Are these lights getting too complicated?

LedTed

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Mar 7, 2010
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Hello all,

I think that NiteCore took the complications out of everyday use while still providing the user several choices of operation.

I can activate my D10 with a simple push. As the last mode/setting is automatically remembered by the flashlight, the utility is on/off.

I just switch between Lo and Hi as the last mode; for night light and work light as needed.
 

MustardMan

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Sep 26, 2009
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I'm also a big fan of simple UI's. I like the tail button + bezel twist combo, but my ideal would go like this:

Bezel tightened: high. That's it, one mode
Bezel loose: cycle through moonlight, low, med, and I guess the stupid strobes if you have to include them. Default to low.

That way you've got two well defined behaviors - tighten the bezel and you've got high every time, loosen it and you always turn on at low and can go brighter if needed. Simple and straightforward.


There are lots of lights that I like on paper, but then lose interest when I find out about their UI's.
 

MikeG1P315

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Feb 16, 2006
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I've had and loved an HDS, Novatac, and Ra. Great, well thought out interfaces for a single button.

But my needs only ever required high and low low. So, I tried the nitecore smart PD, most because I am too cheap to buy a McGizmo PD. I was not terribly happy with the lights. I really liked what I'd read about McGizmo's PD and the Nitecores were quite different.

I now have an Arc6 I just got. It's my perfect light. Push for low, push more for high. Or twist for constant on low, twist more for constant high. Perfect for me, but as an EDC pocket flashlight. My bedside for checking out late nite odd noises? Cheapo 2xaa lights with lithium aa's. Emergency lights? Surefire g2 led and Mag 3-C.
 

DimeRazorback

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I like the concept of less is more.

I love McGizmo's three speed; low, medium & high as an edc light.

However, in a more stressful situation, I much prefer either single mode, or Surefire's twostage twsity UI's. Either way, I can get high immediately.

I am not a fan of having to cycle through strobe or sos modes.
 

angelofwar

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I'm also a big fan of simple UI's. I like the tail button + bezel twist combo, but my ideal would go like this:

Bezel tightened: high. That's it, one mode
Bezel loose: cycle through moonlight, low, med, and I guess the stupid strobes if you have to include them. Default to low.

That way you've got two well defined behaviors - tighten the bezel and you've got high every time, loosen it and you always turn on at low and can go brighter if needed. Simple and straightforward.


There are lots of lights that I like on paper, but then lose interest when I find out about their UI's.

Hmmm...a 2 or 3 setting U2...now that's an Idea...
 

MikeG1P315

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I like the concept of less is more.

I am not a fan of having to cycle through strobe or sos modes.

THIS. This is a big reason why I liked Henry's lights. Even though they were multimode, you could go directly where you wanted. Same with McGizmo's PD and Arc's PD. I don't want to fiddle with cycling through modes I don't need NOW.
 

1138

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however perhaps those principles are better applied to designing ATMs and self service checkouts, rather then specialist tools designed for an expert audience.

On the contrary, human factors engineering is extremely important in aviation, process controls (you don't want your operator confused at a nuclear power plant) and other mission-critical operational environments. Everyone is an expert in those environments, but they need good design. In fact, the military and NASA pioneered a lot of the early human factors engineering work. In a lot of cases, disasters happened because people made mistakes that they shouldn't have made given their training. These mistakes were eventually traced to counterintuitive design, or designs that overwhelmed the user with information at a critical time.

In practice the people who are buying these more complex torches are happy with them, and to them they are an improvement over a torch without those extra shortcuts and programmable flexibility. So again, I see it as a good design, because for me it is in practice a more useful design.

What you're saying is that you like the number of features that can be exposed by just pressing the button. That says nothing about whether it's actually a good user interface, which can be objectively analyzed. People can still adapt to and learn how to use nearly any UI, no matter how cumbersome. That does not make it a good design. And people are free to say that it's not worth the effort to learn without being branded as ignorant of technology by you.

I don't feel that learning one more is such a huge burden, especially not when I get tangible benefits in return.

You are certainly free to feel that way. But, you should not belittle anyone else who chooses not to memorize completely arbitrary user interfaces by implying that they "struggle with modern technology".

Every single human has limited capacity for memorizing arbitrary designs. Your memory will stay intact as long as you reinforce it all the time. And the simpler the action, the easier it is to remember and the easier it is to take the correct action subconsciously. It is perfectly fine for someone to say that something is too complicated to use and not use it; this does not mean that they don't know how to use technology.

"violate(s) practically every principle of human factors engineering" will continue to sell well.

Amongst CPF users, yes, but amongst the general public? Absolutely not. Amongst technologically-literate people who don't obsess about flashlights? Again, no.

To say that programming a multi-function light with a single button should be intuitive and transparent enough that anyone anyone can program/operate it is, well... wrong.

