Good Thrower & Flooder.

Hi All,

Another topic by me. I am after a third light for open spaces. It's mainly fields with hills etc, but I'd really like it to throw far but still have good flood at the same time, as I want to be able to see things at a distance and often multiple things closer together, so it's important it floods a good area at distance.

Asking a bit much considering I need this to be AA and the budget below, but maybe some of you can recommend me a couple of lights to consider. Right now I don't know what will be more suited to this area considering the budget/battery type. Am I asking to much for AA?

Budget is £60 max ($95-$110 odd) Cheaper the better but would consider spending bit more if the options are limited.

Thanks.

jomox said:

Asking a bit much considering I need this to be AA and the budget below, but maybe some of you can recommend me a couple of lights to consider. Right now I don't know what will be more suited to this area considering the budget/battery type. Am I asking to much for AA?

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Depends on how much throw you want and how many AA's is the max amount that you're willing to tolerate.

asval said:

Depends on how much throw you want and how many AA's is the max amount that you're willing to tolerate.

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Thanks for the reply. As much throw as the money will get me really as I know am asking allot considering the budget (Can push up another £10 I guess) I don't mind how many AA's, as many as needed.

I did a quick look and found the below lights interesting but need to check reviews/get advise on their throw/flood. What would you recommend?

Fenix LD41
Nitecore Explorer EA4 Pioneer
Nitecore MH2A

I think the term is "Spill" not "Flood". Flood designates a beam pattern, wide angle and great area lighting. The light around the hotspot is the "Spill" light, light that isn't captured by, and is thus spilled by the reflector.

How much throw do you need? What distance are you looking for?

Remember that it takes a lot more then 2x output for one light to seem 2x brighter, and lumen is overall output and tells nothing about throw.

Gunner12 said:

I think the term is "Spill" not "Flood". Flood designates a beam pattern, wide angle and great area lighting. The light around the hotspot is the "Spill" light, light that isn't captured by, and is thus spilled by the reflector.

How much throw do you need? What distance are you looking for?

Remember that it takes a lot more then 2x output for one light to seem 2x brighter, and lumen is overall output and tells nothing about throw.

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I guess it's spill what I mean then? Sorry I'm still in the learning stage of all this flash light business, so please forgive my mistake, I thought flood was the area the light could light up around where it was shining. I understand that throw / lumen depends on the way the light is set-up though. The throw needed is as much as I can get for the money, so whatever has the longest throw (while having good spill as you say) for what I can spend.

Sorry its late here can't think very good, need to sleep. If needed I'll get a proper measurement of flood needed tomorrow.

A couple of clarifications:

A light DOES NOT have to be 2x as bright to notice a difference...that's an old wives tale...most left over from when lights were so WEAK that they had to concentrate the hot spot into a teeny hot dot...and once your eyes "had stopped down" due to the glare...sure, all the glowing dots looked the same.

Most people can tell a 10-20% change very well....and even lower differences if they see it change (A ramping light with adjustable output allows an easy demonstration of this.)

A floody light takes a lot more light than a focused beam does to cause an OBJECT to be lit up equivalently...as whatever lumens the floody beam has are spread out over a larger area.

The hot spot is the most focused central part of the beam...and what most of the the light beam's RANGE is projected by. This is expressed in terms of cd (Or Lux at 1 meter) - So if you are reading specs. Higher cd = more throw.

The corona is the less focused part of the beam that surrounds the hot spot. It is still defined in shape, and looks typically like a donut with a hot spot in the middle. This gives the beam pattern a broader but somewhat less bright illuminated area with some throw.

The spill is unfocused light...think of it as randomly "spilling" out of the reflector w/o being aimed. The spill is typically a lot wider than the corona, and is much dimmer. It will not typically have a defined shape...other than being like a dim glow outside of the corona.

So, as you are specifying a very weak (AA powered) light, and it has to be cheap, so the electronics can't compensate for the weak battery...your throw CAN be very very far if you want something like a laser pointer beam....

