Advantages of titanium?
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js
Flashlight Enthusiast
Just for "bling"?
OK. No.
Yes, Ti doesn't conduct heat quite as well as Al, and has a slightly higher electrical resistance than Al. True. But irrelevant. It conducts both heat and electricity more than well enough for the demands being placed upon it by any small, reasonable wattage flashlight. I mean, by these arguments, we should all be using copper because it is more conductive than aluminum! Give me a break! I mean, yes, if you are absolutely pushing the envelope and are forcing a lot of current through a bunch of high powered LED's, then, no, you don't want a Titanium head. But short of that, the lower heat conductivity of Titanium has little effect on the total heat transfer situation, and that's because the bottleneck for heat transfer is at the air/body junction (or hand/body junction), which involves not just conductive heat transfer but also radiative heat transfer (where Ti does quite well!), and where the heat transfer rate is the lowest of the whole system.
It's like saying that we need a five lane highway going up to a one lane bridge because a four lane highway doesn't carry as much traffic as a five lane highway. HELLO! It doesn't frigging matter because all the cars are backed up at the bridge anyway.
This is why heat sinks have all those fins on them to increase the surface area, which is like adding more lanes to the bridge, and it's also why the aluminum on heat sinks is anodized. The anodizing has a really crappy heat conductivity, but that is a trade off in order to gain a greater radiative heat transfer via a higher emissivity rating.
So yes, there's no question that if heat transfer really were a serious concern (like in a heat sink), you wouldn't use Titanium, but it's also true that heat transfer at the flashlight body is NOT a serious concern. At the LED die/heat sink junction, the story is different, and you want aluminum there, and all the Titanium lights I know of do indeed have aluminum heat sinks in contact with the LED dies, but after that, Titanium is no problem.
As for electrical conductivity, the amount of material involved in the conduction pathway is enormous--way, way bigger than electrical house wiring rated for 20 amps!--so the total resistance of both a titanium and aluminum bodied flashlight is so low as to be irrelevant.
But, what IS relevant in terms of electrical conductivity is contact resistance, and it's the reason why almost all aluminum lights are Chemkoted. They have to be. A bare aluminum to bare aluminum interface is prone to developing very high resistance, especially if it comes in contact with various elements. If I go out right now to a bunch of bar stock and try to measure the resistance of a length of it with a DMM, I would put my money on the titanium bar over the aluminum bar any frickin day of the week! That aluminum will probably have a high resistance surface film--an oxide. No fun.
Titanium, in sharp contrast, has a surface oxide that is nicely conductive.
So, no need to Chemkote. It's conductive through and through.
As for "bling", well, yes, Titanium does look and feel awesome. I (and many others) love it. But practically speaking, there is a much greater advantage to be gained in using titanium than looks: durability. If I drop an HA light onto concrete or any other hard surface chances are good I'll knock off a flake of hard anodize. This simply can't be repaired. Knock off enough of it, and the soft aluminum underneath wears away relatively quickly. Think I'm exaggerating? I used to think this line of argument was hyperbole too, at one point, but then I saw what had become of my brother's Arc AAA-LE. Almost all the HA was missing from it, and the bare aluminum there on the knurling points was worn away, leaving a very shiny, pretty smooth, and fairly ugly looking Arc AAA. And this was only three years of EDC carry on a keychain. Not really what I had expected from the vaunted HARD ANODIZE.
As McGizmo said in another thread--and I totally agree--it's nice to know that you will stop using a light because you got tired of it, and not because it got tired and worn. Titanium, being one thing through and through, can be completely resurfaced and reworked, even after a horrific marring and deformation of the surface. Here's a great example. Here are a pair of before and after pictures of a light which was being carried when the person got in a motorcycle accident. (The important thing is that he wasn't seriously injured, BTW) Check out what happened to his Ti-PD:
Nasty marks on the light! Not really very appealing. But, after some filing and sanding and metal working and polishing, look what happened:
Try that with an aluminum HA light!
