Maha C9000 overcharging during break in?

Hi, I bought a Maha C9000 after so many user's here seemed to rave about it. It appears to be a very nice charger/analizer. This is my first experience with rechargeable batteries and the break in process on batteries. So yesterday I started performing a discharge and break in on some of my new Duracell ion core batteries. I have noticed the mah is over 3400 being put in to the batteries. Is this normal? I discharged them at 500mah before starting the break in cycle. The batteries had from 970-1000 mah removed during the discharge. Am I killing my batteries? Any help would greatly be appreciated.

Hello Jwag73,

Welcome to CPF.

The Break In process is designed to overcharge cells but to do so with a low enough current and a short enough duration as to not damage the cells. When you select Break In you are asked to input the capacity of the cell. The charger then charges at 0.1 times that for a timed 16 hours.

Tom

SilverFox said:

Hello Jwag73,

Welcome to CPF.

The Break In process is designed to overcharge cells but to do so with a low enough current and a short enough duration as to not damage the cells. When you select Break In you are asked to input the capacity of the cell. The charger then charges at 0.1 times that for a timed 16 hours.

Tom

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Thank you for the reply SilverFox, I also did some more research and found the FAQ page for Maha. I was worried and wanted to try the Duracell 's before my Eneloop's.

SilverFox said:

Hello Jwag73,

Welcome to CPF.

The Break In process is designed to overcharge cells but to do so with a low enough current and a short enough duration as to not damage the cells. When you select Break In you are asked to input the capacity of the cell. The charger then charges at 0.1 times that for a timed 16 hours.

Tom

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Is that a safe limit for LSD batteries, like Eneloops? IIRC, didn't you test trickle-charging with Eneloops, and concluded that they were much more sensitive (i.e., damaged) than non LSD batteries? The C-9000 was probably developed for non LSD batteries, but does the same charging method apply to current LSD technology?

jwag73 said:

Hi, I bought a Maha C9000 .... I started performing a discharge and break in on some of my new Duracell ion core batteries. ....

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If these batteries are new you should probably not be running them through break-in, since the LSD cells have shown to be good right out of the box why waste/stress the cells and waste time doing a break-in.

StandardBattery said:

If these batteries are new you should probably not be running them through break-in, since the LSD cells have shown to be good right out of the box why waste/stress the cells and waste time doing a break-in.

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I read here that some folks run a discharge cycle on their new batteries, followed by a break in. I recorded the discharge capacity, ran the break in on my first set of batteries, and recorded the final charge capacity. I thought it may help the batteries settle into their overall or average mah. I paired the cells closest in rating. I thought this may help when using them in devices that required two or more cells in regards to battery life and performance. This is my first time using rechargeable AA/AAA batteries. I've been researching the best batteries and chargers for a few weeks, with what I consider the most useful information coming from this forum. I knew the cheap stuff wouldn't be economical in the long run, so I wanted to start with the best equipment within my budget. I kept reading that the Maha C9000 and Eneloop's were highly regarded by almost all who owned them. I bought the C9000 a BC700, some Eneloop's and Duracell's. I was honestly wanting to keep track of my batteries from the time new, to when they begin to lose performance. I also was curious just how long they really held their charge when not in use. I'm a little nerdy like that.

jwag73 said:

I read here that some folks run a discharge cycle on their new batteries, followed by a break in. I recorded the discharge capacity, ran the break in on my first set of batteries, and recorded the final charge capacity. I thought it may help the batteries settle into their overall or average mah. I paired the cells closest in rating. I thought this may help when using them in devices that required two or more cells in regards to battery life and performance. This is my first time using rechargeable AA/AAA batteries. I've been researching the best batteries and chargers for a few weeks, with what I consider the most useful information coming from this forum. I knew the cheap stuff wouldn't be economical in the long run, so I wanted to start with the best equipment within my budget. I kept reading that the Maha C9000 and Eneloop's were highly regarded by almost all who owned them. I bought the C9000 a BC700, some Eneloop's and Duracell's. I was honestly wanting to keep track of my batteries from the time new, to when they begin to lose performance. I also was curious just how long they really held their charge when not in use. I'm a little nerdy like that.

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OK you've done your homework so carry on. Some of your information may have been a little dated, seems like the concensus for LSD cells is just use them right out of the box. If the cells are new I'm not sure the analysis features of these chargers are accurate enough to pair up cells and make a notable difference. Still if you want to have some numbers from when they are new to keep in your log then I can see doing what you are doing. When I had time for such things I would have done that.

