I need some informed thoughts to my Crelant 7g5cs with collimator head on my hunting

JohnGalway · Nov 20, 2012

So I bought a Crelant 7G5CS (with a neutral white LED on the basis it would allow me pick out my target better) and a collimator head for it with the intention of using it on my rifle scope to shoot red foxes at night.

I tried it out last night and didn't think a lot of it. But, in fairness, it was a poor night for visibility with a lot of moisture in the air, then rain later.

I tried it again tonight, just for a few minutes. I was looking up a field I own at a shed, I could see the bars on a small metal sheep hurdle gate at 220 meters. However I don't think I'd have been able to shoot a fox at that range, due to lack of enough illumination. The air conditions were a lot better tonight.

I had somehow expected to get more distance out of it

I was hoping for a 300 yard light, it may increase distance on a dark of the moon night but to be honest I'm left feeling disappointed.

My scope is a Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x56, and I always have it set on 8 which is I believe the optimum setting for light gathering versus magnification.

Am I being unreasonable in my expectations, or is the torch not performing as it should be?

StarHalo · Nov 20, 2012

Anything beyond 100 meters that you're needing to positively identify is really the realm of HID lights; some of the larger multi-emitter lights (Nitecore TM15 comes to mind) might be able to make 300 yards, but nothing you'd want to mount to a rifle..

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS · Nov 20, 2012

A L3 Illumination K40 would make a great fox light without having to buy a HID.

Go look at my pictures I posted here.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ld-give-the-Thrunite-TN31-a-run-for-its-money

Don't know about putting it on a rifle though. But it definately will light up and object easily at 300yds.

TEEJ · Nov 20, 2012

IIRC, you might have to turn the head of the collumnator to sharpen the LED projection and maximize the throw.

When I did that, the throw went up a lot.

You also have a lot of magnification for that range...and the more magnification, generally, the harder it is to get enough light through.

The Deerelight Night Master aspherical is a proven scope light too, and IIRC, people are picking targets well beyond the above ranges with it.

The bottom line is that you might have too much magnification for a 250 yard night shot, or a weaker than normal beam.

I'm more of an iron sight guy...but, try looking at the target by eye w/o the scope...and see what it looks like as far as being lit.

If by eye it looks like you can see it, but the scope view is too dark...its the scope.

If your eye says its too dark, its the light.

K9Patrol · Nov 20, 2012

I have the cool white version with the collimator head and it's interesting that it projects a big white square but that seems to be about it to me.. It appears to be only slightly brighter than the standard head... Goes slightly further but meh.

p.s. Don't hurt the foxes.

JohnGalway · Nov 20, 2012

Ok, some really interesting information there, thanks.

K9Patrol,

Unfortunately the foxes will kill and eat my lambs in Spring, they also do the same to my friends and neighbours hens, ducks, and geese, even cats if they get the chance - though I confess to not feeling too bad about the cats... If a stern talking to would solve the problem I'd prefer it, but we've been down that road and found the only method which is practical is keeping sheer numbers under control.

I noticed the same re the brightness of the beam with the different heads, I was surprised at that but I don't claim to know anything about the technology, which is why I'm here.

TEEJ,

Very interesting regarding turning the Collimator head thanks, I wouldn't have thought of that! I can't get out again until the weekend when the moon will be real bright but I can mess around with it and still see a difference I'm sure.

As to the magnification, been through this a bunch of times on various shooting sites. Ever notice with fixed power scopes (even top of the range Schmidt & Bender, Swarovski, etc.) why they come in 6x42, 7x50, 8x56? It's because it's the optimum magnification for light gathering considering the objective lens size. There's a formula for it which I forget. I also think I'm over due an eye test!

As I'm typing, I remember I did reduce the mag down to 5,5 tonight, didn't help a whole lot. Given the questions you raise, I'm thinking it's the light.

I was initially considering the Nightmaster 800 off a UK website, but it's very, very expensive. We may be talking about slightly different things though as I am aware there are torches using similar names that could be the same, or slightly different, I get confused when that happens. The one I was considering has a IR LED, three coloured LEDs (red, green, amber) and a white LED.

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS,

I've got a Thrunite TN31 as my spotter. It's too weighty to consider trying to mount it to my rifle. I'd be concerned about it damaging the rifle or the recoil damaging it. I got the TN31 purely as a spotter and the Crelant purely to sit on my scope as a gun light so I wouldn't have to waste any time if I needed to take a quick shot.

