L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What's The Big Deal?

L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What\'s The Big Deal?

Okay, I'm a flashaholic like all of you. I go crazy about most new LED lights but after awhile you learn that the excitement goes away fairly quickly. I've tried all of the Surefire LED lights, (excluding the L5/L6), and I have to tell you, the L4 was the most dramatic to me. What a wonderful bright, round beam with a ton of sidespill in such a tiny package and the KL4 head is so adaptable to so many other applications.

What is causing all the hoopla concerning the L5 and L6 other than they're the latest and greatest? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif In the real world, what makes them such a big deal? They are really very large lights compared to the L4. I've seen the beam shots of the L6 and it is impressive but I've also seen modders make lights from much smaller platforms that are every bit as good.

Do they get hot from continuous use? I put a KL4 on an old, original shiny, gun metal E2 and have used it for up to 15 minutes continuous use and it barely got warm. I've read that the L6 has a pretty good throw but how much better than say, an M4 which seems to be the same size except for the turbo head?

I'm not at all slamming any of these lights but am honestly curious as to why I or anyone else should immediately run out and buy one of these "marvels" other than just adding another light to our arsenals and having the "latest and greatest"?

I'm also not defending or even comparing the L4 to these lights but I've become a fan of really small, powerful LED lights.

Re: L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What\'s The Big Deal?

Each one of those lights have their own merits. What you get with the L5, L6 are progressively tighter beams and less sidespill which amounts to more throw. Larger heads also lead to cooler running lights and presumably longer LED life because of that, or longer runtimes with less thermal concerns. The L6 also has a longer runtime per FC's findings, which one would expect from a 3 cell vs 2 cell light.

These are not for everyone obviously, it depends on what you require from your light. I find I need long throw sometimes though I do like the L4 for near field lighting and the small package but it does run a lot hotter than the L5 that I have. Different lights for different needs.

CM

Re: L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What\'s The Big Deal?

IMO, they'd be really awesome if they weren't so big and/or didn't run through batteries so fast. Otherwise, I'm not any more impressed than I am by most other modern LED lights.

(Disclaimer: I haven't seen one in person, just read about them)

I suspect the Arc LS4/5 will be the real "superlights".

Re: L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What\'s The Big Deal?

Outside the fact that I think the L6 is butt ugly. Don't know whether to turn on the switch or throw it over my head and run for cover. I was hoping that the L6 would be my first SureFire aquisition. All the speculative hype a few weeks back had me almost digging out the plastic, I am glad I didn't. I am let down thinking that the L6 would be every bit the king of throws compared to the L4 but it seems like it's sweet spot is somewhere between 15 & 20 yds which IMHO is not far at all. I say what's the point of a flashlight if one cannot see beyond 45 to 60' outside at night. The whole idea of flashlights is to extend ones night vision, right?

So for an extra $100 the big difference between the L4 and L6 is the depth of the bezel? Oh, cannot forget the better design in the heatsink. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Enough said, maybe the L7, L8, L9 or even the much talked about L10 will be my chosen one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Different strokes for different folks.

Re: L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What\'s The Big Deal?

I was just using my L5 and L6 outside - Thinking to myself what incredible lights these are! I live in the woods and these lights work incredibly well in the woods! The center hot spot pierces through the woods, between the trees, while the spill lights up a wide area with a brilliant white light! I guess the more you use them, the more you love them! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I won't be parting with mine!

Dan

Re: L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What\'s The Big Deal?

CM,
I totally agree with you in different lights for different needs. Like I said though, I have a KL4 on an old E2 shiny, gun metal body and it didn't get hot, (or even warm), in 15 minutes extended use. I don't know why the L6 would be worth the big time extra money, (even for somewhat extra throw), but to each their own. The KL5 head looks interesting though but not enough to make me sell my versatile KL4.

Dukester,
I totally agree and have said so in another thread that these things are butt ugly and not to mention BIG!

If I want to "reach out and touch something", my UBH and KT2 turbo head with an MN60 LA does the job well with less cost!

Re: L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What\'s The Big Deal?

I am thinking we are just jaded. We are spoiled by over-the-top mods. But none of the modders including myself ever said our lights came with a warranty, as they're mods, near-experimental at best. And as long as they don't arrive DOA on your doorstep you are on your own after that.