I will definitely note that the break in isn't needed for any of the batteries I've purchased. I appreciate the help.

Quick question.
Did you tell the charger the milliamp rating of the battery before starting the cycle?
If not, read the Maha spec sheet for the break-in cycle.

I programmed the discharge rate, as well as the battery mah for the break in cycle. I discharged at 500mah and programmed 2400 as that what's the batteries are. I was wondering if I should have discharged at a lower rate? I'll just use them as previously recommended, and refresh throughout the year as needed.

I use 200 mAh as my discharged rate on Eneloop AA batteries. Mine are 4th gen and are only rated 2000 mAh.
The charger typically shows around 2850 mAh before staring the second discharge and recharge cycle.

I'm planning on the refresh cycle at around 25 charge cycles.

NoNotAgain said:

I use 200 mAh as my discharged rate on Eneloop AA batteries. Mine are 4th gen and are only rated 2000 mAh.
The charger typically shows around 2850 mAh before staring the second discharge and recharge cycle.

I'm planning on the refresh cycle at around 25 charge cycles.

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Thanks for the info. I'll use the 200ma as a discharge in the future. I was a little concerned with the break in charge mah rating being soo high, but I'm finding it's normal, thanks again.

SilverFox said:

Hello Jwag73,

Welcome to CPF.

The Break In process is designed to overcharge cells but to do so with a low enough current and a short enough duration as to not damage the cells. When you select Break In you are asked to input the capacity of the cell. The charger then charges at 0.1 times that for a timed 16 hours.

Tom

Click to expand...

WalkIntoTheLight said:

Is that a safe limit for LSD batteries, like Eneloops? IIRC, didn't you test trickle-charging with Eneloops, and concluded that they were much more sensitive (i.e., damaged) than non LSD batteries? The C-9000 was probably developed for non LSD batteries, but does the same charging method apply to current LSD technology?

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Yeah i'm wondering the same thing. It might be more beneficial to older cells that has lost capacity and i have noticed that older HSD cells benefit more from slightly overcharging them when they are being refreshed. Most have said LSD NiMHs are fine trickle charging for no more than a few hours, i don't even leave them on when they are finished charging. I will leave them trickle charge for about 20-30 minutes before refreshing and that seems to work fine for all my LSD cells. If you refresh the batteries and notice a decrease in capacity, it might be beneficial to leave them trickle charge longer or use the break in feature on the C-9000. I've actually tested this with the Energizer 2500mAh AA cells, they retain better sitting on trickle charging for about a day, versus taking them out when they hit -dV.

As for the OP question. I am not sure whether a break in is necessary, but the idea behind it is to get the cells active. If they have trouble maintaining charge or if they lacked capacity then i think a break in would be ideal but i have some Ion Core Duracells that are at least a year old and they didn't need refreshing. The LSD 2300mAh Energizers i got, i had to run them through a refresh. They would definitely benefit from a break in (i don't have the C-9000), but i'll settle with letting them trickle charge for about 3 to 4 hours and see whether they improve capacity.

jwag73 said:

I discharged at 500mah and programmed 2400 as that what's the batteries are. I was wondering if I should have discharged at a lower rate?

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Panasonic drain with a 0.2C discharge rate before the initial break-in during the cycle Test down to 1.0 volt. That corresponds to approximately 500 mA for eneloop pro cells.
In all the following break-ins (every 50th cycle) the discharge rate is 0.25C or approximately 600 mA before the break-ins.

Hello WalkIntoTheLight,

WalkIntoTheLight said:

Is that a safe limit for LSD batteries, like Eneloops? IIRC, didn't you test trickle-charging with Eneloops, and concluded that they were much more sensitive (i.e., damaged) than non LSD batteries? The C-9000 was probably developed for non LSD batteries, but does the same charging method apply to current LSD technology?

Click to expand...

Yes the Break In is safe for LSD cells. To make it even safer you can do a discharge prior to applying the Break In.

Actually the C-9000 was designed with LSD cells in mind. They were just coming out when it was introduced. As a result the trickle charge rate after the charge has completed is lower than most chargers.

And Yes the LSD cells can be damaged by long term (like over 1 week) of trickle charging. The higher the trickle charge rate the faster the damage occurs. This also applies to the C-9000. However, this is not an issure during the Break In.

This is why we suggest taking cells off a charger after the charge is complete.

Tom