Passport for US/Canada Border?

Passport needed for U.S. borders--USA Today
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WASHINGTON — U.S. citizens will be required to show a passport to re-enter the United States from Canada, Mexico, Panama, Bermuda and the Caribbean by 2008, the departments of State and Homeland Security announced Tuesday. The change, which will be phased in over the next three years, is part of an ongoing effort to tighten border security after the 2001 terrorist attacks. Canadians, who now are the only foreigners allowed to enter the United States with only driver's licenses, also will need passports to head south across the border.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, in an interview with the Associated Press, said the United States has to take every precaution to screen out "people who want to come to hurt us."

Border agents must look at scores of different state driver's licenses and try to determine if they are real or fake. With passports as the main form of identification, "it's going to take a lot of the mystery out" of the process, said the State Department's Maura Harty.

One in five Americans — more than 60 million — have passports, the State Department says. Because the government doesn't know how many cross the borders without passports, officials don't know how many more people will need them. Nearly 1 million enter the United States from Canada and Mexico each day by car, truck, bus, train or on foot.


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Passport fees
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Age 16 and older: The passport fee is $55. The security surcharge is $12. The execution fee is $30. The total is $97.

Under Age 16: The passport fee is $40. The security surcharge is $12. The execution fee is $30. The total is $82.

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So a trip up to Thunder Bay will require me spending $1417 Before we leave /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Maybe we better go see Fort William this summer.

I am suprised these rules were not implemented several years ago. There were arguments to do this even before 9/11.

I do think the fees are too high and should be lowered, but the passport is good for 10 years and It seems reasonable to require a passport to enter the US from a foreign country. We require it from almost every other country and we don't want to leave a gap in our national security.

[edit: on second thought, a valid US driver license should be sufficient to establish legal residency in the US (assuming the driver licensing agencies have proper controls) and that should be enough to get you back home. There has been talk of tightening driver license standards and maybe that should be enough. I think the passport should primarily serve to get you into foreign countries that require it, not to get you back home.]

The economies of border towns like Buffalo, NY and Windsor, ON will feel it with far less day traffic via automobile being the inevitable result of the change. Florida may also feel it a bit with fewer Canadians driving down during Spring Break.

In the long term, a European Union type of arrangement might be agreed upon where Americans, Canadians and Mexicans would have a common passport with electronic features to reduce the threat of terrorism and speed flow of traffic between the three countries.

Perhaps a better idea is to have all 50 states have the same strict standards for a drivers license. At the same time one was applying for the license the applicant would also have to apply for a passport with strict USA standards. All of this would be incorporated on the same license with the latest electronic features. Since it would be renewed every three years(for example) it would help keep closer track of legal citizens. This could also eliminate the need for a national ID card since it effectively is one.
Illegal Immigrants need not apply.

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Wits' End said:

So a trip up to Thunder Bay will require me spending $1417 Before we leave /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Maybe we better go see Fort William this summer.

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Do you really take trips to Thunder Bay? I lived there for 7 years in the 90's...It sure is a remote place but the nature is beautiful.

When I got my first passport, it was $35. The "security fee" and "execution fee" is Cr*P! I think of how many friends are often deterred from making a vist outside USA borders because of the headache in obtaining and paying for a passport (which most would only use a few times). Why can you get a driver's liscence for a fraction of the cost, and very often they are also good for 7 years! I could rant on and on about how the "all in the name of security" mentality has cost US taxpayers again and again and again.

Doesn't this violate Canadian/US treaties? I thought that citizens of either country were exempt from showing passports.

It will kill border towns like Buffalo, especially when the Bills play and people try to get to the games.

Try moving thru europe without a passport..

We need it and other measures...esp a huge border patrol along our northern and southern borders.

Part of the current furvor over this is based on a report that came out recently showing that Canada was not doing nearly enough at the borders. So of course the government jumps on that as something they can do something about then.

There is still time for Canada to bring their own side of the deal up to what America would like and then I'm sure the requirements for it will be removed.

Even so, getting a passport is no big deal. It's not like EVERY trip you take across the border will cost you an extra hundred bucks, only the first one after the law passes, and another 10 years later. Add an extra $100 to this years vacation budget. If people aren't taking trips, it will be due to gas prices and not to the requirement to get a passport.

that being said.. The lines in my local post office are bad enough, and I'm going on a southern vacation this summer and will need to go stand in them for that passport very soon. yuck. But at least then I can go to Canada too!

And it works great there for the terror problem, doesn't it?

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DarkLight said:
Try moving thru europe without a passport..

We need it and other measures...esp a huge border patrol along our northern and southern borders.