If I had to risk a lifetime warranty as SureFire does I would be much, Much, MUCH more conservative about how I design, build, and drive my mods. And the bottom line of that concept is they wouldn't be as bright.

But I am of the opinion that, again as Flashoholics we are jaded. The moment something "better" comes out we rush to buy it, wallets and wives willing. And that is why I do the right-on-the-brink thing with my mods, because by the time they (ever) burn out, there will have been a whole generation or two of better lights that came out since.

But the Surefires, Streamlights, Pelicans, UKs, PTs, and even the (*ahem*) Mags, et al, will have been passed down to a whole generation or two of our own (hopefully Flashoholicized) descendants, all still running great and STILL under warranty!

Everything is in balance, and I feel it is best to own a mix of both super high-performance mods (use frequently at your own risk), or dependable and practical LIFETIME lights offering moderate, yet well bright enough for the average Joe/Jane, performance levels.

The really good thing about mods is that we are in essence acting as a remote lab for the big players. Under intense pressure to rush new lights to market given the burgeoning pace at which LED technology is proceeding, the mfrs. don't have the time or luxury of having a few (hundred) Flashoholics test out bleeding edge flashlight technology, and they have found out (and are still discovering) all sorts of aspects to modified lights that they themselves would never have thought to test in their understandably constricted engineering division environments.

That's my take at least...

Re: L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What\'s The Big Deal?

[ QUOTE ]
Bill.H said:
I suspect the Arc LS4/5 will be the real "superlights".

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd hesitate before comparing a 9V, 5W light (L6) with a 3V, 1W light (LS4). It isn't a fair fight. Though I'm not really sure what is meant by "superlight."

Re: L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What\'s The Big Deal?

Yeah, statements like that are what made the L5 and L6 sound like huge flops to me when they finally came out.
"Throw is here, blah, blah, blah" Whatevverrrr /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
I would never buy one (L5, L6), since they don't appear to perform up to their price tag, but I think they had to be made. It's progress...

Re: L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What\'s The Big Deal?

[ QUOTE ]
MR Bulk said:
Under intense pressure to rush new lights to market given the burgeoning pace at which LED technology is proceeding

[/ QUOTE ]

Less talk, more work on Super Baby Pin! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

Re: L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What\'s The Big Deal?

[ QUOTE ]
Dukester said:
I am let down thinking that the L6 would be every bit the king of throws compared to the L4 but it seems like it's sweet spot is somewhere between 15 & 20 yds which IMHO is not far at all. I say what's the point of a flashlight if one cannot see beyond 45 to 60' outside at night. The whole idea of flashlights is to extend ones night vision, right?


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you talking about the L4 or L6? My L6 easily shines over 100'. I have some beams shots at ~80' on my website inside a gym with the lights out. In pitch dark outside with nothing but starlight the L6 will shine very far. I mean, how far do you need to see clearly anyway? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Re: L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What\'s The Big Deal?

Charlie,
That is a wonderful synopsis on what goes on here at CPF. I agree that we here on CPF are truly jaded. I am in awe of you modders and even more in awe of people like Dr. Matthews. Dr. John, who had the fortitude to risk a fortune to start a company like Surefire and offer a lifetime guarantee on truly innovative products, is to be applauded.

That's why I started this thread. If something is marginally better than exsisting products, why is the rush to buy them so great? It goes back to us being jaded and the desire to own the "latest and greatest" that transends logic. It also exhibits wonderful marketing strategy that only the internet and great forums like CPF can bring about.

I STILL want to know and will ALWAYS inquire before spending a couple of hundred dollars on something that is as insignificant as a flashlight and which is moderately better than the last model. I thank CPF for giving us the ability to ASK!

Re: L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What\'s The Big Deal?

[ QUOTE ]
Sean said:
[ QUOTE ]
Dukester said:
I am let down thinking that the L6 would be every bit the king of throws compared to the L4 but it seems like it's sweet spot is somewhere between 15 & 20 yds which IMHO is not far at all. I say what's the point of a flashlight if one cannot see beyond 45 to 60' outside at night. The whole idea of flashlights is to extend ones night vision, right?


