Should i wait for more LS options?

I've been scouring this forum for weeks, and i've been pretty sure for a while that i want to buy the Inova x5... BUT, i keep seeing all this great stuff about the Luxeon, and a friend/coworker who has been working with them for a while has nothing but praise, so i'm wondering if it would be worth waiting for more LS lights to come out.

i want something i can keep in my pocket nearly all the time and can take a decent beating. So the x5 seems perfect. it seems like its more than bright enough for most situations, but i also have the desire to get the brightest light i can get within my price range and required specs.

So should i wait? i mean... it there any chance a LS light of about the size of an x5 and cheaper than say 60 bucks will come out any time soon?

anouther question... luxeons seem to eat batteries almost as much as a typical flashlight. Is this true? non LS leds last long, but thats casue they put out less light, right?

Thank you ahead of time for answering my newbie questions.

"There's no such thing as a free lunch".


Say a light runs on 4AA cells.
If you want it to run for 4 hours, it will be a certain brightness.
If you want it to be brigher, it will run less than 4 hours.
If you want it dimmer, than it will run longer than 4 hours.

Of course it is possible to have it brigher and run for more than 4 hours, but that will mean the power source (4AA's in this case) will have to increase in size, thus 4C or even 4D.

Now the difference between incandescent and leds (5mm ones) are that the leds use less power, hence not as bright. But there are all the advantages such as it is a solid state device, will not break, will last for 100000 hours, has a nice colour temperature, etc, etc...

Now the Luxeon Stars leds are brigher than normal 5mm leds, but also use more power. Their brightness is on par with some incandescents. But that also means that they are using just as much power as the incandescents. But they have advantages such as it is a solid state device, will not break, will last for 100000 hours, has a nice colour temperature, etc, etc...

Now as far as efficiency is concerned, leds are more efficient than the normal vaccum bulb in a typical torch (flashlight). However they are only as efficient as Halogen, Xenon, etc. bulbs.

Short arc lamps, and HID's on the other hand... Well that's just comparing apples and oranges.

Hope that made sense..

YC

TOTAL sense! thanks a million.... more than adiquate explaination. all i REALLY needed to hear was that incandescents have the same lumens/watt(isnt that the right terminology?). and i think i'm going to go for the x5 then.

as a follow up question, what is the technology that puts out the best lumens/watt(or whatever)? HID? and are they available yet in typical consumer flashlight brightnesses with extended battery life?

High-pressure sodium lamps can produce 100-150 lumens per watt.

Metal halide bulbs, 75-110.

Typical fluorescent bulbs, 45-100.

Low-voltage halogens, 15-40.

Red-orange Luxeon Star, 46.

Soon-to-be-released 5-watt white LS, 25.

White 5mm Nichia, 18.

White Luxeon Star, 15.

Typical halogen floor lamps, 10-15.

Typical home incandescent bulb, 10.

Wow, Duggg - now that you've tabulated it like that, I've just realized how efficient a 5mm white nichia is: 3 lumen/watt more than a white LS! I'm really curious now - how'd they suddenly double the efficiency of the HD whites? They're supposed to be rated at 30 lumens each, aren't they? And whatever happened to the folks at nichia with their take on the large-die hi-power LEDs? Doesn't seem like anyone has even mentioned working on engineering samples of those Luxeon alternatives....

I haven't seen a light that is more convenient to carry than the X5 that has the brightness. It fits in my pocket and I don't know it's there until I need it.

I've also ordered a Lambda Illuminator, but have not yet received it. It is longer than the X5--it's a bit longer than a mini-mag.

For me, in my pants pocket, that length difference makes a world of difference. A minimag doesn't carry as well as the X5.

I have a white/"white" one and am also very pleased how they don't scratch that much.

Also Inova is redesigning the unit with a tailcap switch (I've heard, I'm not the resource on this, just a fan of the X5). I like it the way it is.

Cheers,

Richard

Have you got access to an Arc-LS? You might change your mind about the X5

Brightnorm said this first, I am just repeating it.

