Drop-In for FireFly Options

Sometimes I'm a bit slow on certain things folks, so please bare with me. I've read, re-read, researched, asked questions and I'm still unclear about the various sandwiches. Could someone please outline the differences between sandwiches which are compatable with the FF, running on 1x123 cell (3-volts).

It appears the following sandwiches are capable of being used in the FF. What does each have as an advantage over the other?

-Badboy 400mA Sandwich Module Kit w/Q2
-Madmax Plus Sandwich Module kit Q2
-Madmax Plus Sandwich Module kit Q2-Wide Open
-Madmax Plus Sandwich Module kit Q3
-Madmax Plus Sandwich Module kit-Wide Open
-Madmax Sandwich Module kit Q2-Wide Open

I believe this is the list of sandwiches with are compatible.

a. Which of these give the longest constant regulated runtime?
b. Which of these would probably be the brightest?
c. Wich of these would probably be the whiteste?

Assuming my priorities are regulated runtime, whiteness and brightness (in that order), which sandwich should I use?

TIN,

a. BadBoys are the only current-regulated (constant brightness, if you ignore the effects of junction temperature rise) sandwiches. However, a turned-down MadMax can produce constant brightness for a long time. See the "Long runtime MadMax" thread on dat2zip's board.

b. MadMax+ Wide open will be brightest for any given (individual) LS.

c. The Luxeon Lottery rules. IMO you can't trust Lumileds' binning. Rs are usually brighter than Qs which are usually brighter than Ps. In my limited experience, I see a lot less blue/purple in the hotspot or corona (and not necessarily both in the same beam) in the 2 bin. Good 2s to me average more of a *soft* white. Downside of 2s is you will see more "greenies" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif . with the exception of the 5Ws, all the 3 bins I have seen have some definate blue in them somewhere. (eg, SFs first KL1s.) It's a crapshoot and everybody's personal preferences vary.

Anybody else feel free to correct me or elaborate further.

Larry

Ray-
The MMs have/had an adjustable pot. The ones that are W/O (wide open) do not have the pot and are set up to be wide open. The pot can be adjusted to wide open or turned way down for longer run time and less brightness. The downside is that the pot is only designed to be adjusted about 7-10 times, the idea being to set the module to your own desired brightness/run time setting.

The BB400 shows that the module is designed to run at 400mA and the 500 is 500mA. In the MM, the standard MM is around 400 while the MM+ is 800 - 900mA.

Less current is less brightness but longer run time; and more current is brighter but less run time. More current also means more heat.

I personally am leaning more and more towards the more practical longer running, not quite as bright and cooler running modules.

Whether you want a MM or BB is personal taste. I have several of each.

The MM is more efficient overall and will suck your cells down to .8v, but you will experience a noticeable drop in output. Good for longest run time and utilizing more of the energy available in your cells. Not good if you mind the drop in output.

The BB on the other hand runs very flat (the output is constant) and when the cells can no longer maintain that output, it drops off drastically.Great if you want flat output for the duration of the usable life of your cells. You sacrifice some run time and more unusable energy in your cells for the flat output.

I don't know anything about the FF, so I can't help you there. I use my modules with 2 AA cells in Brinkmann Legends, StopLights, and I still have one Mag that I haven't gotten rid of yet. I pretty much exclusively use NiMH with them and just recharge them often as well as carry spare cells. In fact, I've only run alks one time and that was just for a run time test with a MM R2H.

I know that I was confused as hell when I first started shopping for the modules. Between these two posts, I hope we've answered your questions.

Thanks guys. Very helpfull.

Kite, when the MM trim pot "goes out" will the output be whereever you last had it or will it go out with it wide open?

I am also a little confused.

I got a Firefly fully assembled "adjustable". What is in it for module, led, and optic?

Also, what's the difference between MM and MM+? Is that the adjustability?

Also, if it's not "wide open" does that mean it's adjustable?

Great question Nascar, and some great replies too... much appreciated.

If anybody with the required materials and time had the inclination... it would be very cool to get some sort of detailed write up about the various Firefly configurations with accompanying run times and output information -- beamshots would be a serious bonus /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

The recent thread by kiessling on CR123 luxeon lights with the various comparisons of runtime brightness and beamshots was fantastic and very informative. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB16&Number=374761&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1 I wish the Firefly had been included, and perhaps something similar done comparing the Firefly to itself in several of it potential configurations.

