Ultra G compared to Arc AA

run times

brightness

rugedness.

the price is right on the Ultra G.

this is somthing I want to put in for a small survival belt pack. a AA mag with White, Green and Red interchangeble 5mm LEDs will be the primary light but want somthing small to.

the single AA (arc or ultra-G), 4 spares and the Mini mag will be a total 7 Lithium batteries for a long time worth of light.Maybe even 2 ultra g's since they take up effectivly the same space as a AA batt.

do either light have problems with Lithium's?

If you mean do either Arc or Ultra have probs with Lithium AAs, then no, no probs at all. They both run just as well (if not better) on Lithiums, hence making them great as emergency lights too. I'd agree that both are really solid lights, and can take a real beating.
If you want something even smaller and lighter, I think the TekTite Splashlite would be a great package, esp the newer versions which they are selling with the L222 (I think) screw in Led bulb replacement. Runs on 1x123, and measures about 3 inches, not sure about runtime though...

Look here for the runtime plots!

If you want an ultra long running, rugged survival light, you want the Tek-Tite Trek Lithium which runs on an exotic and poisonous 3.6 volt AA-sized lithium thionyl chloride cell. It's dimmer than the Ultra (maybe halfway between the Ultra and the old non-Ultra Infinity) but runtime as measured by the LED Museum is in excess of ten days nonstop (240 hours), plus it's waterproof to 1000+ feet. It's a little bit bulky for a 1AA light but it's about the same weight as an Ultra. I'm working on a Tekna Splashlite-based variant of it which will be smaller.

I'd skip the Minimag in that outfit. It's heavy, inefficient, and the lithium batteries will pop the bulbs pretty fast. An Arc4 would be a good alternative if you want to spend some big cash, since it's LED-based, has good throw (largish reflector), and variable brightness (very long runtime if you only use the bright setting when you need it). Otherwise try something like a UKE 2L (maybe with the new 4 watt lamp) which will be a heck of a lot brighter than the Minimag, besides being smaller, lighter, and waterproof.

If you're cramped for space, you could use an Arc AAA or its cheesy cousin the CMG Sonic instead of an Ultra or AA. What survival situation is going to call for 60+ hours of light anyway? The survivalholics (sort of like flashaholics but into survival stuff instead) over on equipped.org usually just have coin cell lights (Photon II or the like) in PSK's.

In fact maybe you want to consider the Photon Freedom as yet another alternative to the Ultra. It takes practically no space, a couple spare coin cells also take practically no space, and it has variable brightness from near-zero to about the same as an Ultra. Runtime at the lower settings should be in the tens of hours or more, while still being usefully bright.

The Ultra-G is the light for the survival kit..especially with a lithium battery.

The Arc AAA is the light for the pocket...especially with the lithium AAA...when it comes out...(supposedly in the fall).

The mini mag is modded to take a interchangable 5mm LED's it gets awsome run time's and has good throw, but I want a back up and a light to have at an instant.maybe a few $1 lighs would be good to have as well.

I would like to stick with the AA's as hey are small but still have plenty of capacity (ie mAh).

this is for extended stays in nature in remote areas.

Plus the AA still have the energy to light off a fire with a small shorted wire.

Good thinking on the fire-starting..although I carry a 9-V and some steel wool...I think the Ultra-G will fit the bill.

It's very light with a lithium AA and the dark-adapted eye love it...well...at least mine does....

For the extended remote stay, maybe you want to think about the Swisslight, if they've gotten the bugs out of it yet.

You could also consider the original CMG Infinity. Runtime is about twice the Ultra and brightness is about half. It's still bright enough for most anything the Ultra is good for, especially if you have a more powerful backup.

Finally, maybe you want a small headlamp like a PT Aurora.

The battery-and-wire fire starter seems like more of a desperation measure to me, a good trick to know about if you don't have anything else, but in an environment like that, carry a more conventional fire starter. The equipped.org kit has the Sparklight synthetic flint gizmo identical to the one Countycomm now carries: http://www.countycomm.com/AVIATIONFIRE.htm . The Sparklight itself is about the size of a couple of wooden matches taped together, and fits in a standard match safe alongside the matches.

Yes, definitely take a few $1.00 Countycomms. If you set one of them up with a CR2032 cell instead of two CR2016's, it will be much dimmer, but still useful, and will run for days on end on the one coin cell.

I'd still ditch the mini mag.

I saw the Swiss light... seems a bit gimicky to me but would be awsome if it worked...

the battery fire starter is a last ditch effort if the lighter leaks, the NATO matchs get wet, and the 2 strikers (one magnesium and one flint) get lost....

there are 3 must have things in a survival sitiaion. fire, plasic bags, and lashing of some sort. after that every thing else will come easily.

Since these lithium thionyl chloride cells are cheap these days, I got a dozen of them and modded two of my infinity ultra G to use them.
Result: a light with pretty much the same brightness and rugedness as the original infinity ultra G but with a HUUUGE runtime. It's basically the tek micra lithium Paulr mentionned but with the form factor of the infinity.
I use it a lot more often than any of my other lights and the battery is almost impossible to deplete with everyday uses.

I'm not sure what your standard for "cheap" is. All the ones I see are pretty expensive (like $5 each). What are you paying for lithium thionyl chloride batteries and can you give us a source?

The only problem with the Arc AA is that many of the units are difficult to turn on and off with one hand. All of the Infinities I have don't have this problem.

