ILLUMINATION OR DARKNESS?

THE TWO CLASHING WORLDS OF ILLUMINATION VERSUS DARKNESS!!

The Title is the question/topic! It is a personal choice, a matter of preference, no right or wrong.

With that said, sometimes these Two opposite worlds clash!

What the Hell is the OP talking about?!!

Here is the deal,,,,,,,,, I have Three[3] alternating night walks with Capo, my Siberian Husky. Two are on hiking trails and the other on a dirt road that sees minimal cars. This thread applies to the Two hiking trail walks.

So, you have people who use flashlights like most of us on CPF and you have others who choose to walk, run or ride a bike in complete darkness! About half the time I do not see One person, other nights I may see a few and rarely do I see more than Three[3] people.

Both trail walks are almost Four[4] miles and take me about 65/70 minutes.

Both trail walks are along a creek and a river. There are curves in the trail but also some straight aways Five Hundred plus yards[457m] long.

When someone has a light I can see them from a long way.Once I notice them and until they pass me I keep my light ~ 30 Degree angle towards the ground. I never had one issue with a person who had a light,,,,,only admiration and awe once I demonstrated the torches power[mostly modded lights] with those who were walking and chatted with me!

Lately it seems there are just as many people who choose "NO ILLUMINATION" . The problem/difficulty is that I can not see these people until I see them! That is usually around 100[91m] to 200[182m] Yards away unless there is a curve and then all of the sudden they are there!

These are powerful torches that I have, even my back ups that start the mini hike.Most are modded and even the stock torches are no slouches! So,Unless Capo sees/smells an animal they are usually shined straight ahead.

I take the light and point it towards the ground once I locate these people.When they pass by me sometimes I say , sorry, I could not see you. Other times I say nothing and respond only if they say something.

On rare occasions I get someone who is not too happy and I simply say, I am sorry, When you do not have a light I can not see you until I see you!

It really surprises me how many people are on these extremely dark hiking trails with very little and mostly no light pollution and they do it without any illumination. Maybe it is because I am a flashaholic now!

The good news with colder weather around the corner is that most of these people will be gone. Especially in the winter. :thumbsup:

I guess the bottom line is to respect each others choices and to try to diffuse any conflict that may arise! Either that or drive 45 minutes to the Mountains where there will be not one soul,,,,,,,,then I will will get eaten by a Bear!

It is polite of you to point it toward the ground. I guess similar to turning off your car high beams when another car is approaching.

If it is REALLY dark, another problem I can see with people that don't have a light is the creepy feeling others would get. If I was out in the woods or even a road with noone around and some guy was running towards me without a light, I would feel uneasy. However, if he had a light or was lit up with ambient light so I could identify him as a runner/jogger, I would feel much better.

BTW a section of road where I usually run recently installed street lights...bummer! I liked running in the dark with a headlamp.

markr6 said:

It is polite of you to point it toward the ground. I guess similar to turning off your car high beams when another car is approaching.

If it is REALLY dark, another problem I can see with people that don't have a light is the creepy feeling others would get. If I was out in the woods or even a road with noone around and some guy was running towards me without a light, I would feel uneasy. However, if he had a light or was lit up with ambient light so I could identify him as a runner/jogger, I would feel much better.

BTW a section of road where I usually run recently installed street lights...bummer! I liked running in the dark with a headlamp.

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Thanks!!

I totally agree about the creepy part!!I forgot to mention that.

Sometimes, especially a biker or someone running coming from behind me. All of the sudden they are there! It startles me and Capo!

Good thread topic.

I suspect that those people without lights are more likely unprepared, and have been caught out with the sun setting earlier than the expected. It is creepy to be moving about in total darkness on public land.

It is one thing to go to a dark area and allow your eyes to dark adapt for the purpose of astronomical observation, but a completely different one to walk about in areas that could result in you stumbling into unseen hazards however well your eyes are adapted.

If caught out, and needing to get home, it may be that the non-illuminated person gets annoyed at your bright lights as it means that their dark adapted vision will be compromised. That is their fault, not yours.