StarHalo,

I reckon I could shoot well past 100 with this light, or the FandyFire I had on it previously. I'm just sort of caught between two stools here as I am changing to LED torches to get away from big batteries in backpacks, lightforce lamps and wires.

roadkill1109 · Nov 21, 2012

Just a bit curious here about the light with the collimator, what exactly are you using to power it? 4xCR123's or 2x18650's?

saabluster · Nov 21, 2012

John I think the SmallSun I mod would be perfect for this. The throw is about the same as your TN-31 but the beam shape is like the Crelant with the collimator. I have the Crelant myself as I was considering modding it but was not impressed at all. The Modded SmallSun is far smaller and lighter while still having a longer throwing beam than the Crelant. Don't know if that would be exactly what you are looking for or not but I thought I'd mention it

Here is a quick shot I took to show you the difference in size.

1652DD71-398E-46A3-AFA0-3B47B727FA2B-6161-000003AC0A8840EE_zps45bcfb99.jpg

BLUE LED · Nov 21, 2012

Sounds like you need more throw. As you already own a Crelant 7G5 V2 with aspheric head. The cheapest way would be to mod the pill section with an XR-E R2 EZ900 and drive it at 1.7A. The shape of the beam profile will change, but you will have a monster thrower that will make you smile. It will beat your TN31 easily. Good Lux

Tiresius · Nov 21, 2012

There isn't a lot wow factor with modding the crelant. I would stick with the reflector/XML. As a hunting light, I'd recommend something smaller. Size and weight makes a HUGE difference when you're hauling weight around and traveling up and down those hills.

The pill is annoying to make for the 7G5 V2. I've already done the XR-E and XR-C and found the de-domed XR-E to be much better than a domed XR-E. But you will such a small beam that it isn't usable at all for what you're looking for.

BLUE LED · Nov 22, 2012

I suggested the aspheric R2 EZ900 option because it seemed that the XM-L aspheric did not have enough throw to light up the target. Therefore more throw is required that is compact enough to shoot with. I can only suggest carefully taking the dome off your XM-L.

Tiresius · Nov 22, 2012

BLUE LED said:
I suggested the aspheric R2 EZ900 option because it seemed that the XM-L aspheric did not have enough throw to light up the target. Therefore more throw is required that is compact enough to shoot with. I can only suggest carefully taking the dome off your XM-L.

de-doming it doesn't make a huge difference for an XM-L. Only for the reflector, it does. The die on the XM-L is too large behind the aspheric.

BLUE LED · Nov 22, 2012

I was thinking of the dedome XM-L U2 with smooth reflector. The only problem is the yellow tint :green:

JohnGalway · Nov 23, 2012

roadkill1109 said:
Just a bit curious here about the light with the collimator, what exactly are you using to power it? 4xCR123's or 2x18650's?

Yeah I've got protected Xtar 3100mah 18650's, so I use two of those.

saabluster said:
John I think the SmallSun I mod would be perfect for this. The throw is about the same as your TN-31 but the beam shape is like the Crelant with the collimator. I have the Crelant myself as I was considering modding it but was not impressed at all. The Modded SmallSun is far smaller and lighter while still having a longer throwing beam than the Crelant. Don't know if that would be exactly what you are looking for or not but I thought I'd mention it

Here is a quick shot I took to show you the difference in size.

Hi Saabluster,

Size isn't so much of an issue as I've come from a Lightforce 170 Striker and a 28amp sealed lead acid battery on my back. I'm good with the size of the Crelant or Fandyfire, but wouldn't want bigger.

Performance is where it's at for me.

I have a short list of "needs" and "wants" for this light.

I "need":

To have enough illumination (raw light if you will) to see my fox at 250 yards well enough to shoot him.
To have an LED the correct tint so that colours don't get washed out which will help the fox blend in with surrounding vegetation which makes my shooting impossible. (The Crelant I ordered has a neutral tint, not the cool and bluish tint like the TN31 I bought - it's harder for me to pick out rabbits with the TN31 compared to my old Lightforce incandescant (spellling!) light because of the TN31's tint, the LF beam on the ground in front of me is really yellow compared to the TN31)
To have some easily operated facility to dim the light.

I "want" (this is more of an "I'd ideally like to have" list - it's short lol):

To have enough illumination (raw light if you will) to see my fox at 300 yards well enough to shoot him.

It's also important for me to have enough light to see what's behind my fox, my backstop where the bullet will go if I miss or it passes through.

Do you know if your modded light would do the above for me?

BLUE LED said:
Sounds like you need more throw. As you already own a Crelant 7G5 V2 with aspheric head. The cheapest way would be to mod the pill section with an XR-E R2 EZ900 and drive it at 1.7A. The shape of the beam profile will change, but you will have a monster thrower that will make you smile. It will beat your TN31 easily. Good Lux

Thanks Blue but I may just sell it if I get something to beat it, I don't know much about the technology to go messing with it.

Tiresius said:
There isn't a lot wow factor with modding the crelant. I would stick with the reflector/XML. As a hunting light, I'd recommend something smaller. Size and weight makes a HUGE difference when you're hauling weight around and traveling up and down those hills.