But your flood will be very short range...as there won't be enough power to flood a large area.

I think it would help if you continue your efforts to try to decide on how far a range is far enough, and how wide a range is wide enough...and then we can see if there's something that can give it to you under your budget...or what you'd be compromising.

I've been looking for a quality aspherical adjustable light (without luck)
My Costco has a Coast HP550 for $50 , runs on AAs. don't know if Costco around you in the UK, but the light is $75 on amazon.

This is if you like the idea of a light that has Throw OR Flood adjustablility. If Throw + Spill is OK, (and want better quality) see everyone else's suggestions. When this light adjusted to Throw it has NO SPILL.

10-20% difference in output is noticeable, but for one light to seem 2x brighter, it takes more then 2x the lumen output.

What's the minimum distance you would like? For that price, Crelant has some throwy lights, as well as Dereelight.

Great insights and information, it's greatly appreciated, learned allot more just on this thread alone.

I did some rough measurements and ideally I'd like at least 30 meters throw (But I can bare with a minimum of 20 meters) however, the longer the better. Any AA's that can throw that far with good quality? I'm counting down the meters as I don't expect to much considering the price and battery type. In the future if I need more throw I'll consider different battery type and budget.

naiter the, HP550 looks interesting but cannot find any here in the UK? 325m is allot and I'd be interested with something even at 100m if there is something.

The Eagletac D25A2 you have should throw 30m, unless you want daylight level illumination at that distance.

What size of light are you looking for? More throw means a larger reflector.

Gunner12 said:

10-20% difference in output is noticeable, but for one light to seem 2x brighter, it takes more then 2x the lumen output.

What's the minimum distance you would like? For that price, Crelant has some throwy lights, as well as Dereelight.

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The 2X brightness thing is not accurate...the shape of the beam angle is what will make it easier, or harder, to judge brightness.

Guessing what is "Twice as bright" is so subjective as to be almost meaningless in that context. We don't SEE LUMENS, we see LUX, so the LUX is what we can judge, not the lumens.

If the lumens are more concentrated, the resultant LUX is what we are judging to change in brightness...and if the lumens are more spread out, the number of them on any given target is diluted.

This is why the old wive's tales got started in the first place...as once the lux is high enough to stop down the pupils, we can't see ADDITIONAL brightness well at all...hence the perceived need for 2x etc.

In reality, again, its all about the beam angles and distribution.

If you substitute how much more you SEE, say a grid of targets and observable detail...people see twice as much with twice as much light, all else being equal....unless its an overly concentrated beam at too close a working distance for that light, etc.

For floody lights, you see a LOT more than with a concentrated beam...BECAUSE you are not glaring out the hotspot targets.

For a thrower...you'd have to test at the correct distances to SEE the differences...and you'd need the LUX at those distances to judge the "brightness".

For example, due to the inverse square law, the intensity drops off with distance dramatically. So RANGE requires a lot more light output...but, the focus, again, is more important. This is why a 131 lumen LED maglight can out throw a 750 lumen SC600, and generate a brighter hot spot, etc.

So the old rules of thumb are rather misleading. Otherwise, I would not have people say the 131 lumen maglight looks a lot brighter than the 750 lumen SC600 (They do...as they are over whelmed by the hot spot, which is "brighter"). It wasn't twice the out put that made it look brighter, as it had a small fraction of the output, let alone not being double: It was the focus.

We need new rules of thumb perhaps as we move towards beam types that do not need to be as focused to illuminate things.

Hmm.. a floody, AA light that can throw for 100 feet, and is budget priced.




Fenix E25; honkin' bright, 6K lux, 156m estimated throw, three light levels, 2 AA batteries

...all for about $35-$40 US

Just to throw something different in the mix, I bought a Thrunite T30S for $40 (ebay) plus two Eagletac 18650s and a single cell XTAR Li-ion charger (GoingGear). Total price w/shipping for all of it: $65 US (may be more where you are). The T30S is rated to run at 650L for 2.2 hrs. on a single 18650 and throw a beam 250m.

