Surefire Crenelated Bezel

Hi guys,

This question is not directed at Surefire but I was curious about the whole concept of this crenelated bezel (or strike bezel) from Surefire for defensive purposes.

My theory is this, if an attacker comes to you and is hit back with your strike bezel, wouldn't it enrage him even more to get on your back too? IMHO, the crenelated bezel is not even an incapacitation tool.

What are your views and opinions?? If any of you disagree, I would very much like to hear your views. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Andy Ho

Personally, I think it's cosmetic, and solely for the purpose to sell more lights. I don't see a realistic defensive purpose for it.

-dan

Though I am a big Surefire fan, I don`t like them at all, and think it`s just a passing craze. My collection will never include a "crenelated" model.

In the hands of someone who has extensive training in hand-to-hand combat, something like the E2D could be very effective as a self defence tool. But even a regular E2e would make for a decent enough kubaton-type impact weapon if you know how to use it correctly.

Marketing the E2D at the general public (evident by their sending one each to two of CPF`s consumer reviewers, among other things) is a mistake in my opinion as it is highly unlikely most will be able to use it effectively. I agree with your theory - prod an attacker with the "Executive Defender" and it`ll only make them mad. It even encourages the victim to want to stay and fight back instead of doing the sensible thing of trying to get away from them. Add the increased chance of everyday personal discomfort from having the teeth bite into your butt when you sit down, and I just think it`s a silly idea.

I could say - I know I don`t have to buy one so I shouldn`t worry about it. But they are going to change most of the M series to have these points around the bezels - they aready have with the M3. What if I lose or break my M3 and have to buy a new one? I now have no choice but to have it complete with teeth, which incidentally will be classified as an offensive weapon by the police here and taken from me if I`m found carrying one.

No thanks, at least until this fad passes I`ll have to be careful with my M3, and if it does need replacing, I`ll have to spend time trying to find a toothless original version. Glad I bought my M4 and M6 before this desigh change comes in to production.


These things have law-suit written all over them.....

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

The crenelated bezel would seem to have some value for professionsl military and security use, but for general civilian use it would seem to be more harmful than helpful to the wielder as a weapon, as you pointed out.

A mild crenelation might be useful to tell whether or not the light is on when it has been placed on the bezel. I was somewhat surprised to find that my SF L1 has a slight crenelation on the bezel that had not registered with me before all the chatter about it on CPF. It certainly does not appear threatening since it is only noticeable if you really look at the bezel.

The "mild crenelation" you mention is called "scalloping" and is a useful feature indeed. Though I can`t recall leaving a flashlight turned on while placed face down, it does happen. When your flashlight is hot enough to burn things it could be potentially dangerous so a way to spot a potential problem before the familiar smell of burning fills the air is a valuable addition.

-

Apparently SureFire make several products exclusively for the military and proffessionals, such as the "Beast" HID lamp, which don`t get in to the catalogs. The general public usually never get to see or hear about them presumably as they are sufficiently exotic, expensive or potentially dangerous as to be a problem to supply to us lot. I think these "impact bezels" should be one of those products. Those that need them will know about them and can buy them. The rest of the world has nothing to worry about.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

I saw an M3 in a local shop here in Singapore. I think it looks good with the crenelation but if you ask me which I would prefer I would without doubt direct my preferences towards the old bezel design. I honestly think that the crenelation is nothing more than a design hype by Surefire to boost their product sales. Not many people would continue buying the same flashlight and so the only way to keep their production running is to redesign a little here and there to boost sales, though this may only be an asumption of mine.

Is there anyone else with an opinion?

Andy Ho

I agree that the new bezel design is mostly hype. I guess you could do some dammage with the new bezel, but most people will buy it for the looks.

I do have a bit of issue with these comments:

[ QUOTE ]
My theory is this, if an attacker comes to you and is hit back with your strike bezel, wouldn't it enrage him even more to get on your back too? IMHO, the crenelated bezel is not even an incapacitation tool.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with your theory - prod an attacker with the "Executive Defender" and it`ll only make them mad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess you guys are saying "run away" if attacked? Not a bad idea. However, you both mention an "attacker" and you are affraid of upsetting him. If you are being attacked use anything you can as a weapon. If you are just talking about a mugging where someone says,"give me your wallet", fine give him your wallet. If you, or worse your wife or child, are being attacked fight back with anything you have. If someone is attacking you, they are already upset.

Just my opinion

Wick

The problem for 'Mr or Mrs Average'is that he/she is not used to violence or how to retaliate if violence is used against him/her .Crime statistics in the UK suggest that most people do not fight back or claim that they had no time to do so at the time an attack took place. The whole purpose of an impact weapon is to enable the user to deliver a painful injury to a specific body part. For the majority of people that would not be possible in a quickly developing violent situation. In any case the use or indeed carrying of the SF E2D in the UK is dubious to say the least? I suspect that a court of law over here may well see the E2D as an offensive weapon anyway and would order it's destruction and the owner liable to a fine and criminal record.
At present I cannot see SF selling these lights in the UK as
they are manufactured specifically with the purpose of being able to impart an injury by the user and would probably not get past UK customs. This doesn't mean that I am against them, rather the contrary, I would like to see this light on sale but over here i think that would be unlikely.

Doug

Of course, if you`re already engaged with someone who`s attacking you, fight back if you can, with what you can. It makes sense.