It is entirely reasonable for you to use your lights and to act considerately as soon as you notice another person (lit or unlit). It is not reasonable for them to complain about you (IMO). In fact you would have more right to complain about them startling you than they do about you using a light.

There are times when I'm covering ground on my shooting permissions with no lights on at all. This is on private property, and for safety reasons I am the only person allowed on the property that evening. Even like this I feel a bit creepy moving about with no lights (until I switch on the gun lamp that is). In this scenario I am acting as a predator which means I am actually being 'creepy' for real and on purpose. If not hunting, I would use a light to see by and be seen by.

Thanks subwoofer and markr6 for the input.

I believe us flashaholics/flashlight lovers are more realistic and logical people, especially when it comes to navigating in the dark!

I have only encountered a few people over the 2 years or so[7 nights a week unless torrential rain!] who seemed to be irritated by my torches!! Of course they had no type of lighting tool! I told them, I can't see you until I see you!! Like you said subwoofer,,,,,it is not reasonable for them to complain,what am I to do, I can not see them until I see them!

They are fortunate that I usually notice them from 100/200 yards away! Imagine getting blasted by a OSTS TN31mb, K40vn or TK61vn from 50 Ft. away?!! Hell my M3X stock is a very bright light,,,in fact that was the light where this runner complained the other night. He was about 150 yards away when I noticed him!The complainers and non complainers have one thing in common if they choose to say something to me. Wow, that is a bright light!!!! They all are,my stock and my modded lights!

Capolini said:

I have only encountered a few people over the 2 years or so[7 nights a week unless torrential rain!] who seemed to be irritated by my torches!!

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I'll always have one...my wife! :laughing: But that is usually my fault.

I don't think there is anything wrong with choosing to go out in the dark...why shouldn't they? I mean, if someone is walking on a dark road, and not yielding to cars (who may or may not see them in time), that is one thing. But walking, on a dirt path? I don't see the problem. I'm a fan of lights too, but it isn't compulsory.

That said, you are correct that they shouldn't get too bothered by your lights. Just as they are allowed to go without, you are allowed to bring whatever lighting you choose. And it seems you are already being courteous, pointing down and trying to minimize the impact you have on other people's ability to see.

QUOTE=Capolini;4506645]Thanks subwoofer and markr6 for the input.

I believe us flashaholics/flashlight lovers are more realistic and logical people, especially when it comes to navigating in the dark!

I have only encountered a few people over the 2 years or so[7 nights a week unless torrential rain!] who seemed to be irritated by my torches!! Of course they had no type of lighting tool! I told them, I can't see you until I see you!! Like you said subwoofer,,,,,it is not reasonable for them to complain,what am I to do, I can not see them until I see them!

They are fortunate that I usually notice them from 100/200 yards away! Imagine getting blasted by a OSTS TN31mb, K40vn or TK61vn from 50 Ft. away?!! Hell my M3X stock is a very bright light,,,in fact that was the light where this runner complained the other night. He was about 150 yards away when I noticed him!The complainers and non complainers have one thing in common if they choose to say something to me. Wow, that is a bright light!!!! They all are,my stock and my modded lights!

[/QUOTE]
The more powerful your light, the more responsibility comes with it. Would not want to harm or frighten anyone with a powerful thrower.

I'm not as dedicated a night dog walker as Capolini is, but when I do, I usually take 2 lights - a small, relatively dim floody light and a thrower. I walk in the paths through the farm fields, orchards and vineyards by my house and need the floody light to avoid horse cookies. I bring the thrower mostly for fun and in case there are foxes about. I am always surprised when I come across people without lights - how do they keep their shoes clean? I commend Capolini, not only for his dedicated night dog walking, but for pointing his lights at the ground when he comes across people. That is courteous and gives a good name for us flashaholics.

I walk my pup at night also, and find that using only the amount of light necessary with occasional bursts just for fun works nicely. I also not only lower, but DIM my light as to not annoy others... I can always grab a higher level if needed, but once you blind someone the damage is done as far as their attitude goes. Nobody at 100-200 yards poses a threat to you or your dog, and painting them with 2000 lumens once you know they are there is probably not too neighborly. Unless this is your property, you have as much responsibility to be courteous as they do...

scout24 comment:

Nobody at 100-200 yards poses a threat to you or your dog, and painting them with 2000 lumens once you know they are there is probably not too neighborly. Unless this is your property, you have as much responsibility to be courteous as they do...
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You must have misunderstood what I said!