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you talking about the L4 or L6? My L6 easily shines over 100'. I have some beams shots at ~80' on my website inside a gym with the lights out. In pitch dark outside with nothing but starlight the L6 will shine very far. I mean, how far do you need to see clearly anyway? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Sean - First I'd like to commend you on the job you have done with your website and how I view as a tool to compare different flashlight's with their different beams. I do look at it often and you have done a great service to this Board...

With that said, 80' is only 26yds and it it peanuts to what I use my flashlight for. I live in a completely rural setting on an Island in Puget Sound. With the exception of the moon (when it is out) is the only ambient light I have to deal with. I live on 40 acres with 2/3rds of it being wooded (Douglas Firs, Alders). I have 4 large dogs that I run on property for excersise sometimes up to 3 times a night. On my property it is full of wildlife, most of it being friendly some not so friendly. A Coyote by itself or even a couple of coyotes my dogs would not be in any danger, they'd handle the situation. Sometimes Coyotes run in packs and that is when I worry about my dogs. Of course it have to be a large pack say 6 to 8 Coyotes. Coyotes usually will not attack a large dog unless their pack numbers favor it/odds are stacked with them, I say usually!

I need penetrating light that will cut through brush or see what is up at the clearing a 100yds away. I am sorry but with the L6 it just wouldn't cut it! I saw Richard's backyard patio shot of an L6 hitting a line of shrubbery and that was only at 50'. Though the beam was there it just was not penetrating like the TL-3 or the M3T was. It had more of a diffused/soft beam like pattern.

The L6 is I am sure a fine flashlight for some people for others they would not have a use for it.

My signature line says it all. Around sixety five percent of the flashlight's I own are throwers of at least 100yds.

This is when I kind of chuckle to myself when I see statements made saying that "Throw is over blown", not to me by a long shot /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What\'s The Big Deal?

I trust that everyone had a nice holiday.

If you were to examine the Surefire product line from the first day they made their flashlight available for purchase, it is clear that long throw was NOT what they were going for.

Long throw requires mirrrored reflectors that will produce the rings on the light product output projected spot. Surefire incandescent flashlights, with notable exception of a small run of mirrored reflectors (I have a sample from a 6Z and the prototype Beast's), have mostly touted the "smooth beam" that is the raison d'être of the stochastic (aka orange peel) reflector.

The L4, L5, & L6 all have the latter reflector that provides the smooth output, medium range spot for applications that still center around the LE and military requirements. Though I largely suspect that the L4 targets the civilian population, the latter and larger models available at this time are meant for the folks in uniform.

When looking for incandescent flashlights that "throw" beyond 50 yards in light-polluted enviroments, look beyond Surefire, LLC. Their products are best suited for close quarters illumination.

LED flashlight technology does not currently offer a product that can out-throw incandescent lights in a mass produced format with the price category of the Streamlight Scorpion, Surefire G2, and Pelican M6.

A Surefire L4 was placed on my desk six weeks ago for eval. I have prelimary conclusions, but will wait to give a final write-up until after I thoroughly use it for at least 90 days.

I just received e-mail indicating that a L5 and L6 will arrive shortly from former colleaques whom have made private purchases. I don't have much time these days to do more thorough evals, but have not, as yet, declined to accept the task.

Those that request these evals of me use these products for a living. I cannot, in good conscience, decline their requests. I still have 4 2-CR123 powered, Xenon-bulbed incandescent lights on my desk waiting for my attention.

Re: L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What\'s The Big Deal?

[ QUOTE ]
__ said:
I trust that everyone had a nice holiday.

If you were to examine the Surefire product line from the first day they made their flashlight available for purchase, it is clear that long throw was NOT what they were going for.

Long throw requires mirrrored reflectors that will produce the rings on the light product output projected spot. Surefire incandescent flashlights, with notable exception of a small run of mirrored reflectors (I have a sample from a 6Z and the prototype Beast's), have mostly touted the "smooth beam" that is the raison d'être of the stochastic (aka orange peel) reflector.

The L4, L5, & L6 all have the latter reflector that provides the smooth output, medium range spot for applications that still center around the LE and military requirements. Though I largely suspect that the L4 targets the civilian population, the latter and larger models available at this time are meant for the folks in uniform.

