Most Lumens with 2 x CR123 Primaries?

I'm thinking of a Eagletac TC20C2 but I know there are several high lumen 2 x CR123 xm-l lights out there these days. I'm not interested in anything below 500 ansi lumens for the first 5 minutes (at least).

This is for my wife so I don't mind a temperature or time circuit that knocks down output to prevent overheating. Not interested in a drop in. I'd like a flashlight. Lets keep it under $100.

Of the current crop which is the best?

If I had to guess, I would say the Thrunite scorpion V2 which does about 700 (ANSI/FL1 measured) lumens on two cr123a cells. It is very slightly over you $100 mark (about $115 with CPF discount).

Doesn't the eagletac do about the same? I'm not a big thrunite fan.

CPF member chipdouglas has both the Scorpion V2 and the EagleTac T20C2 MKII with the HO XML drop-in. He said the Scorpion has quite a bit more output.

The Scorpion V2 has the brightest output for about 1 min. Then it is decreasing. The brightest output of the Eagletac is deacreasing after 3 minutes.
It is interesting to compare the outputs of the flashlights after 10 minutes.
As far as I know, after about 40 minutes the V2 (on 18650, less on 2xCR123) is not a competitor to the T20C2 XM-L. The output of my own T20C2 XM-L almost doesn't change between 3:40min - 120:00min (on 18650 2800mAh). The output is deacreasing for about 15-20% in the next 38min. Then it starts blinking.
P.S. I am not sure but it seems that the T20C2 MkII XM-L are brighter then previous versions of T20C2 MKII with the XM-L drop-ins.

Every powerful light ever made drops lumens in the first few minutes due to heat. The Scorpion V2 does stabilize at about 700 lumens from about 3 minutes to 30 minutes on cr123a cells. See the review selfbuilt did. Of course you get more run time with the T20C2 MKII because it has 200 lumens less output.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?316421

Good info that!
Unfortunately, I hate that complicated tailcap.
Any other ideas folks?

I have the Eagletac T20C2 XM-L markII and I love the light. Its the most used of all my lights. Very bright! I can see well beyond 100 yards when I go out on the farm at night. I also like the light because it has a low setting of 10 lumens for around the house.

What kind of batteries do u use?

tre said:

Every powerful light ever made drops lumens in the first few minutes due to heat. The Scorpion V2 does stabilize at about 700 lumens from about 3 minutes to 30 minutes on cr123a cells. See the review selfbuilt did. Of course you get more run time with the T20C2 MKII because it has 200 lumens less output.

Click to expand...

I know that. All those lumens are in theory. In theory the Scorpion V2's output lumens after 1min must be 89% of 750 ANSI (668 lumens). Actually, it is so but they are not stabilized at that value. They are getting less and less.
On the other hand, at first 3min the T20C2 MkII XM-L gives 580 ANSI. Then it drops to 406 ANSI (-30%). (Somehow, for me this drop is visible only at the moment of automatic switching.)
At some point after switching ON both lights the visible output will be the same. (My guess is that in natural environment a human eye won't see any difference after the first minute.) At another point the ANSI output will be the same. Then the output of the T20C2 MkII XM-L will overcome the Scorpion V2's.
So what I am telling is it would be interesting to compare both lights side by side by those people who have both of them.
P.S. Another issue for the topic starter is to keep in mind that the Scorpion V2 is bigger and weigh more than the T20C2.

recDNA said:

Good info that!
Unfortunately, I hate that complicated tailcap.
Any other ideas folks?

Click to expand...

hahahaha. I'm not sure I'm sold on the tailcap either.
This is out of left field but have you looked at the Sunwayman M40A XML? It is a bit larger and thicker than a 2x cr123a light but it is as bright as the scorpion and throws farther. It is built like a tank and runs on 4 AA cells. It is one of my favorite small thrower lights.

skyer said:

I know that. All those lumens are in theory. In theory the Scorpion V2's output lumens after 1min must be 89% of 750 ANSI (668 lumens). Actually, it is so but they are not stabilized at that value. They are getting less and less.
On the other hand, at first 3min the T20C2 MkII XM-L gives 580 ANSI. Then it drops to 406 ANSI (-30%). (Somehow, for me this drop is visible only at the moment of automatic switching.)

Click to expand...

I'm not sure where you are getting your figures. Look up the ANSI/NEMA FL1 standard. The published figures are OTF lumen measurements taken 3 minutes after the light has been turned on.

tre
I got the data from your link and from the Eagletac's and Thrunite's websites. Eagletac says that T20C2 MkII XM-L has "720 lumens with 580 ANSI FL-1 Lumen". Also, "720 Lumen TURBO "BOOST" for three minutes, then drops to 1.5a/500 Lumen standard high to extend runtime". 500 lumens in standart high is about 30% drop from Turbo Boost. A 30% off from 580 ANSI is about 406 ANSI.
As for the Scorpion V2, yes, the manufacturer says only about OFT lumens. I doubt that OFT lumens should be more than ANSI lumens. And its clear written that "Max: 750 OFT lumens for 1 minute, then drop to 89% when using2xCR123A". 89% from 750 OFT is 668 lumens.

recDNA said:

What kind of batteries do u use?

Click to expand...

I've always used Surefire 123's never tried the 18650.

