ALL vehicles should come standard w/ 4wheel drive

why don't they? especially here in Maine and other places with similar 6 month winters.

i just had to drive up a hill behind a van that was driving so horribly in the snow that they pulled into a driveway to let me pass them. unfortunately, only HALF WAY in the driveway, which forced ME to stop on the hill to wait for on-coming traffic to pass, and then start going again. so then I TOO started having trouble getting up the hill, and i'm already in 2nd gear. THEN a Jeep Liberty comes up behind me and is obviously fed up with this kid in the 2wheel drive vehicle who can't get up the hill @ 30mph, and they're stopping and going on the hill like it's a bare road, until they finally turn off to go up another road instead of driving behind me for 60 more seconds.
*sigh*
why don't all vehicles come standard with 4wheel drive? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

Re: ALL vehicles should come standard w/ 4wheel dr

4 wheel drive only helps accelleration. It does not help turning nor breaking. It has not been found to lower your risk of crash or death, even in northern states.

RWD/FWD vehicles are quite capable of going up hills at more than 30mph. **** off a cop in his RWD Crown Vic to test this /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

(as an aside, in Montana, the only vehicles I ever see in the ditch are SUVs. People don't understand that 4WD/AWD doesn't help with cornering/breaking)

Cost, and I would say they should have ALL wheel drive, not 4 wheel. I have a jeep grand cherokee that can be in both modes and All wheel drive is much better on roads.
All wheel drive adds a 3rd differental so the front and rear axles can spin at diffrent speeds. That makes a huge differance. having good tires is also vitaly important.
I have had an experance similar to yours but I ended up passing the other car as it slid off sideways (He did not get stuck, just took him forever to get up the ice covered hill)

Re: ALL vehicles should come standard w/ 4wheel dr

Using snow tires, instead of all-seasons, is actually a larger difference in tests than any drive type. But no one wants to use multiple sets of tires /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Re: ALL vehicles should come standard w/ 4wheel dr

too true, one fault of 4 wheel or all wheel drive is over confidance, another is probly lack of experance at driving sutch a vehical in thouse conditions

Re: ALL vehicles should come standard w/ 4wheel dr

I would somewhat agree. 4 wheel drive/AWD don't mean squat if no wheels have traction. The specific snow tires do help quite a bit and especially on FWD vehicles. FWD vehicles have a tendency to work better and are easier to control in snowy/slick conditions than RWD.....

NOW, take those same snow tires and put it on a AWD vehicle and now your playing with power in the snow. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Curtis

Re: ALL vehicles should come standard w/ 4wheel dr

[ QUOTE ]
Frangible said:
4 wheel drive only helps accelleration. It does not help turning nor breaking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Id have to dis agree with that, FWD will help you turn ALOT better than RWD, and 4WD will also help you turn.
Turn the wheel and give it some gas, it will turn.


Also,, theres a BIG differnce between 4WD and AWD.
Most AWD systems are "smart" and can apply power where needed.
Most 4WD systems (except the newest ones) are "dumb" and wont prevent much slipping if you give it too much gas.

Re: ALL vehicles should come standard w/ 4wheel dr

I have FWD on a Plymouth Voyager and never have problems. I think good tires and driving experience are most important. AWD and 4WD in most cases (for highway driving) just adds cost, complexity, weight, higher maintenance cost, tire wear, initial capital outlay, higher emissions, pollution and increased gas consumption. JMHO.

Re: ALL vehicles should come standard w/ 4wheel dr

yeah. having crappy summer tires doesn't help me much. i've gotten used to driving in this weather, and i'm quite crafty now, but there's really just nothing you can do on these roads right now. we had a layer of ice last night, then some disgusting snow today that has turned into mud slush, and no plows sanding or moving any snow off the roads, which by the way, they haven't in awhile, so we've had some nasty build up on the roads.

apparently i meant AWD rather than 4WD, but isn't it true that a Suburu will handle better in the crappy winter conditions than any FWD or RWD vehicle?

i've driven my FWD Neon and Sunfire and a RWD Thunderbird as a loaner, and i wasn't impressed by them in these conditions. but i can't pick up a nice AWD vehicle on my current "budget". and ppl think i'm weird 'cause i actually liked driving the RWD Thunderbird better than my FWD Neon in the winter. i know FWD has a better reputation, but i'm just weird i guess.