As far as the Inova X5 light is concerned, it is a very well made light. As far as "better" lights are concerned, there will always be brighter or smaller or longer running or whatever, but for certain apps, the Inova is just what you need.

I sent my Inova X5 out for repair, and I really miss it. I have other led lights, and several Surge's and Legend LX's, but for my daily flashlight needs (walking the dog) I think the Inova is my ideal light.

So even if there are brighter led's out there (I have already ordered my Llambda Lluminator!), you can't go wrong with the Inova!

Well, OK, your good point is taken. The Arc-LS is still in development anyway and there really isn't anything now in the same production class as the X5 for size, output, qualty, finish, waterproofness, battery life and price. All-in-all, it still is one very very impressive light. That's why I own one too , though because its so expensive here, I tend to coddle it to keep its like-new finish.

And when that new brighter tailcap-switch version comes out, I'm certain this X5 won't be my last either...drat - must start printing money...

The X5 tonight served as a nice illuminator at 40x and 100x for looking at a piece of pumice under a microscope. Much nicer than the "tensor-type" lamp that I've used in the past. The daylight color blows away the incandescent. This was exciting for my 7- and 8-year olds. The 8-year old had brought home the sample from school, but DRAT it sunk even though you could see the air bubbles in the surface.

Cheers,

Richard

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hotfoot:
I've just realized how efficient a 5mm white nichia is

Small LEDs don't generate much heat, which is the big bugaboo with the LS. The more heat it produces, the less efficient it is.

how'd they suddenly double the efficiency of the HD whites?

My understanding is that Luxeon's new die is larger and more efficient at conducting heat away from the junction.

Of course, the 25-30 lumen figure may assume a lot of heat sinking! Or it could be a 0 Kelvin spec

And whatever happened to the folks at nichia with their take on the large-die hi-power LEDs?

According to http://www.nichia.co.jp/highpowerled-e.htm, samples of their new 23-lumen SMD white should be available in "Q2 of 2002." Well, maybe late Q2 When someone finally gets one, no doubt you'll hear about it here!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Muchos gracias, Duggg!

yet another advantage of the x5 is battery compatability for surefires/scorpion/triad, that makes a big difference to some people. Really looking forward to seeing the new x5.

- Pete

Before I disappear, a short note:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Duggg:
High-pressure sodium lamps can produce 100-150 lumens per watt.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A minor critic: It's not too good to compare white and more or less monochromatic light sources, you should keep them apart.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Low-voltage halogens, 15-40.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The theoretical efficiency of a black body radiator at tungsten's melting point is at 41lm/W. As a filament is not pure tungsten and there are other losses, the limit should be at some 30+lm/W. And this includes fancy electronics for soft start and keeping the bulb exactly at it's working point

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
White 5mm Nichia, 18.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

At lower currents (1-3mA) this could be 25-30lm/W (depending on the specific sample).

(I will be away again for some time)

Thank you for coming back again. Please try not to be away for so long this time. I always enjoy your posts.

I think when the 5mm Nichias are over driven like on the X-5 or the Arc the efficiency goes down quite a bit.

It's not as bright as the x-5 but I am quite enamored but the Opalec new beam. Kind of expensive when you add it all up, but cheap batteries and the option to use rechargables will more than make up for that. Plus the Opalec is very well regulated while the X-5 is not.
Hmmm, better get both.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Duggg:
High-pressure sodium lamps can produce 100-150 lumens per watt.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A minor critic: It's not too good to compare white and more or less monochromatic light sources, you should keep them apart.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you confusing low pressure sodium with high pressure sodium? Low is obviously yellow and EXTREMELY monochromatic. You sometimes still see these on highways. They look like flourescent tubes. High pressure has a MUCH BROADER spectrum than low and is shaped more like a big light bulb.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RonM:
Are you confusing low pressure sodium with high pressure sodium?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, you're of course right. I was careless. Duggg gave us a very good general overview. Of course you have distiguish between high and low power light sources, flood and spot ones and different light colour. Depending on your application the 'real efficiency' (if there is such a thing) may differ. Actually, we all know that.

(I'm disappearing again for at least a week)