Off-Road Motorcycle LED light

Hi!:twothumbs I need help creating an off-road led light like the vision-x/rigid industries lights. This is for a dual sport bike for high speed desert riding. I just wrote a really nice post and I got kicked off before I posted it, so forgive me if this has errors. Hopefully I can get some good ideas/help from you guys, I can't believe all the knowledge hidden on this sight, if I only had time to read it all!!!!!

I have been reading a lot, and haven't found enough specific information on what I need. I am also quite confused about the heat dissipation/cooling of LED lights. So I take it I need to make a heat sink to mount the lights to, but this will be inside a case correct? Do I use something to transfer the heat from that to the case? I see cooling fins on a lot of cases, it's a good idea to machine them into my case correct? I also don't understand how much cooling is needed for different amounts of power draw? (I haven't gotten to thermodynamics in school yet ha!) I mean like...is it linear, and is increased cooling made possible by larger heat sink/more metal for the whole light?

I don't know of 1 or 2 lights would work better for this type of usage? I could possible have 2 lights and mount one on each side of the handlebars or one on each fork. I thought this might be better, I could have a spot and a flood light and adjust them separately? I was hoping to keep them sort of small, but I'll make whatever it takes to last and dissipate the heat. I was thinking under 3" diameter or square each. If they need to be larger I would rather make 2 then 1 light so they stay smaller.

I also don't really know much about optics/reflector size. I think I've read small die+small reflector=more throw, but you are losing total light output for this? I would like a lot of light and throw, so I am not sure exactly what to do for reflectors. Also, are special lenses needed? Or is just clear glass going to be the best bet, and let the reflectors focus the light? I've seen some of these bike lights with what looked to be tiny reflectors really throw some light, so maybe you don't need as big as I think. Would an aspherical lens on the spot beam help, or is that a terrible idea?
I like the specs I see on the cree xm-l, but I thought that doesn't throw as well as a XPG, or is the difference minimal because of the greater lumen output? For drivers 1 mode is fine, but I wouldn't mind 2 if possible. Sometimes when really dusty it's better to have less light so you don't blind yourself. I don't know what I would need lumen wise? Would 3-4000 do what I want? Or is that way overkill and not possible in these size lights?I need help coming up with some ideas, then I will CAD it up and machine it. I just want to understand more of these things before I waste money ordering parts that won't do what I want. I am a college student on a limited budget , so hopefully what I want out of this is doable. I guess I could increase the budget if I need to, no point in spending 100 if it won't do what I need.

What I need:
-Good lighting at 150+ meters for high speed riding, but still need flood, can't just be 5 feet wide at 300 feet lol!
-Need help choosing reflector, LED, driver, lens, etc.
-Hopefully under $100 total minus metal to build case (I have a lot of scrap 6061)
-I have lathe, mill, indexer for mill, bunch of other machine shop items, so I can machine just about anything (No CNC access unless absolutely needed)
-Hopefully less than 5 amps draw at 12.5-13 volts (Voltage under load depending on RPM)
-Water Proof/Resistant? Need to work when riding in rain, can't quit working when muddy/wet, but not going to be taking underwater/diving.
-Vibration/bump proof! (Damn thumpers really vibrate, I've killed a GPS from the vibes.)
-1-2 lights (spot and flood maybe?) with max size of 3ish inches diameter/square by a 3ish inches long maybe increase the size if absolutely needed

Thanks so much for any possible help. I know it is a long winded post, but hopefully I got all the info down and all my questions! I have so much to learn, but I am so busy with class and work, so hopefully you all don't think i am lazy by not reading anymore. I have spent hours on end reading here, and I am still lost when it comes to some of these things!

Sorry I cant give you a more detailed reply, but this meets all of your requirements but the price: http://www.rigidindustries.com/D2-p/d2.htm

I have 4 mounted on my tuck and have been extremely happy with them. I intend on buying more for my quad and snowmobile. Hope it helps.

Well that is basically what I would like to build, I didn't put any links in because I wasn't sure how this forum responded to outside company links? I figured if they are selling it for $200 I should be able to build something similar for quite a bit cheaper, I have the free time all I would need to buy is the materials, I also probably have enough aluminum laying around to make one. I know a few people that have similar lights and they seem to work quite well, I just didn't want to spend that much when I could make them!

Thanks for the response though

I'm wondering what type of LED's these use. The Vision X one is rated at 800 lumens for a single LED, do you think that would throw better because it is a larger reflector? Or would I be better off with 3-4 smaller ones in a similar size housing? I just need some help figuring out what LED's to use, and reflectors. Are more smaller ones better for heat distribution and throw then one or two big ones?