Rechargeables open a whole new world of possibilities. Most of today's LED flashlights go together with 18650s, its almost like bread and butter. This is because in the long run, rechargeables will probably save you a ton of money from reduced running costs! Not to mention longer runtimes and brighter performance too.

Spark SL6-800CW is 500 lumens with an 800 turbo mode.
Runs on 2xCR123A

skyer said:

tre
I got the data from your link and from the Eagletac's and Thrunite's websites. Eagletac says that T20C2 MkII XM-L has "720 lumens with 580 ANSI FL-1 Lumen". Also, "720 Lumen TURBO "BOOST" for three minutes, then drops to 1.5a/500 Lumen standard high to extend runtime". 500 lumens in standart high is about 30% drop from Turbo Boost. A 30% off from 580 ANSI is about 406 ANSI.
As for the Scorpion V2, yes, the manufacturer says only about OFT lumens. I doubt that OFT lumens should be more than ANSI lumens. And its clear written that "Max: 750 OFT lumens for 1 minute, then drop to 89% when using2xCR123A". 89% from 750 OFT is 668 lumens.

Click to expand...

I can see where there would be massive confusion. There are not really any good explanations and the web sitea don't do a good job of explaining things.

Here is the story:
Selfbuilt measured lumens on the Scorpion V2 using the ANSI/NEMA FL1 standard and got 680 lumens on 2x cr123a cells. The T20C2 MKII Turbo boost is 580 lumens measured according to the ANSI/NEMA FL1 standard. Those two figures are measured using the same standard and are therefore directly comparable. I think we can agree that 680 is more than 580. The 720 lumen figure quoted for the T20C2 MKII is emitter lumens which unfortunately does nothing but confuse (I'm not sure why EagleTac even bothers to quote emitter lumens). The Scorpion V2 stabilizes (mostly) at the 680 ANSI lumen figure measured by Selfbuilt using the ANSI/NEMA FL1 standard while the T20C2 MKII can only hold the 580 ANSI lumens for 3 minutes 40 seconds and then drops to 395 ANSI lumens. If you compare the lights at about 5 minutes, the V2 is doing over 600 lumens (ANSI/NEMA FL1) while the T20C2 MKII is doing 395 (ANSI/NEMA FL1) and that is where they both stabilize. I think we can agree that 600 is more than 395. Those figures I quoted are all real figures and they are all measured according to the ANSI/NEMA FL1 standard.

T20C2 MKII ANSI/NEMA FL1 lumen levels:
580 Turbo (3 minutes 40 seconds)
395 High (drops to this after 3 minutes 40 seconds)
90 general
10 low

Clearly the Scorpion V2 has quite a bit more output at all times.

The ET T20C2 is a really good light but I like the RRT21 with the control ring better and so does my wife, it's 460 lumen which is a little under your 500 but it's really close. If I could only have one between the two it would be the RRT21 for sure, the RRT21 is more costly but you can get it right at $100.

I love my Scorpion V2 ! I can't understand why some have problems with the awesome tail cap switch. There are many more complicated UI's out there on 95% of your lights. Turning beacons, pushing this so many times, twist this push that, I know it is that way for obvious reasons. But the Scorpion in my opinion has made it easier if anything, specially for a great Tactical. Everything is right there at the business end where you need it, one hand operation instead of normally using your other hand to turn the beacon if you need more power. Simply click over where you need it and press and you got what you need at the moment. My wife loves her V2 (yeah I know had to get two,LOL) she really likes the variable or infinite so she has the option of choosing and setting what she wants for that click for lumens. My obvious vote is for the V2. Don't get me wrong the ET is great also but trying to compare the two for me there is not a comparison. If you go with the ET go with the orange color so she can find it in her purse,LOL.

DisrupTer911 said:

Spark SL6-800CW is 500 lumens with an 800 turbo mode.
Runs on 2xCR123A

Click to expand...

I can read the websites. I'm hoping for the opinions of folks who have used these flashlights. If you (or anybody else) have I'd love to hear more about the the spark vs the thrunite or the eagletac.

tre, I think your figures on lumens are not correct.
1. I suppose that the standards of measuring lumens of V2 and T20C2 are not the same. As for me, I'm not mislead by ET's 720/580 lumens. I understand the difference. It is Thrunite that confuses the people! Where have you found about the 'ANSI' in the specification of the V2? There is nothing about it! All they mention is 'OTF' and the OTF is not neceserily equals the ANSI.
2. Where have you found a figure of '680' ANSI lumens for the V2? All we know is that the output of V2 is 750 OTF for 1 minute. Then it drops to 667.5 OTF (89% of 750). These figures are close to the real tests (the first three tables in the mentioned above review http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?316421).
3. So this is a comparison of the outputs of the flashlights as anyone can do basing on the tests (on 18650): http://file.qip.ru/photo/g-NWNuth/Comparison.html

4. I would say that at first minute the V2 shines more but it is mostly for the WOW-effect. In the real using the output after the first minute should be almost the same. Then between 3min40-15min the V2 should again shine a bit more. For the next half an hour the outputs are the same. And when the V2 goes out the ET will be flashing the same for the next full hour (even more on good cells)!
5. Taking in mind these figures, the fact that the V2 is bigger and weigh more and the fact that it is very, very hard to tell the difference between the outputs of 580 and 406 ANSI lumens of T20C2's outputs, I wouldn't be so definite on the version that the Thrunite outperforms the ET.