BYD, threat to US automakers or the new VW BUG?

[sim1tti]

Getting very sick and tired of how some EV proponents are constantly using the word "fear" to describe how others arrive at their thoughts. My position on government forcing EV's is based on logic, and understanding of individual rights. Not some vague, emotional propaganda word like "fear".

Opposition to government initiatives and state mandates is easy to understand. I don't think they should be so quickly attributed to fear as it's not difficult to see how there could be a perceived conflict between EV initiatives and the freedom to easily travel.

That said, I also don't think the concern is too warranted and have elaborated here, here, here, and here.

To summarize my own opinion, those concerns are born of the assumption that society will simultaneously not improve upon the shortcomings and will be inflexible about the mandates. It seems much more likely that we will continue to mitigate issues such as EV battery cost, access to charging, range, etc. Also that laws and regulations will be retooled as we get closer to their dates. My bet is that an EV road trip in 15 or 20 years will look near identical to an ICEV road trip today.

Edit: added "don't", typos.

 

[mrfixitman]

Since when is vice a legitimate news source?

I rank it with PBS, DW or France 24. https://www.biasly.com/sources/vice-bias-rating/

 

[mrfixitman]

Opposition to government initiatives and state mandates is easy to understand. I don't think they should be so quickly attributed to fear as it's not difficult to see how there could be a perceived conflict between EV initiatives and the freedom to easily travel.

That said, I also don't think the concern is too warranted and have elaborated here, here, here, and here.

To summarize my own opinion, those concerns are born of the assumption that society will simultaneously not improve upon the shortcomings and will be inflexible about the mandates. It seems much more likely that we will continue to mitigate issues such as EV battery cost, access to charging, range, etc. Also that laws and regulations will be retooled as we get closer to their dates. My bet is that an EV road trip in 15 or 20 years will look near identical to an ICEV road trip today.

Edit: added "don't", typos.

Seems road trips via EV have been no big deal in a Tesla for a decade.

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...-road-trip-1200-west-coast-electric-car-miles Here is a longer trip. Still no big deal...if you believe the author. https://electrek.co/2022/10/08/2200mi-electric-roadtrip-it-was-easy-so-whats-the-big-deal/

 

[mrfixitman]

I highly recommend this Nova on PBS from 2020. They put things in language you can easily understand.

Polar Extremes

Season 47, Episode 1

Following a trail of fossils found in all the wrong places beech trees in Antarctica, redwoods and hippo-like mammals in the Arctic -- uncover the bizarre history of the poles, from miles-thick ice sheets to warm polar forests teeming with life.


Rating - TVPG
HDTV - 1080i
Audio - Stereo
Language - English
Original Broadcast/Premiere - 2020

 

[sim1tti]

Tesla's been way ahead of the game with their infrastructure. Rapid charge stations not as available as gas stations, but a little planning gets Tesla owners anywhere they want to be (as you've mentioned).

Not available to all EVs though, and as early adoption becomes mass adoption the powers that be are lagging with rapid charge for all with charge stations as numerous/accessable as gas stations are right now. That needs to happen.

Currently the average midsize ICEV has a hiway range of about 400 miles. When the guage hits E, there's almost always a gas station right there, no planning necessary. I think EV owners can expect the exact same convenience in 15 years (depending on the state), but the fill up may take marginally longer. Will likely remain cheaper, too.

Sober prediction, and gas stations will still be around for the ICE cars. Zero encroachmnt to freedom of travel.

 

[sim1tti]

@mrfixitman I think what you may not be totally grasping is that most people will not consider EVs a suitable replacement for ICEVs until they can provide the same ease of travel that gas currently provides. On every level, no significant compromises. That means, price of the car, range of a tank, access to refueling...all of it. Anything less will be considered breach of freedom.

That also means not having to plan refuel stops. Not just on trafficked corridors. Everywhere. So even Tesla's current networking in Ca is not enough. People don't want to tag four hours onto a 10 hour road trip. People want to be able to charge at night if they don't have parking.

Tiny little town in the mountains?... Rapid charge for everyone, right there. One-light gas stop in the middle of the dessert?....Rapid charge, right there. Six-story walk up with no parking gargage?....figure it out.

I actually think it'll happen, and soon. Inevitably. No (real) compromises, but maybe a few acceptable exchanges.

It's just going to take 15 or 20 years for 100%.

 

[mrfixitman]

Tesla's been way ahead of the game with their infrastructure. Rapid charge stations not as available as gas stations, but a little planning gets Tesla owners anywhere they want to be (as you've mentioned).

Not available to all EVs though, and as early adoption becomes mass adoption the powers that be are lagging with rapid charge for all with charge stations as numerous/accessable as gas stations are right now. That needs to happen.

Currently the average midsize ICEV has a hiway range of about 400 miles. When the guage hits E, there's almost always a gas station right there, no planning necessary. I think EV owners can expect the exact same convenience in 15 years (depending on the state), but the fill up may take marginally longer. Will likely remain cheaper, too.

Sober prediction, and gas stations will still be around for the ICE cars. Zero encroachmnt to freedom of travel.

