Purpose built, high output platform.

Ginseng has already mentioned this in another thread, but I thought I'd concur with his assessment of the hotwire situation and see what members here might consider as the optimal size for a purpose built light.

Is 2D too big? Is 2C? What size light seems like the appropriate platform?

How much light? 200 lumens? 300 lumens? 400 lumens?

Remember that there is always a tradeoff:

Bright lights require power, thus bright and small = short run time.

Bright and long run time = heavy and/or long

What works for you?

Bill

I'd say 3-D and 500 lumens

The answer to your question depends a lot on what people are going to use the light for. For me the combination of brightness and runtime is most important, but that doesn't mean I want to lug around on something weighing more than 2 lbs or being bigger than it has to.

My current favourite is the WA1306 bulb driven by 3 Pila 168A/S. 100 minutes runtime on 168A and 70 minutes on 168S. The WA1306 produce 370 bulb lumens at 10.8V. I think this is the optimum trade-off between runtime, brightness and size/weight of battery pack.
The 168S goes into Fivemega's 1.5D Mag. The 168A goes into Fivemega's 3 Pila168A Stinger adapter, with the adapter and HP head the light has the same length as a Mag 3C.
I use my hotwires for SAR, and the WA1306 workes out very well for this.
For a smaller setup a WA1165/WA1316 run on two Pila 168A in either a Mag 2.5C or in Fivemega's 2 Pila168A Stinger adapter is very nice (the stinger setup being the smallest one). 440 bulb lumens for an hour.

I will also bring a secondary light to use when more throw is needed, this will be a WA1318/WA1331 run on 3 Pilas.

Sigbjoern

Anything less than 500 bulb lumens is too litte to even consider, and anything bigger than a Mag2D is way too big to even consider. In fact, anything larger than the USL, or dimmer than the USL, and just forget it. I'm not interested.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Just kidding. This is a pretty impossible question to answer, though.

For me it depends on whether the light is for EDC or not. For EDC, an hour runtime is minimum, or a 2-level light, such as the SF A2, with a long-running low-level output.

If not for EDC, I would want at least 10-12 minutes of runtime, and no bigger than a Mag2D and no dimmer than 250 lumens out the front.

What we WANT, and what is reasonable are often 2 different things!!

How about 300-400 torch lumens, with a runtime of approx. 1 hour, with a lowlite Led tailcap? Smaller than or equal to a 2C Mag in length?

Bill

[ QUOTE ]
bwaites said:
What we WANT, and what is reasonable are often 2 different things!!


[/ QUOTE ]

That doesn't sound like a hotwire credo to me! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif

Now, I'd buy, What we want and what's reasonable are two different things - hotwires fall somewhere in between!

[ QUOTE ]
bwaites said:
How about 300-400 torch lumens, with a runtime of approx. 1 hour, with a lowlite Led tailcap? Smaller than or equal to a 2C Mag in length?

Bill

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, I think this would be very tempting, especially if you could push the envelope a bit to get as close to 500 lumens as possible.

Staying with cheap, easily available bulbs, creates some difficulty with that 500 lumen/hour issue.

I'd be happy with 300 for an hour myself.

Bill

Bill,

Thanks for starting this thread and discussion. Here are my thoughts.

1) For a genuine, on my 24/7 EDC, it's got to be the size of a SF L4 or only a shade larger. 150 bulb lumens with a smooth medium flood beam profile would suit the shorter use range of such a light. Runtime should be 45-60 minutes. Pocket or holster carry.

2) For a "rumble light" meaning I have sufficient notice to go grab it and arrange carry for a specific purpose or period of time, the size length of a 2D or 3C is about max and a head size in the Stinger to just under Mag head size is just about right. Runtime should be 30-45 minutes and output should be 500 bulb lumens. A semi-textured reflectored would be nice. Hand or belt loop/holster carry.

3) For a "whoop-*** light meaning demo or acute purposes (for me, chasing deer out of my garden) 3D length with Mag or 3" head max. Runtime should be at least 10 minutes continuous and lumens should be the higher the better. Hand carry.

I've broached the idea of planting a McR20 reflector in the tailcap of another Aurora prototype and I think this would be ideal. Since the two light sources would occupy the two ends of the light and your grip would allow you to positively and quickly bring the necessary light to bear, you get the best of both worlds. Also, the mini Cherry DPDT switches would be perfect. Flick forward toward the head for the front incan beam and flick backward for the rear LED beam. Carry and deployment would be natural and comfortable. Unfortunately, I have not heard back from the LED modder so I may have to get this idea executed in prototype some other way.

Wilkey

Interesting that we are both thinking along those lines of dual ended lights, Wilkey!

Bill

Bill, do you have something you are working on, or is this just for picking up ideas for new projects?

I'd also be happy with 300 torch lumens for an hour, and find that to be a good trade-off.

You are talking about length, but how about thickness? 500 torch lumen/hour is no problem if going fat. A FM 6AA body with 3 Pila 168A and WA1318 gives you this. And it is shorter than a Mag 2C. But I have no problem seeing that many/most people will find it too thick.

Sigbjoern

We are working on an LED light that is getting near the output of incans.. the RT4.. http://rouse.com/RT4 It is 'only' about 400lumen/8500 lux.. but it's dimmable.. a twist of the head bumps it down to 1/2 power and to 1/10th power... so unlike the hotwire lights.. 3 lights in one.. click that link and check out the beamshots in the trees..

I used the same host mentioned a couple times.. the FM 168x3 body.. it's just the perfect size because it has a 'force to be reckoned with' feel because of the relatively squat shape.

-awr

There is no doubt that the new generation of LED's are going to start to push the incans in what they achieve, and I look forward to the multi-LED evals.