The pill is annoying to make for the 7G5 V2. I've already done the XR-E and XR-C and found the de-domed XR-E to be much better than a domed XR-E. But you will such a small beam that it isn't usable at all for what you're looking for.

The Crelants Collimated beam is just perfect in size for my scope, I was worried that the square wouldn't fill my scope but it does that and more which is good.

BLUE LED · Nov 23, 2012

It is tough to beat the beam profile of your Crelant 7G5 V2 XM-L collimator head. Perhaps the moded Fandyfire will do it? I don't own one, so I cannot compare the throw and beam profile at a long distance. You could just try and focus your collimator head for maximum throw.

Ragnar66 · Nov 23, 2012

TEEJ said:
IIRC, you might have to turn the head of the collumnator to sharpen the LED projection and maximize the throw.

When I did that, the throw went up a lot.

Not a hunter but I have the D.light aspherical, awesome light.

You also have a lot of magnification for that range...and the more magnification, generally, the harder it is to get enough light through.

The Deerelight Night Master aspherical is a proven scope light too, and IIRC, people are picking targets well beyond the above ranges with it.

The bottom line is that you might have too much magnification for a 250 yard night shot, or a weaker than normal beam.

I'm more of an iron sight guy...but, try looking at the target by eye w/o the scope...and see what it looks like as far as being lit.

If by eye it looks like you can see it, but the scope view is too dark...its the scope.

If your eye says its too dark, its the light.

JohnGalway · Nov 23, 2012

Yeah, I'm going to try focusing it first to see what the story is. When I tried it out I didn't know I was able to do that

In the mean time though I'll explore other options too, it will save me time in the long run if I research and experiment at the same time.

Tiresius · Nov 23, 2012

Also forgot to mention...Replace the stock collimator lens with at least a DX lens. I personally didn't like either so I used a car's aspheric with a more narrow viewing angle for smaller, tighter beam. The difference is noticeable to the eye.

BLUE LED · Nov 23, 2012

Tiresius said:
Also forgot to mention...Replace the stock collimator lens with at least a DX lens. I personally didn't like either so I used a car's aspheric with a more narrow viewing angle for smaller, tighter beam. The difference is noticeable to the eye.

Hey great find. I played around with the stock collimator head and the results are not very impressive. Thanks for the tip.

saabluster · Nov 24, 2012

JohnGalway said:
Hi Saabluster,

Size isn't so much of an issue as I've come from a Lightforce 170 Striker and a 28amp sealed lead acid battery on my back. I'm good with the size of the Crelant or Fandyfire, but wouldn't want bigger.

Performance is where it's at for me.

I have a short list of "needs" and "wants" for this light.

I "need":

To have enough illumination (raw light if you will) to see my fox at 250 yards well enough to shoot him.
To have an LED the correct tint so that colours don't get washed out which will help the fox blend in with surrounding vegetation which makes my shooting impossible. (The Crelant I ordered has a neutral tint, not the cool and bluish tint like the TN31 I bought - it's harder for me to pick out rabbits with the TN31 compared to my old Lightforce incandescant (spellling!) light because of the TN31's tint, the LF beam on the ground in front of me is really yellow compared to the TN31)
To have some easily operated facility to dim the light.

I "want" (this is more of an "I'd ideally like to have" list - it's short lol):

To have enough illumination (raw light if you will) to see my fox at 300 yards well enough to shoot him.

It's also important for me to have enough light to see what's behind my fox, my backstop where the bullet will go if I miss or it passes through.

Do you know if your modded light would do the above for me?

The Crelants Collimated beam is just perfect in size for my scope, I was worried that the square wouldn't fill my scope but it does that and more which is good.

I couldn't remember off the top of my head what my crelant with the collimator lens did so I just went and tested it. I have had two of these Crelants. The first one I seem to remember topping out at about 80-90Kcd. For the size of the light I thought it should have been much higher. Right after that the driver mysteriously fried with an acrid smelling smoke in the body. It was replaced with a new one but I had already written it off. The newer one I just tested did 122Kcd. Much better. Should mention that the test I did tonight had the front window removed on the Crelant as it serves absolutely no purpose other than to reduce output while my readings of the first light had that installed. Either way that is right about the same as the SmallSun I've modded so if the Crelant is not enough then the SmallSun probably wouldn't help get any more throw although my light is a neutral tint which does help. That said if you say you are experiencing a lack of light at around 120Kcd then you probably need something at least 200Kcd. The TN-31 I mod is over that by a fair margin and a neutral tint but I imagine a bit too large to gun mount.

Sadly I don't think exactly what you need is on the market right now unless the modded TN-31 is not too big. Soon though.

I need some informed thoughts to my Crelant 7g5cs with collimator head on my hunting

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