I can't emphasize enough, on long trips you have to stop for many reasons, consumption, excretion, etc..while doing these things it is the perfect opportunity to charge. If you drive a Tesla it's been like that for more than a decade. I started my trip today in Modesto. Job in Merced. Back to San Francisco. All at highway speeds. No need to charge. It was only a couple hundred miles. For a vast majority of people charging takes only a few seconds of your time.

 

[letschat7]

You know it would be cool if Apple made an EV and in parking spots was wireless charging.

 

[mrfixitman]

You know it would be cool if Apple made an EV and in parking spots was wireless charging.

They put 10 billion into that and then dumped it. Others are working on it. However I don't mind the 10 seconds it takes to plug in. I do mind the extra cost.

 

[ItnStln]

You know it would be cool if Apple made an EV and in parking spots was wireless charging.

Wasn't wireless charging for EVS rumored to happen? Rumored

 

[ItnStln]

I can't emphasize enough, on long trips you have to stop for many reasons, consumption, excretion, etc..while doing these things it is the perfect opportunity to charge.

Nice deflection! I can refuel my car to full, take a **** and be back on the road in about 5 minutes. How long will that take in an EV?

 

[letschat7]

Wasn't wireless charging for EVS rumored to happen? Rumored

I don't know it is just a logical guess since we have this concept with mobile phones. Unilite has a charger for that and some special models of flashlights. Next it will be for autos unless some patent nonsense ruins it.

Still we are many decades away from widespread EV use.

 

[Glenn7]

Interesting about EV's

And feeling hungry? Spit oil

Some interesting truths on that channel.

 

[mrfixitman]

@mrfixitman I think what you may not be totally grasping is that most people will not consider EVs a suitable replacement for ICEVs until they can provide the same ease of travel that gas currently provides. On every level, no significant compromises. That means, price of the car, range of a tank, access to refueling...all of it. Anything less will be considered breach of freedom.

That also means not having to plan refuel stops. Not just on trafficked corridors. Everywhere. So even Tesla's current networking in Ca is not enough. People don't want to tag four hours onto a 10 hour road trip. People want to be able to charge at night if they don't have parking.

.

You really do want egg in your beer. So spoiled, you don't mind breathing poison.

Nice deflection! I can refuel my car to full, take a **** and be back on the road in about 5 minutes. How long will that take in an EV?

20 minutes on average. Seems you are faster than most people. When do you eat? Stretch your legs. etc... that is when I would charge. 5 minutes is not enough time to relax and recharge your body. We're not all robots like you.

 

[sim1tti]

You really do want egg in your beer. So spoiled, you don't mind breathing poison.

That ain't me. Check yourself.

 

[mrfixitman]

You really do want egg in your beer. So spoiled, you don't mind breathing poison.

20 minutes on average. Seems you are faster than most people. When do you eat? Stretch your legs. etc... that is when I would charge.

That ain't me. Check yourself.

15 to 20 year estimate is saying it hasn't been done for the last decade. Now in my opinion it's simply price parody. Electricity is everywhere.

 

[Bimmerboy]

What you say is a free market means you can f#@+ in my face with no repercussions. There will be a repercussions.

That is not at all what a free market means. Read some Ludwig Von Mises or something for cryin' out loud.

No one is doing anything in your face. Just people trying to live their lives without interference from those who falsely perceive themselves as victims, making vague threats about "repercussions".

The non-insane, oops (haha) I mean the healthy perspective begins with being thankful for these polluting machines over the past couple hundred years as they have raised both the standard of living, and life expectancy across the globe. This has only come about through whatever semblance, or degree of a free market that has existed thus far. If this is understood, then we might be able to have a conversation.

 

[letschat7]

CPF is so few people to convince to use EVs. They can't even agree on LED vs Incan or Primary vs Akku.

I wonder why there isn't all the people around trying to talk others into using a horse and buggy like the Amish do? That is eco-friendly.

 

[mrfixitman]

That is not at all what a free market means. Read some Ludwig Von Mises or something for cryin' out loud.

No one is doing anything in your face. Just people trying to live their lives without interference from those who falsely perceive themselves as victims, making vague threats about "repercussions".

The non-insane, oops (haha) I mean the healthy perspective begins with being thankful for these polluting machines over the past couple hundred years as they have raised both the standard of living, and life expectancy across the globe. This has only come about through whatever semblance, or degree of a free market that has existed thus far. If this is understood, then we might be able to have a conversation.

Enough with the raising, time for cleaning. The Model Y is the best selling car in the world. People see the value. Politicians and regulators should do the right thing and clean up. Lives will be saved. Quality of life will be enhanced, however with quicker cars, more Darwins will be awarded.

 

[sim1tti]

15 to 20 year estimate is saying it hasn't been done for the last decade. Now in my opinion it's simply price parody. Electricity is everywhere.

If you had a differnt EV, lived in an apartment, and found yourself frequently driving to more remote places beyond the range provided by your battery, you might find it decidedly less convenient.

I'm saying for everyone to have an EV (not just Tesla owners living houses, in California), it will take 15 or 20 years for every American road trip to be as convenient as it is for ICEV owners right now.

if you believe that intuition makes me "so spoiled" or that I "don't mind breathing poison," well, I don't know what to tell you. A bit obtuse given the things I've said in these threads.

Or perhaps you just enjoy battling anyone with even a slightly divergent opinion than your own.