You misunderstand. I am pointing out that programmable flashlights, by their very nature, have poor user interfaces. They can't be made intuitive or transparent, thus they have poor user interfaces.

The main point, though, is that a person should be to say "Because programmable lights are not intuitive, I do not want to use them" without being labeled as technologically backwards.

But yes, a standardized UI would go a long way towards making it more acceptable. However, I would prefer brightness selector ring and on / off button over ANY programmable light.
 
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guiri

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I think so. I gave away my Jetbeam III just because of that and I'm selling my NItecore Extreme (when I can find it) just because of that and I'm NOT buying anything that's not simple and I now have (except for my entire cheapo light collection that I"m selling) the TA21, D10, Zebra SC30 and Quark AA Titanium. ALL with simple interfaces.
 

prof

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Sep 2, 2005
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When I first started reading CPF, someone was working on a flashlight design that included a usb connection. The idea centered on being able to set the levels with a pc. I don't know what happened to the idea, but it seems to have vanished. Does anyone else remember this?

Personally I love the simplicity of the L1 style interface--push harder for more light! I'd love to see 3 levels with that simplicity. Oh well...
 

greenLED

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I'm waiting for them to start having micro usb ports so you can program them via the computer, but that will be a problem for me as I doubt they port the program software to LINUX...:naughty:

Brian
Search for "Indium Smart"... been there, done that, but the idea never quite took off.

IMO, yes, a lot of lights are WAAAAY to gimmicky these days.
 

KuKu427

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Jan 2, 2009
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I have a confession to make.... the LF2XT full user interface intimidates me at times... :green:
I have to be in the right "mood" to mess with the FUI so 98% of the time I leave it in compact mode.

It's a matter of versatility vs complexity. It's hard to have this much versatility and programability accessible via one push button. It would be nice to have another input device via slider/head twist or whatever but that creates more mechanical complexity which can lead to more mechanical failures.

However, I am a big fan of infinitely variable output. Last night I clipped a 2XT to a mini-tripod and pointed it at the ceiling with the output level adjusted to just the right level to create the proper ambiance for the GF. :eek: Hard to do with a 2 or 3 mode light or even candles.

As for the Mini-USB interface... I think it would be a lot easier if manufacturers left contact points on the driver instead of installing a plug. The plug takes up space which is at a premium in flashlights. With contact points, the user would have a "dock" to plug the pill/driver into for programing.

I hope my following statement isn't taken as advertising as I am saying it to give relief to those who are vexed with overly complicated lights. Help is on the way. :tinfoil:
 

kramer5150

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I have yet to find a UI that I could not operate, with a little time and repetition. so, no I don't find them too complicated.
 

Databyter

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Oct 12, 2005
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San Diego
I don't think the lights are getting too complicated, but their description is getting a little off track. I refer to the "tactical" flashlights, often sold with impressive looking pics of SWAT teams holding them, that have multiple levels. :thinking:

Many of our members are in the kicking down doors to get bad guys business, and I'm pretty sure that none of them want their flashlight cycling between low, medium and high on every click while doing that door kicking!
Why would they be cycling between kicks? If they do then it is a poor switch.

There is something to be said for a multi level tactical light that can be turned down in rural areas to preserve more night vision and improve contrast, and be on turbo in a mixed lighting urban environment.

This is true on weapon lights especially that point with the weapon. You don't need to always blind yourself as you check an area.

The point is how those choices are selected (should be quick,easy and definite), and how many there are (fewer is better as long as enough for the purpose).

A tactical light with two programmable modes that are one bezel turn away are sweet. And when doing the programming (before the raid) more choices or a ramping design is great.

Once you get there you just need to decide which mode to use. It's not going to change modes on you if the selection device is a good one (like a bezel ring).

Another feature of a tactical looking light is use with gloves, or enhanced rings or knurling on the body for glove grip, or loop wear, or weapon mounting.

Yea some of it is hype, but not all of it.

I know alot of Cops, and a few Seals, and yea simple is good, but your characterization of what is not needed is not accurate for the real world. At least not for the guys that I know that want the beam that they want, and the grip or hold that they want.
 
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bluepilgrim

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Dec 29, 2008
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illinois
[...]
The main point, though, is that a person should be to say "Because programmable lights are not intuitive, I do not want to use them" without being labeled as technologically backwards.
[...]

I think simple and intuitive is better -- and I was a professional computer programmer. Designing a human-oriented interface is, in fact, an important part of programming (and too often neglected or done badly).

If someone wants more complicated options / preferences, then I would go for my sliding side switch as mentioned above and could add programming on a twist interface, which would require two hands and be complicated but not generally done when the light is in use, or require a fast interface because there is a 'situation' in progress.
 

lumitoid

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Jun 18, 2002
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Twisty, Battery crusher. Thays the way I like to go. If I want low mode I put my hand over the front. Keep it simple. No springs to break. Never had a switch fail.
 

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