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It took about 2+ weeks to get my son's passport in the mail. I don't think getting a passport is a big deal. But that's just probably me who's always relied on a passport as my main form of ID (we travelled a lot). I can't recite my local ID or driver's licence number, but I can probably tell you what those were for my last 3-4 passports.

That said, certain policies are certainly inconvenient for common people. Crooks find ways to bypass the controls, and it's the law-abiding citizens who get stuck with the additional requirements. My 0.2 lux.

The desire for increased security is not a bad thing, but the use of passports is not as useful as it could be. It's one thing to say 'you should be able to reenter your own country without a passport' but how can you tell? You take people's word for it?

And drivers license is useless. How many of us either had or knew someone who had a fake drivers license when we were young? I'd bet most of us. To make the DL work, they'd need a biometric proof of who you are to go withe the license. They would also need to register that you are leaving the country. You don't want Mark Smith returning from a vacation he never went on, do you?

Think about it. If you manage to get into the country by land, sea, etc you can stay here. It's like requiring "visitor" badges at a large business without requiring employee badges for everyone else. If you have no badge you are assumed to be an employee. Same here. If you don't present a passport for ID you are assumed to be here legally.

Personally, I like the idea of a national ID card. It would sure cut down on identity theft. Honest folks are already super tracable via Soc Sec numbers, drivers lic and credit cards.

Daniel

The whole issue is pathetic.
I am a dual citizen, I cross at my own leisure, so my opinion is not biased.
I think this is going overbord a bit, the people who need to fake their identification will always be able to do so, because of lack of continuity in U.S. laws. Asking Canadians to require more I.D. to slow the procees of terrorism is another huge step backwards in the whole fight. It seems the U.S. is trying so hard to isolate it's self, eventually it will happen.

I agree.

As far as getting a passport and its being easy, I doubt that if the Sabres and leafs have a big game at the end of the season when hockey starts up again that people will get passports to see it. Ditto with the Bills. Border cities depend on the cross traffic.

Maybe we should do passports between each state. How many people did McVeigh kill?

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Pydpiper said:
The whole issue is pathetic.
I am a dual citizen, I cross at my own leisure, so my opinion is not biased.
I think this is going overbord a bit, the people who need to fake their identification will always be able to do so, because of lack of continuity in U.S. laws. Asking Canadians to require more I.D. to slow the procees of terrorism is another huge step backwards in the whole fight. It seems the U.S. is trying so hard to isolate it's self, eventually it will happen.

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Why go to Canada?

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Pydpiper said:
The whole issue is pathetic.
I am a dual citizen, I cross at my own leisure, so my opinion is not biased.
I think this is going overbord a bit, the people who need to fake their identification will always be able to do so, because of lack of continuity in U.S. laws. Asking Canadians to require more I.D. to slow the procees of terrorism is another huge step backwards in the whole fight. It seems the U.S. is trying so hard to isolate it's self, eventually it will happen.

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The sheer ignorance of the last two sentences defy description. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

I see nothing wrong with asking for better ID when coming accross the border. Maybe the price of passports is too high, but I see that as a seperate issue. Try to bring down the passport fees, but let's still require something better than a DL for getting into our country.

Our boarder patrol is pathetic. There are millions of illegal aliens. They are a drain on us. I really wish we would either deport most of our illegal aliens, or make them legal.

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DimBeam said:
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Pydpiper said:
The whole issue is pathetic.
I am a dual citizen, I cross at my own leisure, so my opinion is not biased.
I think this is going overbord a bit, the people who need to fake their identification will always be able to do so, because of lack of continuity in U.S. laws. Asking Canadians to require more I.D. to slow the procees of terrorism is another huge step backwards in the whole fight. It seems the U.S. is trying so hard to isolate it's self, eventually it will happen.

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The sheer ignorance of the last two sentences defy description. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

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Ignorance? By definition that means "lack of knowledge" I have been crossing the border for 35 years, sometimes once a month other times daily. If you are a person who crosses the border often then I will dispute this with you peacefully, but if you are a person who rarly crosses the border and are unfamiliar with the ease and freedom that Canada shares with that border than you win, I am ignornant.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I love the USA, just like you, what I don't like is isolation, being an average white boy that carries nothing worse than a volitile litium battery and a couple of kids that are very capable of creating havoc at a blink of an eye I find it very insulting that I now have to spend $400 to let them go see their grandpa.
Now with the risk of getting into hot water as I often do,.... (edited)..... and leave the border from Canada to U.S. to those who understand it.

Now, boys, let's calm down here and not get the thread closed.

Latest news is that they're thinking about placing a biometric chip in the passport or a chip loaded with a photographic image and fingerprints as well.

Well, if it makes somebody feel better... but don't kid yourself -- anything can be forged.

But, howzabout we train border guards better and pay them better?