When looking for incandescent flashlights that "throw" beyond 50 yards in light-polluted enviroments, look beyond Surefire, LLC. Their products are best suited for close quarters illumination.

LED flashlight technology does not currently offer a product that can out-throw incandescent lights in a mass produced format with the price category of the Streamlight Scorpion, Surefire G2, and Pelican M6.

A Surefire L4 was placed on my desk six weeks ago for eval. I have prelimary conclusions, but will wait to give a final write-up until after I thoroughly use it for at least 90 days.

I just received e-mail indicating that a L5 and L6 will arrive shortly from former colleaques whom have made private purchases. I don't have much time these days to do more thorough evals, but have not, as yet, declined to accept the task.

Those that request these evals of me use these products for a living. I cannot, in good conscience, decline their requests. I still have 4 2-CR123 powered, Xenon-bulbed incandescent lights on my desk waiting for my attention.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is this masked evil Man!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif I command you to come forth and be recognized! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What\'s The Big Deal?

[ QUOTE ]
Dukester said:
...My signature line says it all. Around sixety five percent of the flashlight's I own are throwers of at least 100yds.

...This is when I kind of chuckle to myself when I see statements made saying that "Throw is over blown", not to me by a long shot /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, and if I read the term "useable light" one more time, I'm gonna puke. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What\'s The Big Deal?

Dukester,
In your case I don't see a good reason to even consider an LED light for the type of uses you have described, except for backup. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Re: L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What\'s The Big Deal?

Sean-

I think 90% of flashaholics don't need long throw. Dukester and a couple others have consistantly asked for throw. They are in a different crowd and can clearly articulate why they NEED it.

That separates them from the rest of us for which that long throw is just a sort of mild viagra /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I'd guess half the newbies who post here their first question is what is the smallest bad a$$ flashlight that will blind my co-worker and can light up a car 200 yards away. Heck I would love an E2e size flashlight that will throw a beam 200 yards, why? Cause it would be BAD! Don't ask me what I need it for though, I have no use for it. Dang now I'm got that M3 itch again, guess I better play with my M6 for a while and I'll feel better.

GregR /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Re: L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What\'s The Big Deal?

[ QUOTE ]
Dukester said:
[ QUOTE ]
__ said:
I trust that everyone had a nice holiday.

If you were to examine the Surefire product line from the first day they made their flashlight available for purchase, it is clear that long throw was NOT what they were going for.

Long throw requires mirrrored reflectors that will produce the rings on the light product output projected spot. Surefire incandescent flashlights, with notable exception of a small run of mirrored reflectors (I have a sample from a 6Z and the prototype Beast's), have mostly touted the "smooth beam" that is the raison d'être of the stochastic (aka orange peel) reflector.

The L4, L5, & L6 all have the latter reflector that provides the smooth output, medium range spot for applications that still center around the LE and military requirements. Though I largely suspect that the L4 targets the civilian population, the latter and larger models available at this time are meant for the folks in uniform.

When looking for incandescent flashlights that "throw" beyond 50 yards in light-polluted enviroments, look beyond Surefire, LLC. Their products are best suited for close quarters illumination.

LED flashlight technology does not currently offer a product that can out-throw incandescent lights in a mass produced format with the price category of the Streamlight Scorpion, Surefire G2, and Pelican M6.

A Surefire L4 was placed on my desk six weeks ago for eval. I have prelimary conclusions, but will wait to give a final write-up until after I thoroughly use it for at least 90 days.

I just received e-mail indicating that a L5 and L6 will arrive shortly from former colleaques whom have made private purchases. I don't have much time these days to do more thorough evals, but have not, as yet, declined to accept the task.

Those that request these evals of me use these products for a living. I cannot, in good conscience, decline their requests. I still have 4 2-CR123 powered, Xenon-bulbed incandescent lights on my desk waiting for my attention.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is this masked evil Man!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif I command you to come forth and be recognized! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Flashlight rookies. Don't you just love 'em!

Re: L5, L6. The Hype Is Out. What\'s The Big Deal?

Dukester definately has a special need. I'd be grateful it can be met with a hand-held light. However, I find the turbo-heads too needle-like in their beam to be useful at extreme range. In fact, the wider beam of the LED is so much more useful to me than most incansdescents, at any range.