Re: ALL vehicles should come standard w/ 4wheel dr

[ QUOTE ]

apparently i meant AWD rather than 4WD, but isn't it true that a Suburu will handle better in the crappy winter conditions than any FWD or RWD vehicle?

[/ QUOTE ]

According to the tests I saw, it is dependant upon the tires. If the Subaru does not have winter tires, and say, your Neon does, you could outperform it in bad conditions. However, if both vehicles have the same tires, the Subaru would win.

Re: ALL vehicles should come standard w/ 4wheel dr

[ QUOTE ]
Frangible said:
...snip...
(as an aside, in Montana, the only vehicles I ever see in the ditch are SUVs. People don't understand that 4WD/AWD doesn't help with cornering/breaking)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep - see it all the time - Been passed by SUVs, and I would go past in my car a few miles later, where they were in the ditch

This year is my first year with 4wd. It's OK - I think my old RWD car with a limited slip differential and studded snows did just as well. In my old 2wd pickup, which are KNOWN for having no traction, I carried chains - remember them? I'll probably still buy chains for all 4 corners on my truck, and hope I never have to use them

Re: ALL vehicles should come standard w/ 4wheel dr

Oh - and I agree on the tires - if you live in snow country, look for tires with the "Mountain and Snowflake" rating - the old M+S rating became a joke, so there is a new rating out there. The problem is that as far as I know the ONLY year round tire made that has a Mountain & snowflake rating is the Nokian WRX, and they are NOT cheap tires - like sized for my Saturn they were almost $200 each

Re: ALL vehicles should come standard w/ 4wheel dr

I have michlean (spelling is wrong sorry) LTX AT on My jeep and they go well, I was suprized how well they worked when I got them.
My buick on the other hand has traction controll and seems todo quite well in the snow If I keep My foot of the gas as 240 hp on snow and ice is not a good thing.

I go off the road and got stuck one year in My jeep but the moron in the oncoming lane was not getting over and to avoid a head on crash I moved to the shoulder a bit too far , once I caught the deeper snow it was over, all I could do and just hang on! Oh what a ride!

Re: ALL vehicles should come standard w/ 4wheel dr

Move to somewhere where it doesn't snow/ice.

Re: ALL vehicles should come standard w/ 4wheel dr

Its funny how people always like to talk about how 4wd/awd only helps you accelerate. How many times do you actually have problems going around a turn? Most of the difficulty in driving in snow is getting stuck when going up hills or after coming to a stop.

I run these bad boys on my Galant in the winter time:




She easily goes places that most 4wd trucks can't go. Every winter season I pull a few cars and trucks out of ditches with it as well. Thats the result of having two limited slips, great knobbies, and plenty of power. One of these days I'll get a third LSD...

Mark

Re: ALL vehicles should come standard w/ 4wheel dr

Nice to have a turbo sometimes.

Re: ALL vehicles should come standard w/ 4wheel dr

[ QUOTE ]
How many times do you actually have problems going around a turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not me, but a lot of people lose control in turns on ice.

Re: ALL vehicles should come standard w/ 4wheel dr

I have learned to drive such that I have very good vehicle control in a wide bunch of kinds of weather.

That said, put ICE (not snow, not slush) on the road and ALL bets are off!

We had a hard freeze here several years ago, and the overpasses were all VERY icey. If you didn't do anything stupid, not even let up off the pedal, nothing happened.

I saw several vehicles spin off the road that day.

I read a VERY interesting article in Car and Driver after antilock brakes just started getting popular. A C&D guy had his wife with him in an Audi 4WD Anti Lock "supercar" and was tooling down the highway in winter. He says he topped a hill on the interstate and saw a jacknifed 18 wheeler down the hill a good way off. So he started braking. Except it never slowed down because it was trying to antilock on ice.

The airbag and the Audi Structure saved his wife.

So all the AWD and Antilock in the world won't make you invincable...

Re: ALL vehicles should come standard w/ 4wheel dr

I put 4 studded snow tires on my grand am and I have no problem in the snow

Re: ALL vehicles should come standard w/ 4wheel dr

I was in the snow last week, but had to drive 400 miles to get there. Adding AWD or 4WD will adversely impact 1) weight, 2) gas milage, 3) height, 4)cost for those of us in temperate climates.

My parents lived in snow country and simply had their tires changed from 'summer' to 'winter' and back. The winter tires are studded with big (by my standards) blocky tread. The summer tires had a good rain tread.

Daniel