Vision-X
Rigid

Thanks again, hopefully I'm not being too annoying here, I just need some help choosing the LED and Reflectors.
:thumbsup::thumbsup:

You may be surprised, but the best throw is achieved with Cree XP-E LEDs. XM-Ls have a larger die thus they need a larger optic/reflector for the same throw.

I think that you can make a LED light with 3 triple XP-E clusters.

Any progress on this project? I'm just getting started with constructing LED bicycle lights, but this thread has me interested in building something for my XR400.

Been really busy so I haven't gotten time to research reflectors more, and not much luck in the XM-L thread I posted in. But I have some time today and tomorrow so I've been looking! I know an xpg or xpe will throw further but that won't do much good if I'm only getting a few hundred lumens down range. I think I've decided on 2 triple xm-l setups. But again that depends on the optics, if I can get what I want with 2 xm-l with big reflectors so be it. Anyone know of a good place like cutter to order optics from that is US based so it gets here sooner? Same thing for LEDs on starboards already?

So if anyone has any help for XM-L optics I would greatly appreciate it. I have even been thinking of buying some DX dropins and using those reflectors and LED? But I'm not sure how the reflector does throw wise?

Also not sure on what driver to run, I haven't had a lot of luck at finding one, I would like a single, maybe dual mode driver. I would wire this in so it comes on with high beams, then have a secondary switch so it isn't always on with my high beams. But I don't think I would need anymore than just 1 mode. Input voltage would be as low as 10 and high as 14.5ish, so 15 to be safe. 10 is motor off and lights on worst case scenario, and 14.5 is what it hits without much of a load.

Thanks again for any help.

You can make the XM-L throw but you need a large reflector or lens. See this thread.

A little smaller and not quite as good a thrower but then I don't aim the hot spot at the horizon top save oncoming motorist's retinas, is the 35 mm (without holder, 37? with) IRIS. The EVA-D is not quite as narrow a beam, but close.

An Asperic lens in focus projects the die a bit out of focust you get a round spot. There are some aspheric lens lights and beams in this thread.

As for drivers, there is the H6Flex from Taskled in which you can set up any 2 level high low you want. The thermal cutoof may be of value to you too, but the low voltage battery monitoring won't be. You could drive all three with the same driver if the distances are under 6". Or you might be interested in the discussion in this thread of a less expensive driver and how to alter the levels or have none.


BrianMc

Wow thanks Brian, a lot of help with the lens and beamshots! I am liking the driver here. I think 2.8amps will be plenty, it should be able to power 2 xm-l's per driver right?

I'll list the reflectors I am thinking of and maybe you all can help me decide. Any ideas where I could get these from a US based reseller, or any optics/lens seller based stateside?
XML-7D-Reflector
XML-10R

Do you think there will be any big differences between the two? I know the smaller one is about half the cd per lumen, but I only need usable light to the 450ft range. Right now anything will be an improvement in that sense! I am thinking of either running 1 of the big reflectors on each side, or make a pod with 2 of the smaller ones? I am thinking 4 lights will work better, and still be within my size need/want. I think it will also give me some good spill closer to the bike also?

I liked the aspheric shots, any clue what size aspherics they ran, and do you only do an aspheric then, no reflector? So it's as simple as getting the led recessed in the housing with the aspheric the right distance in front of it?

I would like recommendations on which XM-L to run. Does a larger base/star help transport the heat away better? Also what tint/bin seems to be good? I like 4500-5500 kelvin best, well that was when I have done HID retrofits, but I assume color rendition will be similar to LED. What type of wire do you run to the driver from the LED, and what gauge do I need if I am running 2 of these each off of 1 driver.

Thanks again for the help! The more I learn the more confused I get! I just can't decide haha!

Edit: I just realized that driver I posted doesn't take the input voltage I am looking for. Are there any somewhat cheap drivers that will do what I want? I wouldn't mind the h6flex but at 40 each and needing one for each side, that adds up quite quickly!

01xr650r said:

Wow thanks Brian, a lot of help with the lens and beamshots! I am liking the driver here. I think 2.8amps will be plenty, it should be able to power 2 xm-l's per driver right?

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You could look at a 6v regultor running off yor 12 volt system. I have no experience doing that. Maybe in the vehicle section of CPF?

01xr650r said:

I'll list the reflectors I am thinking of and maybe you all can help me decide. Any ideas where I could get these from a US based reseller, or any optics/lens seller based stateside?
XML-7D-Reflector
XML-10R

Do you think there will be any big differences between the two? I know the smaller one is about half the cd per lumen, but I only need usable light to the 450ft range. Right now anything will be an improvement in that sense! I am thinking of either running 1 of the big reflectors on each side, or make a pod with 2 of the smaller ones? I am thinking 4 lights will work better, and still be within my size need/want. I think it will also give me some good spill closer to the bike also?