Titanium is just a very, very appealing metal, both visually and tactilely. It looks great, it feels great. If that's "bling", well, OK, sign me up. But it's really not "bling". Bling is just "man jewelry", and a titanium light is far more than just that. You know that your Titanium light is going to last. Yes, if the circuit board is crap and isn't properly secured and you smack your light onto concrete, titanium won't make a bit of difference, but at least in the case of a McGizmo light you know that that link in the chain is just as well forged as all the other links in the chain.
I have dropped my LunaSol 20 onto a very very hard surface (ceramic) and it was completely unfazed and unaffected. Don's Titanium lights are known for being very drop resistant in general, in fact.
So . . .
Do you need to use Titanium? No. And you shouldn't use it if cost is a factor.
But if cost is no object do you want a titanium light over an HA aluminum light? HELL YES! But that's just me, I guess.
I wonder, though, how many of the anti-titanium posters here on CPF have actually used and handled a titanium light for more than a few minutes? It seems to me that most people who experience a titanium light aren't really interested in going back and find the extra expense to be well worth it.
Just a thought. YMMV.
OK. No.
Yes, Ti doesn't conduct heat quite as well as Al, and has a slightly higher electrical resistance than Al. True. But irrelevant. It conducts both heat and electricity more than well enough for the demands being placed upon it by any small, reasonable wattage flashlight. I mean, by these arguments, we should all be using copper because it is more conductive than aluminum! Give me a break! I mean, yes, if you are absolutely pushing the envelope and are forcing a lot of current through a bunch of high powered LED's, then, no, you don't want a Titanium head. But short of that, the lower heat conductivity of Titanium has little effect on the total heat transfer situation, and that's because the bottleneck for heat transfer is at the air/body junction (or hand/body junction), which involves not just conductive heat transfer but also radiative heat transfer (where Ti does quite well!), and where the heat transfer rate is the lowest of the whole system.
It's like saying that we need a five lane highway going up to a one lane bridge because a four lane highway doesn't carry as much traffic as a five lane highway. HELLO! It doesn't frigging matter because all the cars are backed up at the bridge anyway.
This is why heat sinks have all those fins on them to increase the surface area, which is like adding more lanes to the bridge, and it's also why the aluminum on heat sinks is anodized. The anodizing has a really crappy heat conductivity, but that is a trade off in order to gain a greater radiative heat transfer via a higher emissivity rating.
So yes, there's no question that if heat transfer really were a serious concern (like in a heat sink), you wouldn't use Titanium, but it's also true that heat transfer at the flashlight body is NOT a serious concern. At the LED die/heat sink junction, the story is different, and you want aluminum there, and all the Titanium lights I know of do indeed have aluminum heat sinks in contact with the LED dies, but after that, Titanium is no problem.
As for electrical conductivity, the amount of material involved in the conduction pathway is enormous--way, way bigger than electrical house wiring rated for 20 amps!--so the total resistance of both a titanium and aluminum bodied flashlight is so low as to be irrelevant.
But, what IS relevant in terms of electrical conductivity is contact resistance, and it's the reason why almost all aluminum lights are Chemkoted. They have to be. A bare aluminum to bare aluminum interface is prone to developing very high resistance, especially if it comes in contact with various elements. If I go out right now to a bunch of bar stock and try to measure the resistance of a length of it with a DMM, I would put my money on the titanium bar over the aluminum bar any frickin day of the week! That aluminum will probably have a high resistance surface film--an oxide. No fun.
Titanium, in sharp contrast, has a surface oxide that is nicely conductive.
So, no need to Chemkote. It's conductive through and through.
As for "bling", well, yes, Titanium does look and feel awesome. I (and many others) love it. But practically speaking, there is a much greater advantage to be gained in using titanium than looks: durability. If I drop an HA light onto concrete or any other hard surface chances are good I'll knock off a flake of hard anodize. This simply can't be repaired. Knock off enough of it, and the soft aluminum underneath wears away relatively quickly. Think I'm exaggerating? I used to think this line of argument was hyperbole too, at one point, but then I saw what had become of my brother's Arc AAA-LE. Almost all the HA was missing from it, and the bare aluminum there on the knurling points was worn away, leaving a very shiny, pretty smooth, and fairly ugly looking Arc AAA. And this was only three years of EDC carry on a keychain. Not really what I had expected from the vaunted HARD ANODIZE.