That said, nothing compares with a well driven incans light output as far as depth perception and so on. As a well known CPF'er said, "I feel like I'm should be in a space suit when I use a high powered LED, it gives me that feeling of a moonwalk and that weird color rendition."

Maybe some mix of LED's can come closer to a white incan, and then this will be moot, but until them, I like the incans for these kind of lights.

Bill

Lurveleven,

Sorry I missed your question!

Yes we are working on something.

Bill

bwaits.. yes, i think you hit a couple nails on the head.. the FM hotwire in the same body can output as much as 20-30,000 lux.. blows the spot right out of the water compared to the measly 8500 that the RT4 is outputting, but for closer work (less than 100yrd or so).. the RT4 really throws a much smoother even beam.. however.. you really on something with the color rendition.. I started a thread about the V1 color specifically because of how nice it renders 'real world' color.. it takes quite a lot of emitters to pull it off.. but my megasonic will have 7 TV1Js after its next upgrade.. just about 500lumen.. probably about 10,000 lux... just about 2 hrs runtime on full power. (of course currently i can dial the power down to about a 5-day straight runtime). I plan to do some mixing of colors to get a more natural light and to get an incan look from LED as well.. when you have a bazillion emitters like my upcoming 'gigasonic'.. 14 emitter.. 35W light.. estimated 28000 lux, 1400 lumen.. i should be able to achieve a very nice mix.. and that light should have about 90minutes runtime... i think the giga will absolutely give any normal hotwire a run for its money. I am not a fan of the HID-blue tint of a lot of LEDs, and agree about the moonwalk feel.. i much prefer the warmer tints that make skin look like skin and make trees look 3D vs 2D. Of course this light has a 4" diameter head, so 'size matters'.. a much smaller single bulb incan had a much higher lumen/cc value.

-awr

Good stuff. Keep it coming.

I am one of those who find the Tigerlight body too fat for comfortable carry and deployment. I just can't get a secure grip around it. I would prefer the body to be slightly longer but well proportioned rather than short an squat but this is just my aesthetic preference.

Another one to chew on. If we're going to the effort of building a new platform from scratch, we might want to think about form factor, changing out power packs and other basic features and functions that are usually fixed in legacy platforms like the Mag, etc. Just how blank of a sheet do we want to start with? We might want to recall some of the things people came up with in the Project Fury thread.

Wilkey

I agree, I reviewed the "Project Fury" thread a week or so ago, and have been thinking about it since, but there are plusses and minuses to all the platforms.

I have big hands, but I like a form factor between the MagC's and MagD's, though smaller is better than larger as far as I'm concerned.

An EDC should be reasonably concealable and I think the D's (and the Tigerlight even more!) push that quite a bit. The Pila GL3 size is close to the top as far as EDC for me, and it is smaller than the 2C Mag.

But I'm one guy, who works in an office, so others may have better feel for that. I know my LEO and Firemen friends don't feel that the Mag3D or Tigerlights are necessarily too big. (Though I always wonder about the "mine is bigger than yours" mentality, that SOME of them have!)

Bill

For EDC everything is too big /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
But if I should EDC a bright incan it had to be Streamlight TL-3. Really impressive for its size. Now I just have to get some Pila 150S and try if the CA1499 works in it.

Sigbjoern

My Larrylight isn't too big!!

My ideal would be an incan Larrylight with 300 lumen output!

Probably have to have a mini-nuclear reactor with cold fusion going on, though! (js, would you hurry up on the cold fusion thing! Next thing you know it will be taking you as long as getting batteries from China for the USL!)

Bill

i am not sure who i concur with, because i dont know all the abreviations/brand names.

so i will use simple comparisons
the size of a 2AA mag, minus its fat head
ouput as bright as possible With. .
a full hour MINIMUM run time
no sharp edges, or even sharp textures
gotta FIT the pocket, and not put HOLEs in the pockets, damage other gadgets etc
can be dropped, about 15 times while running for the hour, i am not a clutz, but when your using 3-4 hands, and upside down and sideways, tools get dropped, and they shouldnt stop working when they do.
can be held in teeth /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif for a few seconds when you need more hands
must be rechargable, because it gets used
might as well have lithiums, or li-ions in it because they are light for the ammount of power
should have about a 15* beam pattern, but preferably a 3-50* beam pattern with no artifacts.
if you can meet all the above specs, i dont care if its a flintrock, a carbide, a led, or a tiki torch /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

anything else is just temporary, ya start using it to Do something, then it isnt there 1/2 the way through what your doing, and you have to stop in the middle of it, and get something that wont fit in your pocket.

if it isnt for the pocket, then anything as big as or under a 2D mag size (which is actually 3D cells long if used efficientally) then it has to run for a minimum of 2 hours.
and then it should certannly be brighter than the one i can hold in my teeth /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif oops, the one that fits in the pocket.

for an ideal powerful EDC.. look at the MM thread: http://mm.rouse.com things are coming to a head, and prototypes should be ordered very soon... release of the 'first run' will be dependent on when i can get quantities of K2 sbin emitters.. but 300 lumen is the estimated output at this time.. for a light that is less than 3 cubic inches and 1/2 inch on the narrowest dimensions..

output will dim basically in an 'analog' fashion.

The other light i'm working on is 100,200,300 or 400 lumens.. you decide.. mod for mag.. mine fits in a 1 1/2D.. but if you want to avoid 'fancy batteries' you'd be limited to the likes of 4C in a 3D for 4-LED or 3D stock with 3 emitters.. still an astounding light.. with a bonus of runtime from hell.. 10hrs full power.. 6000 lux.. from a drop-in mod.

anticiapted release: october.

-awr