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Usable light to 450 feet is a tall order. I would PM troutie about the 5.5 degree 3.1 " reflector and his experience with the aspherics. Myoiu need a LOT of light in a narrow beam to throw that far. A reflector with enough close spill and a small hot spot and an aspheric to boost the power at a distance might do ti, but you are out of my experience, and you can see/read those threads as well as I can.

01xr650r said:

I liked the aspheric shots, any clue what size aspherics they ran, and do you only do an aspheric then, no reflector? So it's as simple as getting the led recessed in the housing with the aspheric the right distance in front of it?

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Troutie also posted in MTBR on those and I think the lenses used were listed. If not, e-mail him. The aspherics send a die image with no spill. So you wil have a nice patch at a distance and nothing until there. The video in this post shows a pair of aspheric beams on a helment turned on to show a pedestrian on an MUP. The two flashlights' die images are side-by-side. The camera is likely not doing justice to the bar light (likely can see father than it looks). That gives you the idea of what a focussed aspheric beam looks like. And yes, you place the LED behind the lens centerd and the die surface at the focal point of the lens.

01xr650r said:

I would like recommendations on which XM-L to run. Does a larger base/star help transport the heat away better?

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A larger MCPCB makes getting a good contact to the heat sink a bit less critical and the mounting screws (if used) can be bigger. I had a hard time getting number ones for 10 mm MCPCBs. Lapping and a smidgen of thermal paste can make the 10 mm ones do fine.

01xr650r said:

Also what tint/bin seems to be good? I like 4500-5500 kelvin best, well that was when I have done HID retrofits, but I assume color rendition will be similar to LED. What type of wire do you run to the driver from the LED, and what gauge do I need if I am running 2 of these each off of 1 driver.

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Older eyes like the warmer tints which render colors better. But at 450 feet, that isn't as big a factor. You get more lumens per watt at the higher temps, though there is some wiggle room. If you are running a near and a far beam or using the spill off a reflector for near, and bolstering the far with an aspheric, then a Neutral white tinit might be best for the one and the hotter white for the other. It is more a matter of taste than a rule.

In most lights, the runs to the LEDs are under 6 inches so a large gauge wire is not needed. Regular vinyl coated wire fishmouths by the time enough heat is applied. I think there was a teflon wire thred in MTBR in tht last month discussing this.

01xr650r said:

Thanks again for the help! The more I learn the more confused I get! I just can't decide haha!

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Edit: I just realized that driver I posted doesn't take the input voltage I am looking for. Are there any somewhat cheap drivers that will do what I want? I wouldn't mind the h6flex but at 40 each and needing one for each side, that adds up quite quickly![/QUOTE]

Yes, that additive effect can bite.

BrianMc

FYI

I have not seen wall or beamshots of the IRIS and EVA so here they are:

35 mm EVA Lens from 4':



A diffuse round spot. This was not taken at standard beam shot settings. I used normal exposure on the video camea in still mode. I also could not stand diercet behind the camera. It looked centered in the viewfinder. Oh well. The Hooded and unhooded loked the same to the camera, because the faiter spill I cut off did not show well on the short exposure.



The XM-Ls were unbinned T5. Clearly the one in the EVA light is a warmer tint, and it is closer to the bike.
Hot spot (guessing to about 25 % of Max power is about 18 degrees, about 28 degrees covers the rest of the beam seen here.

The Helmet light gets me another 50 -100 feet of lit roadway. The lights fire up road signs from much farther away.

The Iris gives a fuzzy Die image and some spill. I aim it so its hot spot extend the hot spot of the EVA giving me lane wide light from about 10 to 100 feet.



The beam is symetrical. I had an issue hand holding it. About 13 degrees square hot spot that drops to what looks to be about 10% level spill out to about 28 degrees.

Maybe I'll blow a roll of film to get standard setting beam shots.

If you want a smooth flood for near vision and a hotspot to light up the distance, then a standard smooth reflector will do that.

Mounting the light low down on the forks will cast more shadows and reveal track irregularities more clearly.

Don't sweat too much over the absolutely best LED for throw - that's only important for building the worlds most powerful thrower - where a coin-size spot at 100 meters is still useful. Just pick an LED that puts out the power you want - XP-G 3 watts, XM-L 10 watts, SST-90 30 watts, CXA2011 50 watts. If the spot is too small, defocus the lens/reflector.

LEDs waste 70 to 80% of their electrical input as heat. Virtually no heat gets radiated out the front, unlike a filament.