There are some places selling the thionyl batteries for around $1.50 each. For environmental reasons I'm not keen on using them for casual purposes. Thionyl chloride is very toxic, to the point that even the US Navy is seeking proposals to develop replacements for it. However, for these very remote and survival applications, you can't beat the simplicity and energy density.

I don't think a modded Infinity is comparable to the Trek Lithium in terms of ruggedness or pressure resistance. The Infinity is water resistant enough that it shouldn't be bothered by getting rained on or maybe dunked. The Trek can withstand 1000 feet of pressure.

Also, the Trek uses an LED selected for forward voltage that matches the Li battery. Mine is somewhat less bright than an Ultra, as mentioned, about halfway between an Ultra and an old-style Infinity. If your modded Ultra is running at the same brightness as a regular Ultra, that means it's running at comparable current to the LED, which means the runtime will likely be shorter than the Trek's (though still a lot longer than the stock Ultra).

NATO matches are dipped in varnish and are supposed to be waterproof.

I used a led from lsdiodes.com . These seem to like the voltage provided by these batteries.
As for the battery, I had a deal on them for 50 cents each on ebay.
I frankely didn't know about how toxic the cells are; I think I'll stock the dead cells from now on instead of putting them in my dead battery box.
I agree the modded infinity isn't a dive light but it seems to be a pretty solid all arround light I'm not afraid to fire up.

Tell mr murfy that NATO matches are varnish dipped ;-)

I beleive you, and that is what I beleive, but Mr Murphy will still make a visit. that why so much redundancy.

if all that fails I have started fires with a bow, I have been wanting to try a scrape board but I think I'll wait till I'm real bored for that.

I did not realize the tek tite was using an alternative power source...

are the batteries sealed? problems handling them (they sound very nasty)? can I keep a spare or two? storage life? 10+ years? i like the idea of that I will go check it out right now.

How much mAh do the litium thynol batts have? they are 3.6V?

There are different flavors of thionyl batteries but yeah, the AA size is 2000 to 2400 mAH, 3.6 volts, i.e. almost 2x the energy density of L91 lithium, plus you sidestep the inefficiency of a DC-DC converter in a light like an Ultra. They have potentially better shelf and service life too, 20 years in the case of some Tadiran versions instead of 10 years for LiMnO2 cells like CR123's. They are sealed and handling issues are about the same as other AA cells. However, I would urge a responsible approach to disposing of used cells since I figure if they get thrown in a crushing machine or stay at the bottom of some landfill for long enough, the stuff eventually will get out. I think it's best to just not generate a lot of them, by not using them unless the application calls for them.

It seems to me in this extended stay situation, you're describing an everyday-use light rather than a survival/backup light. Maybe your best bet for that is to bring some AA or AAA NiMH cells and a small solar charger along. Then you can run just about anything--flashlights, radios, GPS--more or less indefinitely.

I'd also consider standardizing on AAA cells instead of AA, resulting in smaller stuff all around. Arc AAA small light, PT Aurora (3aaa) LED headlamp, PT Rage (4aaa) brighter light, Garmin Geko (2aaa) GPS, Sony SRFM37V (1aaa) am/fm/tv band Walkman radio if there's any signal where you're going (otherwise maybe a shortwave radio), and some AAA powered FRS radio tranceiver.

Paulr, you're right on the edge of making me stop using these cells altogether! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
I know the stuff in batteries aren't very healthy but I'm really worried here since I gave one the these ultra G to my little sister and she disassembles my computer in 5 minutes 24 seconds...
I read saft or tadiran's pdf, I don't remember, and they have a stainless steel countainer and glass to metal hermetic seals; that kind of gives me a hint of how much you don't want what's inside to get out...
Are these really inappropriate for this kind of use(everyday in flashlights)?
I'll convert my lights back right away if it's not a good idea. Oh and what are the right way to dispose of them?

AA is just larger than AAA but hold 2300-2900mAh the AAA is 750-900.

My GPS uses AA's but I wouldnt be using it.

This is a walkout into the woods with a belt pack and a few quarts of water and about 20,000 calories worth of food, disapear for a cuple weeks kinna thing.

eat twigs ,nuts ,berries and small game/pests (nutria, black birds and Pigeions are always in season).Get water from a set of solar stills or chemical treated or boiled.

cell phone always in reach (hopefully) for emergencies.


Any idea on the small solar charger? that would be cool if I could keep it the belt or ration bag

I don't think your sister is in danger unless she's going to eat the cells or something. If she's that young, it's probably better not to give her any kind of disassemblable flashlight. It's more of a pollution issue, throwing these cells into the ordinary household trash. They should probably be disposed of as hazmat. I'm in contact with a manufacturer rep so will ask for advice about what to do with them. One possibility is toss them in the used-battery box at Radio Shack. I believe they separate the cells from those boxes so they can recycle the metal in nicads and nimh cells.

For an everyday-use flashlight that's running for lots of hours, I think it's best to use rechargeables. A 1600 mah NiMH AA cell (not so great by today's standards) runs a CMG Ultra for 12 hours or so. That's enough for most daily usage; just keep a charged cell at home and swap cells and recharge as needed. I did this for a while but I don't use LED lights for nearly enough hours for it to matter, so I just use alkalines now. My main EDC has been an Arc AAA for over a year and it's on its second alkaline cell, mostly because I used it as a "candle" for several hours during the east coast blackout. I do use NiMH cells in small incandescents like the PT Blast. Right now my small "bright" light is a Streamlight TL3 (3x123) but I will probably get a Strion sooner or later.