very easy to feel the difference between the momentary on and the switch engaging; easily discernable by tactile feedback.

But the switch is much, much smoother, and significantly lighter. I'm *very* pleased with the result!

For those that need a shim, and may not have ready access, perhaps someone who does could make them available via a group buy. Buying a hundred or more should make them pretty cheap, and you could ask buyers to send you a SASE, to make shipping easy for you. Probably taping the shim to a small piece of cereal box cardboard would ensure it's safe arrival in a regular First Class Mail envelope. Just a thought.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Again, thanks to JHanko for the excellent post! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Thank you for the recognition...

Just discovered a free source for the spacer ring which everyone already has! If you cut the plastic outer wrap off of a 123A battery there is a small plastic ring at the negative end of the battery. Fits the Z57 clicky switch perfectly! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Ratdog said:
Just discovered a free source for the spacer ring which everyone already has! If you cut the plastic outer wrap off of a 123A battery there is a small plastic ring at the negative end of the battery. Fits the Z57 clicky switch perfectly! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Holy shi*!, he's right! It's a perfect match! Way to go Ratdog! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif If you only knew the time I've spent driving around looking for a plastic washer in this exact size! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif I can't believe it, they were right under my nose the entire time. Aaaaghh! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif The ones out of the SureFire cells are even a nice pretty blue!

Peter

I'll be dipped. I'm spacer-rich now!

The Panasonics are blue too. I've taken them out of three brands, and they're all measuring 0.52mm (edited from 0.052 - oops) thick if anybody is interested. Now I even feel better about my more complete 123 recycling program. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks Rat-boy!

Just curious Darell, I haven't taken one apart myself, but was that .052mm, or .52mm?
Thanks,

David <><

RevDavid, it's a typo, they're approx. .52mm thick.


Peter

Just tried this mod, the difference is night and day! Thanks to all those that contributed to this. Litfuse for the diagram, JHanko for the instructions, and Ratdog for the spacer idea.

For those who are considering this: If your z57 doesnt feel like a Scorpion or Kroll tailswitch do this mod!

[ QUOTE ]
V8TOYOTATRK said:
Just tried this mod, the difference is night and day! Thanks to all those that contributed to this. Litfuse for the diagram, JHanko for the instructions, and Ratdog for the spacer idea.

For those who are considering this: If your z57 doesnt feel like a Scorpion or Kroll tailswitch do this mod!

[/ QUOTE ]

Does the mod make the Z57 feel more like the Kroll? because that is one nice switch... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Just a note on 123 battery washers from the negative end of the battery, I first tried a tekcell washer and it didn't fit where it was supposed to fit(to small inside) and let me to believe that the washer went in a location other than where it was supposed to go. I then tried a Surefire washer and sure-enough (no pun intended) it fit perfectly.