Also I was wondering about the overall light output Vs greatest throw issue... If one wanted to optimize either throw OR overall output (flood) what options would be best respectively?

At what point does heat become a serious issue? e.g. is a wide open MM+ really to hot with either a 1W or 3W led? Could a 5W go into the FF? and if so what might that produce?

I'm fairly ignorant about all of the above and figured the Firefly might be a good introduction to play with and learn... but geesh it can be a bit confusing /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Datasaurusrex,
(Don't ya just hate that when you type with 2 fingers /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ) Given that an NX-05 optic is used, a HD will have better throw than a LD, and the LD will be a better flood. The HD will also have a squarish hotspot and corona. I am looking forward with relish to the first person with 2 Ffs who max shortens an optic from the front and puts a spacer ring under it to make up for the shortening, and posts comparison beamshots! (I don't trust my own work unless independently confirmed /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif )

The heat issue only becomes serious when an *over powered* light is set down and picked-up later. (My CR2 job hit 190 degF once!) If it gets too hot for your hand, either hold it tighter/switch hands to heatsink it better, or shut it down! (Or run it with a lower power module with the advantage of much increased runtime.)

Larry

I just bought an R2K HD and am wondering if I'm wasting my time having someone swap out the Q3 LD that the firefly is supposed to come with, knowing that a good Q3 will be as brite as a so so R2k. I know a few people have done so with mixed results, I'm not sure what to do, anyone care to hazard a guess as to what I might expect? I might expect better throw and I hope whiter, anything else?

keithr,

The damn lottery!!!! If your LSs are anywhere near accurately-binned, you will get an increase it throw, accompanied with a squareish beam which tends to not be noticeable in the real world. It should have less blue in the center and/or sidespill, and should be brighter. You asked for a hazarded-guess. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Larry

Bushman - When the pot goes out, it becomes wide open.

alanhuth - the diff in the MM and the MM+ is the output. The MM is around 400mA and MM+ is 800mA+.

And yes, if it's not wide open, it has a pot and is adjustable. The purpose of the pot is to tune it to where you want it, not to keep readjusting it.

Think of it this way. Instead of Wayne having to make a MM that runs at 150mA, 200mA, 300mA, 350mA, 400mA, etc., etc., you get to set it at whatever you want. You could set it way down and maybe compete with an Opelec Newbeam.

The pots are physically difficult to adjust and even more difficult to adjust to whatever setting you want. It's trial and error. I've never done it, but probably the best way would be to set it up on a meter and read the amps as you adjust it. I've got 2 that are adjustable and they're wide open. I played with one when I first got it, but finally adjusted it W/O.

My personal choice is the standard MM and the BB400. They seem to hit the best of both worlds in brightness and run time. I'm glad that I've got my MM+ because it is an impressive screamer, but I do have to think about it when I'm using it to make sure I don't let it get hot. As someone said in a previous post, don't put it down and leave it on. Holding it actually helps cool it.

A big, not to be overlooked advantage of the Madmax+ is the ability to give great performance on just a single 1.5V or 1.2V cell.

-Great value too, if you like using a true pocket sized flashlight, and can't quite $wing buying an ARC-1st. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Example: my adj. Max+ (wide open) will run just as brightly on just 1>AA 2100 NiMH, as the Badboy 400 would-using 2 cells. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

tvodrd, I thank you so much for your guess, it's kind of what I thought it might be, your response that is, it is appreciated and I wouldn't have asked if I wasn't totally hooked on this silly past time.

[ QUOTE ]
vcal said:
A big, not to be overlooked advantage of the Madmax+ is the ability to give great performance on just a single 1.5V or 1.2V cell.

-Great value too, if you like using a true pocket sized flashlight, and can't quite $wing buying an ARC-1st. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Example: my adj. Max+ (wide open) will run just as brightly on just 1>AA 2100 NiMH, as the Badboy 400 would-using 2 cells. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


And a third input on this idea if no one else has thought, would be for someone to create an adapter to this firefly to lengthen it out to the size of a single AA. Some kind of o-ringed extension. The inside of the positive/sandwich end of the adapter could be machined to fit an AA battery. That would keep it from wobbling in the CR123 body. Or, just create a whole new single AA tail!