I said I can USUALLY notice them[people w/ no lights] from about 100/200 yards away. Then I point the light towards the ground until they pass. I do NOT paint them w/ 2000 lumens once I notice them!

Even your stock lights are more powerful than most people are used to.

tialini said:

Even your stock lights are more powerful than most people are used to.

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Ok,so what are you suggesting, that I walk in the dark like them!

My only responsibility is once I notice these people who choose NOT to have a light, I take the light off of them!

I have a right to enjoy my hobby as they have a right to walk/run ect. in complete darkness!!

I am suggesting that the brightness of your lights may be the cause of the complaints. People may be a little afraid of how powerful they are.
:candle:

tialini said:

I am suggesting that the brightness of your lights may be the cause the complaints, because people may be a little afraid of how powerful they are.
:candle:

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ok,,,and my complaint to them is if you HAD a light it would never have been temporarily shined on you!

By the way,your lease is up at midnight!! lol!!! :nana::shakehead

A walker moving without a light can make it easier for both you and themselves if they wear or carry some retroreflective material.
You will be able to see them at a minimum of twice the distance. Greater than that with the increase in contrast to their surroundings.
It will also serve them well when they walk along or cross a road.

inetdog said:

A walker moving without a light can make it easier for both you and themselves if they wear or carry some retroreflective material.
You will be able to see them at a minimum of twice the distance. Greater than that with the increase in contrast to their surroundings.
It will also serve them well when they walk along or cross a road.

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Agreed!

I minority of these walkers do have reflective sneakers or other reflective attire. I can notice them from a few hundred yards,however, if it is just their sneakers sometimes it is hard to tell if it is a person or an animals[Opossum/Raccoon/Fox] Eyes!

Like subwoofer said,,,some of these people are caught exercising after dark.I also head out as soon as it gets dark With the exception of the late Fall and Winter.

I did not misunderstand you. Maybe I presumed that you lit them up on HIGH and just angled the light away a bit while still on high. Do you dim, or just angle your light away? Even in the spill beam of high powered lights, there is an obnoxious amount of light. Is this public area, or your property? I am suggesting it is as much your responsibility to be judicious with the output you choose even if you feel you have the right to enjoy OUR hobby. My example is damn knuckleheaded teenagers who blast their music in their cars. Yes, I was one. Not the way to get off on the best foot with other people. OUR "right"? Perhaps. Others have the same right to enjoy public areas at night undisturbed. Maybe have a companion walk out 100-200 yards and hit you with the light you use to get an idea of what others are seeing, to maybe adjust your angle or brightness used.

These are HIKING TRAILS in a County/State Park where NO ONE is suppose to be after dark!!!! We are ALL at fault! I would have to travel about 45/60 minutes to the Appalachian trail for total seclusion!

As soon as I notice someone without a light I not only angle it I turn it down to its lowest or second lowest setting. My fault for not mentioning that in the OP.

Perhaps it's a matter of my environment - the never really dark suburbs - but walking on paths at night without a light source out and burning is quite the norm. It's rare to see a pedestrian with a light on paved trails ... seems like it's only the dog walkers that routinely carry light at all. On my bike, I have occasionally come across people that feel compelled to continuously spotlight me as I ride past ... because passing them on the far side of the trail I must not have seen them?

While I generally have a light on me, I rarely use it and - even in the diffuse dim light of the 'burbs - can typically see well enough for navigation without. In the more isolated stretches it's really a matter of terrain and overall visibility as to whether or not a light is called for.

Distressingly, I find that a number of cyclists opt not to sport a headlight (or if they do, it's barely adequate as even a daylight marker). Moving at >4x the speed of a typical pedestrian, you need the enhanced visibility for yourself and the benefit of others. I rode without a bike headlight once and nearly got run over by a driver who saw me (eye contact), but either failed to process that I was on a bike in the road or just assumed I'd get out of their way in spite of having right of way.