As McGizmo said in another thread--and I totally agree--it's nice to know that you will stop using a light because you got tired of it, and not because it got tired and worn. Titanium, being one thing through and through, can be completely resurfaced and reworked, even after a horrific marring and deformation of the surface. Here's a great example. Here are a pair of before and after pictures of a light which was being carried when the person got in a motorcycle accident. (The important thing is that he wasn't seriously injured, BTW) Check out what happened to his Ti-PD:
Nasty marks on the light! Not really very appealing. But, after some filing and sanding and metal working and polishing, look what happened:
Try that with an aluminum HA light!
Titanium is just a very, very appealing metal, both visually and tactilely. It looks great, it feels great. If that's "bling", well, OK, sign me up. But it's really not "bling". Bling is just "man jewelry", and a titanium light is far more than just that. You know that your Titanium light is going to last. Yes, if the circuit board is crap and isn't properly secured and you smack your light onto concrete, titanium won't make a bit of difference, but at least in the case of a McGizmo light you know that that link in the chain is just as well forged as all the other links in the chain.
I have dropped my LunaSol 20 onto a very very hard surface (ceramic) and it was completely unfazed and unaffected. Don's Titanium lights are known for being very drop resistant in general, in fact.
So . . .
Do you need to use Titanium? No. And you shouldn't use it if cost is a factor.
But if cost is no object do you want a titanium light over an HA aluminum light? HELL YES! But that's just me, I guess.
I wonder, though, how many of the anti-titanium posters here on CPF have actually used and handled a titanium light for more than a few minutes? It seems to me that most people who experience a titanium light aren't really interested in going back and find the extra expense to be well worth it.
Just a thought. YMMV.
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js
Flashlight Enthusiast
That may have been part of the reason, but the more important reason for using titanium in these situations is that it holds up much better to repeated stress reversals. In other words, take a paper clip and bend in one direction. OK, no problem. Bend it some more in the same direction. Still no problem. But, start repeatedly reversing directions and you've got a problem. The metal at the stress point rearranges itself and becomes highly brittle there and snaps. Most steel and aluminum alloys are both prone to this.
Titanium and its alloys hold up better, in general, in these situations. And also in any situations, like for an aircraft landing strut, where there is repeated impact stress.
This is why titanium is considered highly durable, and why the highest grade bolts and fasteners are made from titanium.
easilyled
Flashaholic
Very convincing argument js.
However you have forgotten by far the most important advantage of Aluminium which is:-
I wouldn't feel nearly as bad if I lost an Al light compared to losing a Ti light.
However you have forgotten by far the most important advantage of Aluminium which is:-
I wouldn't feel nearly as bad if I lost an Al light compared to losing a Ti light.
js
Flashlight Enthusiast
easilyled,
Indeed! But I can see from your sigline that that hasn't deterred you from owning some pretty freaking spectacular Ti lights!
everyone,
One more little advantage of using a Titanium body, which Don mentioned in the last thread on this subject:
If the LED heatsink is made from aluminum, and the body is made from Titanium, then as the aluminum heat sink heats up in use, its great coefficient of expansion vs. titanium means that that mechanical junction gets mated all the better due to the increased force of the aluminum heat sink as it tries to expand against the titanium body. This ensures an excellent thermal joint at this junction. Nice little side benefit of using a titanium body.
Indeed! But I can see from your sigline that that hasn't deterred you from owning some pretty freaking spectacular Ti lights!
everyone,
One more little advantage of using a Titanium body, which Don mentioned in the last thread on this subject:
If the LED heatsink is made from aluminum, and the body is made from Titanium, then as the aluminum heat sink heats up in use, its great coefficient of expansion vs. titanium means that that mechanical junction gets mated all the better due to the increased force of the aluminum heat sink as it tries to expand against the titanium body. This ensures an excellent thermal joint at this junction. Nice little side benefit of using a titanium body.
AA6TZ
Enlightened
Oddjob
Flashlight Enthusiast
These are the pictures I was referring to. Thanks JS.
Just for "bling"? ...