Well, my Fenix E11 (1AA) throws 30 m on low, and like 65 m on high, about $25. Nice light.

Gunner12 said:

The Eagletac D25A2 you have should throw 30m, unless you want daylight level illumination at that distance.

What size of light are you looking for? More throw means a larger reflector.

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It can throw okay but not really very good for what I need. For example it can throw that 30meter but the light is very dull from around 10m (Even on Turbo) As stated in my personal review I find it more useful at close combat situations (In the woods for me or in the house at night) it's really not very bright when it's throwing, it's only bright at very closer distances, which is why I'll sway away from similar lights like it that are recommended (Smaller I guess)

I don't mind about size, I guess I need as big as reflector as possible for the money/battery type. I guess for my situation I need it to be really bright when its throwing (At the distance) Not like a smaller reflector/tactical light handles the light at distance.

The Thrunite T30S does look interesting, but not AA (I know am being tight with the AA's but it's a personal thing) I was looking at the Nitecore Explorer EA4 Pioneer also ,but no idea how this is (Need to read up on it)

Thanks for all the responses and help again, look forward to the next recommendation.

Edit, was just reading and looking at shots of the EA4 and this looks perfect. For example the below image is more than I would expect for the money and AA:
http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s524/bear_down1/DSC05254.jpg?t=135501763

It's actually perfect for what I need considering the price and battery type. Are there any contenders to the EA4? Also the above image is a good example of what I need.

I asked my supplier and they said the EA4 is their favorite light for what I want (And one of their favorites personally) and that they can't think of anything that they sell that can match it for that size and AA powered. (I don't mind anything bigger though)

So looks like I'll go for the EA4, possibly get it next week. But I'm still open to other recommendations.

The EA4 looks good, and I would have considered it if the runtimes on "hi" had been a little longer. Since it sounds like you already have AA rechargeables, the price for the EA4 is about the same as the T30S w/the two Li-ion batteries and charger. I went the latter route due to the extended runtimes (should be 6+hrs. w/2x18650) and the lower "low". I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts once you've used it awhile. I just bought my first Nitecore light (for a gift) and I'm impressed with the quality.

dusty99 said:

The EA4 looks good, and I would have considered it if the runtimes on "hi" had been a little longer. Since it sounds like you already have AA rechargeables, the price for the EA4 is about the same as the T30S w/the two Li-ion batteries and charger. I went the latter route due to the extended runtimes (should be 6+hrs. w/2x18650) and the lower "low". I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts once you've used it awhile. I just bought my first Nitecore light (for a gift) and I'm impressed with the quality.

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Thanks for the reply.

I do have a rechargeable set-up with AA's, but they are also handy when going out for the weekend, because they are so cheap I can just chuck a load in the rucksack and know I won't run out of power. I also get a bit lazy at times when recharging as I like to be around the house when they are charging, as I don't charge when out and no one is in the home. So it's just handy having lots of AA's around (I got around 40 new spare right now) It would be a bit to expensive to do this with other battery types like 18650.

Do you have a link to any beam shots of the T30S? I'm still slightly interested in it to run with 18650, mainly because of the run time like you say. (Despite what I said above) I can a look anyway with interest.

No beamshots, sorry, although there are some from the T30 here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...e-T30-with-measurements-and-outdoor-beamshots
and the reflector appears the same. I've had it out side by side with my 47s Quark AA2 XML and Fenix TK41 and the beam shape falls right in between the floody Quark and tighter TK41. This seems in keeping with its max. beam distance rating of 250m. I didn't have any illusions that it would outperform the TK41, but that light is big enough that I don't use it as much as I should. The T30S is just a bit bigger than the 2xAA Quark and fits easily into a jacket pocket.

Alright thanks for the info appreciated. I'm ganna go with the EA4, fits me better with the AA and seems like a nice deal.