Beam intensity confusion??

bartonjd · Sep 25, 2016

I have been researching the Niteye EC-R16 & EC-R26 and noticed tonight that the R26 which is 1000 lumens has only half the cd value of the Nitecore MH20.

EC-R26 CD: 6010
MH20 CD: 12500

Why is this? Does this mean it would be better to save my pennies and get the MH20?

Thanks guys!

FlashKat · Sep 25, 2016

You might as well get the Nitecore MH20GT.
It really depends if you want throw, or flood.

MAD777 · Sep 25, 2016

Lumens is the measure of total light coming out in all directions. CD (or lux) is the intensity of light along the center of the beam only. CD (or lux) can be thought of as the concentration of the total lumens at the center of the beam.

So, high lumens & low lux is a flooder.
Low lumens with high lux is a pencil beam thrower.

bartonjd · Sep 25, 2016

So if I wanted something that gave a reasonable amount of light up close but focused more lighting up the next 100m in front of me would something in between the Te'o mentioned, say 9000cd be appropriate?

FlashKat · Sep 25, 2016

It would help to know what you want to use it for. Depending on the type of LED, reflector, etc, it makes a difference on how the beam shines. 100m is not that far, but even with a 1000 lumens, a shallow orange peel reflector the light will not light up an object that well.

bartonjd · Sep 25, 2016

I have the EC-R16 but have been a little disappointed in how well it lights up a distant object, not super distant mind you. I will mostly use it for walking in and outdoors at night when on call for security. I wanted to find a light that fits comfortably in the pocket. I hope I explained that alright.

FlashKat · Sep 25, 2016

The EC-R26 would not be much better.
I would consider a light with more throw as you can use a lower level to use up close, and use high for throw.
The Nitecore MH20 would be a good choice, but Nitecore sometimes has quality issues.
The Lumintop SD Mini would also be a good choice, but mine has a parasitic battery drain where my battery is dead in one day unless you unscrew the tailcap a 1/4 turn.

bartonjd said:
I have the EC-R16 but have been a little disappointed in how well it lights up a distant object, not super distant mind you. I will mostly use it for walking in and outdoors at night when on call for security. I wanted to find a light that fits comfortably in the pocket. I hope I explained that alright.

terjee · Sep 25, 2016

In addition to throw vs. flood, there's also the question of how much spill there is to a throwy light for example. And is it gradual between the center, or is the center distinct, and so on.

One light that might be worthwhile to consider, is the Klarus XT11S. A lot of people (myself included) are quite happy with it. The mix is gorgeous, with a throwy senter, yet enough spill that there's more than enough light up close. I wouldn't want it for a pure indoors light (needlessly bright center). For longer distances though, the bright center gives you enough range, while the spill avoids "tunnel vision". Perfect for both outside and mixed usage. Also allows you to go directly to high, low, memory and strobe, depending on what you need.

ven · Sep 25, 2016

Just to add......Check the reflectors of the lights out to from the manufacturers sites(or on here if available). Larger LED's (like an xhp70 )dont throw as far as smaller ones( like xp-g2's as a couple of examples). Then reflector size, shallow will flood, deep will throw. Larger the diameter then the more focused the light, complement it with a deep reflector and you can have some serious throw.

vadimax · Sep 25, 2016

Take into consideration the overall light size. If you are going to use it for throw it requires a significant amount of heat dissipated. Small and powerful light is not a working solution.

bykfixer · Sep 25, 2016

Basically,

A CD (candela) number indicates how brightly the light shines at a given distance.

Think about it like this...
At say 100' (30m) a 9000 cd light shining on an object would light it up about as brightly as 9000 candles.
A 12000 cd would be as bright as...12000 candles.

The lux indicates how much light is reflected off said wall. A shiney white wall will reflect way more light back than a dull black wall.
The lux potential is better with a higher candela light at a distance.

But keep in mind the higher candela light will be bouncing way more light back at you when it hits close up objects.

Now, a wide spot with a lot of spill will light your path very well. So if you move around a lot that is a good combo.
A narrow pencil beam is great for say, hunters who want to shine a narrow beam a long ways to spot the prey without being surround by night vision killing spill.

For general use, say mostly indoors or needing less than 75' of throw a lower cd light will provide an overall diffuse light. That is ideal if it is used mainly for close up situations.

The smaller the reflector diameter is the harder it is to get a good combination of spot vs spill. A 1.25" (18650 sized) reflector will be easier to provide a good combo than a double a sized reflector.

Bottom line is each size, style and level of output is a compromise of spot vs spill. And candela numbers are a pretty good indicator of how the designer 'compromised' between flood, combo, or thrower beams.

scs · Sep 25, 2016

bykfixer said:
Basically,

A CD (candela) number indicates how brightly the light shines at a given distance.

Think about it like this...
At say 100' (30m) a 9000 cd light shining on an object would light it up about as brightly as 9000 candles.
A 12000 cd would be as bright as...12000 candles.

The lux indicates how much light is reflected off said wall. A shiney white wall will reflect way more light back than a dull black wall.
The lux potential is better with a higher candela light at a distance.

But keep in mind the higher candela light will be bouncing way more light back at you when it hits close up objects.

Now, a wide spot with a lot of spill will light your path very well. So if you move around a lot that is a good combo.
A narrow pencil beam is great for say, hunters who want to shine a narrow beam a long ways to spot the prey without being surround by night vision killing spill.

For general use, say mostly indoors or needing less than 75' of throw a lower cd light will provide an overall diffuse light. That is ideal if it is used mainly for close up situations.

The smaller the reflector diameter is the harder it is to get a good combination of spot vs spill. A 1.25" (18650 sized) reflector will be easier to provide a good combo than a double a sized reflector.

Bottom line is each size, style and level of output is a compromise of spot vs spill. And candela numbers are a pretty good indicator of how the designer 'compromised' between flood, combo, or thrower beams.

9000 cd at 30m means only 10 lux on target. That's only 10 lumens per sq meter.
Lux usually indicates brightness on target, not reflected back.

bartonjd · Sep 25, 2016

So does It make more sense to get a mid range cd light like the EC-R26 which doesn't throw as far or some other pocketable light I don't know about and buy a bigger light with further throw to keep in the car for occasions when throw is important?

Overclocker · Sep 25, 2016

bartonjd said:
So does It make more sense to get a mid range cd light like the EC-R26 which doesn't throw as far or some other pocketable light I don't know about and buy a bigger light with further throw to keep in the car for occasions when throw is important?

i carry the still excellent zebralight sc62w which actually throws less than the EC-R26. when i need longer reach i grab the Olight M2X-UT or acebeam K70

EC-R26 is fine for everyday use. i like the shallow reflector which gives a very wide spillbeam

scs · Sep 25, 2016

bartonjd said:
So does It make more sense to get a mid range cd light like the EC-R26 which doesn't throw as far or some other pocketable light I don't know about and buy a bigger light with further throw to keep in the car for occasions when throw is important?

For general purpose use, get a general purpose light with a balanced beam, typically below 20,000 CD for me. Wide and bright enough spill for close up use but still with sufficient throw. When you start imagining scenarios at both extremes, then no single light will be good enough, except for perhaps a zoomie, which has other compromises. Any light is good until it's not good enough for the task at hand, so keep at least 2 lights in your car if you must, one of them a thrower and the other a floody or semi floody.

bykfixer · Sep 25, 2016

scs said:
9000 cd at 30m means only 10 lux on target. That's only 10 lumens per sq meter.
.

What's your point?

bartonjd · Sep 25, 2016

Thank you all for the explanations and advice! I think I'll probably get the R26 for my edc unless I can find something with built in USB and I will look st the options you suggested to get lights for my car

bykfixer · Sep 25, 2016

Good choice.

FlashKat · Sep 25, 2016

As long as you are happy with carrying 2 lights to do the task required.
I suggested the Nitecore & Lumintop, since they both throw farther and still pocketable.
Another light to think about is the Acebeam T16S.
I have an Acebeam EC32 to is similar to EC-R26, and I am needing something to throw just a little farther. I am waiting to find the right light that I know will be good for my requirements without having to always rely on 2 different lights.
I am going to see if my Acebeam EC60 will be pocketable, but it is a larger light.

bartonjd said:
So does It make more sense to get a mid range cd light like the EC-R26 which doesn't throw as far or some other pocketable light I don't know about and buy a bigger light with further throw to keep in the car for occasions when throw is important?

scs · Sep 25, 2016

bykfixer said:
What's your point?

Your reference to 9000 candles.

Beam intensity confusion??

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