I guess my use of the term "attacker" in my original message was wrong. My objection to the concept of the likes of the Executive Defender comes from what might happen to someone who bought one of them recently "for self defence" then gets confronted by someone up to no good. The mugger for example, or someone full of drink or drugs looking for a fight. Thinking they can handle the situation and come out on top, the E2D owner might be more inclined to stand their ground and try to fight, then end up worse off than if they`d just legged it or handed over their Visa cards.

I`m not a self defence expert, but selling something rather specialised as a self defence tool to people who won`t have the training or knowledge on how to correctly use it, just seems wrong to me.

In countries like mine where the public are allowed nothing more than quick wits and a heavy fist for self defence, a device like the E2D is viewed as an offensive weapon. And in this ridiculous world where criminals are better protected than victims, you could land up with jail time if you struck back at someone with one. It could even be viewed as "pre-meditated" - after all, you bought this thing designed to hit someone with and cause pain, then carried it with you especially for that purpose. You can`t argue that it was just a flashlight you had to light the way, which you could do if you whumped someone with a Mag /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

The military probably don`t have that problem, which is why I think these things should be reserved for them alone. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Im not 100% sure about this, but i think if you thumped someone with a maglite you happened to be carrying, then in the eyes of the law, it becomes an offensive weapon. In fact, this applies to nearly any object you might hit someone with.
But i agree that the porcupine type bezels are asking for trouble (here in the UK anyway).

I'm not in the UK, but my reading of these laws a while ago left me with the impression that it depends on the intent and situation. Carrying something designed or sold for self-defense would be a no-no. A 6D Maglite would be OK, as long as it was dark out--no wandering around a high noon with a 3 pound flashlight. I suppose the same would apply to something like a baseball bat in your car--OK only if you're coming from/going to a game you played in.

A couple days ago I looked at the UK knife laws and it really threw me for a loop. You folks really can't carry fixed knives, locking knives, free folding knives with over a 3" blade, or knives with words like "army" or "tactical" in the name because it indicates an intention to go around sticking folks?

Re: *DELETED*

Post deleted by GarminGPSMap

I guess it is good to be in Arkansas. We got a little hacked off when they told us we need to keep are guns unloaded within 50 feet of the road. Then They decided
that we need a permit to carry a concealed gun. I am not aware of flashlight laws here. We may not be as "Free" as
we were however were still doing pretty dang good. As for
Ken and Mas I hope they live in another state /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
Topper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I know little about self defense and agree that the agressive bezel of the E2d would be no magic wand for me if I were attacked by someone. If fight were the only alternative, I would rather have the E2d in my hand than nothing I would suppose. I also carry a pocket knife for various non defensive functions and doubt I would have the presence of mind to even pull it out of my pocket if attacked. However, If I am going to carry a light on me (I do), having the crenelated bezel might, in an emergency or even a non emergency, provide unanticipated function whereas a standard bezel might not. I use my fingernails for instance as tools (beyond nose picking) all the time. The E2d's bezel could provide for light duty prying or scraping or other functions in a pinch. Obviously, user be ware.

I had an E2d with me while snorkeling a few times recently and having some type of an "edge" certainly did not put me at any disadvantage. I can invision circumstances where such a bezel might prove to be handy in encountering certain animals or even insects. I would think that a crenelated bezel would possibly make sense on a UV flashlight used for hunting scorpions. On Maui, I have encountered the big nasty centepedes at night and not had any tool handy for destroying them. The flashlight in hand would have only served as a club and in use as a club, the target would no longer be illuminated. These examples are hardly justification for a crenelated bezel but having an extra "edge" isn't necessarily of no import, IMHO.

Saw a close up photo of the new "crenelated" bezel on the M3 or M6, a while back, and if my memory serves me right, it appears that the new design eliminates the plastic retaining ring for the Pyrex lens. Someone should check it out, as I may be wrong about this. This would make for a much stronger design.
oldgrandpajack

Thanks guys for the input. Some of you said that the E2D in the hands of an average Joe might be as good as useless. I can't disagree. In a situation when you encounter an intruder or attacker how many are really ready to fight? How many would already be holding an E2D or M3 on their hands?

A trained expert would probably be better off deterring any attackers with bare hands than fight it out with the attacker. In a defensive situation most would rather just deter than cause harm to the aggressor until it is deemed futile and a real fight must ensue, but then again a trained combatant could kill even with bare hands.

Looking at the way the E2D is designed, how does many of us carry it? In our pocket? Then chances are you will realize the crenelation got snagged in your pocket before you can even pull it out in a defensive situation. Imagine this, you are trying to pull the E2D out of your pocket as it got snagged to a string while the attacker is thumping at you. You could even be unconcious before you got the E2D out. Prevention? Carry it in a holster, but then again how many would EDC a flashlight on a holster? That is why some pistol manufacturer came out with spur free hammer on their revolver for pocket carry.

To conclude, I am not against the new crenelated bezel. In fact I still like it. I guess if it was in my hands in a defensive situation I would probably just aim it in the eye of the attacker, that is provided I blind him temporarily with the 60 lumens light so I could have enough time to jab at him.

Keep the comments and opinion coming guys.

Andy Ho

OGPJ,

On both the M3 and M6, the crenalated bezel does replace the plastic retaining nut. I would asume as well that there is additional strength and rigidity as well.

Curious to know where I can find a weblink or reference to the BEAST HID LAMP

There are many vital points on the body that this bezel would be useful in hitting. Many of those points when hit with sufficient force can do serious if not life threatening damage. I spent quite a few years studying Ishenryu under the guidance of my uncle. A good portion of that time was spent learning about these vital areas. It is true though...that the average person would fumble it up. The head is a significant area...full of these vital points...but most people when fighting protect their heads... very smart.