...Here's a great example. Here are a pair of before and after pictures of a light which was being carried when the person got in a motorcycle accident. (The important thing is that he wasn't seriously injured, BTW) Check out what happened to his Ti-PD:
Nasty marks on the light! Not really very appealing. But, after some filing and sanding and metal working and polishing, look what happened:
Try that with an aluminum HA light!...
Last edited by a moderator:
Wardind
Newly Enlightened
1.Titanium the most corrosion resistant industrial metal.Virtually acid & salt water proof.
2.Titanium is lighter than steel.
3.Titanium(6Al4V) is stronger than all but speciality alloy steels.
4. Although Titanium is slightly heavier than aluminum it is much stronger,corrosion & abrasion resistant than any Aluminum grade.
5. Titanium has a unique exotic precision aircraft look that is like no other metal.
6. Titanium is a refractory metal in some alloys has great strength under high heat.
Wade Nye
2.Titanium is lighter than steel.
3.Titanium(6Al4V) is stronger than all but speciality alloy steels.
4. Although Titanium is slightly heavier than aluminum it is much stronger,corrosion & abrasion resistant than any Aluminum grade.
5. Titanium has a unique exotic precision aircraft look that is like no other metal.
6. Titanium is a refractory metal in some alloys has great strength under high heat.
Wade Nye
jzmtl
Flashlight Enthusiast
It again come back to that none of the advantages will come into play as far as flashlight is concerned, except in very rare freak accident like JS posted.
Marduke
Flashaholic
Just don't clean the threads with methanol....
I havn't tried this.. Would methanol really hurt Titanium??
Marduke
Flashaholic
Methanol (a common component of many cleaning solvents) will cause stress corrosion cracking in titanium.
Th232
Flashlight Enthusiast
Ouch... any other common chems that should be avoided (e.g. ethanol)?
Guy's Dropper
Enlightened
Maybe some day I'll get a McGizmo Ti light, but right now, when none of my aluminum lights have failed due to wear, I cannot justify the cost, let alone afford it.
carrot
Flashaholic
DonShock
Flashlight Enthusiast
For the items I wear on a necklace 24/7, the main reason for going Ti is the corrosion resistance, light weight, and no skin reactions. I had some prior items in both Al and SS. I carried fewer items and the weight was very noticable. After a fairly short time, the surface finish would become very dingy. And occasionally, it would start to irritate the skin and I would need to take a break from wearing for a week or so. And Bling is not an issue since it's always worn under my shirt.
js
Flashlight Enthusiast
jzmtl,
It's true that the high yield strength of 6-4 Ti is irrelevant for flashlight use. Totally, completely agree.
Also, despite the high yield strength, Ti is actually softer than steel, and thus will scratch more easily. I think I remember hearing about a watch company that has figured out how to surface/case harden Titanium to work around this, but I don't have any links or stats.
So, the freak accident isn't the issue. The advantage I spoke about wasn't that the Ti light didn't break during the accident!!!. The advantage is that after the accident, the light was able to be re-surfaced and brought back to a beautiful looking finish and light. And the softness (relatively--still a lot harder than bare Al) actually helps with that re-surfacing.
But, it doesn't require a freak accident for one to appreciate that advantage! Drop your light on concrete? Put a serious ding or scratch in it somewhere? No problem. It can be worked out, if you want. Plus, the wear and tear on the titanium body actually accumulates into an appealing patina, much like Platinum. It looks good all scratched up.
The same can NOT be said for Aluminum with an HA finish! Flake bits of that off, and add some scratches, and it just doesn't look (or feel) good. And do enough of that and the bare aluminum underneath wears away at a worrying rate.
THOSE are the advantages! Not the super high yield strength. That's just kinda cool.
js
Flashlight Enthusiast
carrot,
Thanks for the info. Kinda makes a person wonder where and when you might run into 96 percent pure methanol! Holy cow! Personally, I'm not worried about that possibility.
Thanks for the info. Kinda makes a person wonder where and when you might run into 96 percent pure methanol! Holy cow! Personally, I'm not worried about that possibility.
jzmtl
Flashlight Enthusiast
The biology lab I used to work at use lab grade pure methanol for a lot of protein work, and bromine too. Good thing I didn't have any titanium watch or such. :duck:
