G&P's newest tactical: 12V miniturbo

[Paul_in_Maryland]

- The X-12 and T-12 are the same unit, but the X-12 has the mini turbo head, and both interchange parts with the SF units. Does this include the SF lamps?

Yes.

- The T-9 and T-12 use lamp assemblies designed for 1.25-inch heads. The X-9 and X-12 use the same bulb but the sputtered aluminum reflector is MUCH wider. So again, does this means that the SF lamps (P90/92 for the 3xcell) fit all of these?[/QUOTE]No, because Surefire (like Wolf Eyes and Pila) welds the lamp to the reflector. I'd like to use my RICO Alpha 9 250-lumen 9V lamp (bulb) in the G&P reflector. The lamp easily unscrews from the RICO reflector. but its shoulder is too large to fit the G&P miniturbo reflector.

Then there are higher quality variations of these with glass lenses, but some that don't share the interchangeability with the SF units. And that is when I get lost

Would it be too much to ask for a simple table that lists which models are compatible with what?

That's a great idea, Will. and I'm definitely the man to create it! I'll try to do it this weekend (in a separately titled thread under Incandescents). If I don't come through, send me a PM weekly till I do! What we're talking about is a table that sorts out the quality levels and compatibility (part by part) of Surefire-compatible (T and X series) lineups from G&P, LEDWave, Digilight USA, Camillus, and any other brand we can think of.

 

[wquiles]

Thanks much Paul. I certainly look forward to it

Will

 

[Paul_in_Maryland]

This evening, using a simple hand file, I removed the multicoated glass from a 43mm lens filter. Ta-daaah! It fits in the G*P 43mm miniturbo head just fine. I got mine--a Fotofox--on eBay for about $12 shipped. Search for Fotodiox 43mm UV filter. For other sizes, search for Fotodiox UV filter.

For other brands, search for 43mm filter UV MC or 43mm filter UV multicoated.

I'd guess that these multicoated filters transmit more light than the glass in Digilight's miniturbo.

 

[Action]

I bit the bullet and ordered an X-12. It'll be interesting to see how it looks and works...

To remove the glass, did you just file through the edges of the filter holder?

 

[Paul_in_Maryland]

Yes. The first time, it took me about 300 strokes of the file. The second time, about 250.

See my thread on removing the glass from a photographic lens filter.

 

[lexina]

The T-9 and T-12 use lamp assemblies designed for 1.25-inch heads. The X-9 and X-12 use the same bulb but the sputtered aluminum reflector is MUCH wider(38mm, as I recall) and the head (bezel) is 1.62 inches (41mm), like the Streamlight TL-3.

Hi, Paul,

For more flexibility, I am considering getting an X9 together with a G&P 1-cell extender instead of an X12 to run the G12 lamp on 4 CR123s. I may also sometimes wish to run a 9V lamp using 2 protected 17670s on the same setup. I seem to recall however, that you mentioned in one of your posts that the G&P extender was too narrow for the 17670s. Is that the case?

Secondly, as you pointed out above, the lamp assemblies for the X9 and X12 have larger reflectors than those for the T9 and T12. Does this mean that lamp assemblies for the X-series would not fit into the T-series and conversely, a P90/G90 lamp assembly, for eg., would be too small for the X9? Thanks.

 

[Paul_in_Maryland]

For more flexibility, I am considering getting an X9 together with a G&P 1-cell extender instead of an X12 to run the G12 lamp on 4 CR123s.

A good idea, but be careful not to leave the 9V lamp in place when you apply 12V.

I may also sometimes wish to run a 9V lamp using 2 protected 17670s on the same setup. I seem to recall however, that you mentioned in one of your posts that the G&P extender was too narrow for the 17670s. Is that the case?

Yes. Use a Surefire A19 extender, or volunteer to find out for us whether the bargain-priced Power-Up 1-cell extender ($10 shipped on eBay) will fit! It's made by airsoft maker King Arms.

Secondly, as you pointed out above, the lamp assemblies for the X9 and X12 have larger reflectors than those for the T9 and T12. Does this mean that lamp assemblies for the X-series would not fit into the T-series and conversely, a P90/G90 lamp assembly, for eg., would be too small for the X9? Thanks.

Yes on both counts: The miniturbo lamp assembly will be too wide and deep to fit the T9/T12 "tactical" heads, and a P90/G90 lamp assembly will be far too shallow to fit work in the X9/X12 miniturbo head.

I wish I could state with authority that the bulbs used in the two reflectors are identical. But I've lost track of which of my G&P-made bulbs came from which G&P-made reflector. I've moved them back and forth between reflectors, and they work, but I can't say whether they work "as well" when placed in the other reflector.

What would REALLY be cool would be if someone could figure out how to fit a RICO Alpha 9 lamp (more than 200 lumens using two Pilas, with the efficiency of a G90) in a G&P reflector. As I illustrate in my Alpha 9 lamp review, the lamp's shoulder is a hair too wide to slip into a G&P reflector. If you file off the reflector's threaded ferrule, the RICO would fit but there'd be no threads to keep it securely in place. You know, I have two G&P miniturbo reflectors and some G&P tactical reflectors from lamps I've hot-flashed; I think I'll file off the ferrule and see if the RICO will work. If I haven't reported the results by the end of November, please, someone, send me a PM to remind me!

 

[lexina]

Yes. Use a Surefire A19 extender, or volunteer to find out for us whether the bargain-priced Power-Up 1-cell extender ($10 shipped on eBay) will fit! It's made by airsoft maker King Arms.

Yes on both counts: The miniturbo lamp assembly will be too wide and deep to fit the T9/T12 "tactical" heads, and a P90/G90 lamp assembly will be far too shallow to fit work in the X9/X12 miniturbo head.

I've moved them back and forth between reflectors, and they work, but I can't say whether they work "as well" when placed in the other reflector.

Thanks, Paul. I guess my best option for a 4-cell would be to get the X9 since I already have an A19 for my 6P. Hopefully, the A19 will fit on the X9. Surprisingly, I couldn't fit the A19 on my G&P T-8; it starts threading fine but stops short.

From what you wrote above, it seems that if I want to use my P90 on the X9+A19 (using 2 17670s), I would need to swap the bulbs. Is this easily done? I have never tried taking out the bulb from any of the P60s/P90s that I have.

Finally, do you know if the mini-turbo head from the X9 fits the P6? I may have to move the mini-turbo head to the 6P and use 2 A19s if my A19 can't fit on the X9.

Thanks again.
Alex

 

[Paul_in_Maryland]

Surprisingly, I couldn't fit the A19 on my G&P T-8; it starts threading fine but stops short.

And my G&P tactical head (glass lens) won't screw all the way onto my LEDWave body...but my Surefire Z44 tactical head will! I don't understand.

From what you wrote above, it seems that if I want to use my P90 on the X9+A19 (using 2 17670s), I would need to swap the bulbs. Is this easily done? I have never tried taking out the bulb from any of the P60s/P90s that I have.

Alex, sorry, but you can't remove the bulb from a Surefire lamp assembly P60 or P90. The bulb and reflector are joined together. But why bother? I doubt you'll see an improvement over the G90 lamp. In fact, depending on which published specs you believe (120 lumens, 140, 175...), the high-pressure xenon G90 may be brighter than the P90.

Finally, do you know if the mini-turbo head from the X9 fits the P6?

It should. This is the first time anyone's mentioned it, but I've been wondering when someone would try to use this head on a 2x123A body. I can see it now: G&P's 5W LED miniturbo on a 2-cell body, powered by two RCR123A cells!

I may have to move the mini-turbo head to the 6P and use 2 A19s if my A19 can't fit on the X9.

The Surefire A19 should fit the X9 perfectly. I use an A19 (or sometimes, an A14) on my LEDWave Z-3.

 

[Paul_in_Maryland]

What if I wanted to attach (2) A19 extenders to this body to run 3 x 17670 batteries to the 12V light?

Action, you've inspired me. I've just ordered a second A19 ($17 shipped from LPS Tactical) and will use it with three Wolf Eyes 168B cells. The 3x150B cells were barely getting me through a week of street crossings. I'll keep the 150B cells in my bag to use as spares (with one A19 extender removed).

I wish I had three of AW's 17670 protected cells to try; at 1600 mAh, they should have enough "juice" to power the 12V lamp (1.8A, by my estimate) with a single click.

 

[lexina]

I've just ordered a second A19 ($17 shipped from LPS Tactical) and will use it with three Wolf Eyes 168B cells.

Hi Paul,

Do let us know when your A19 arrives, if the 3 168Bs works well with your Z3 plus 2 A19s.

I currently have a 6P and an A19. I have just ordered a G12 bulb from emillion and a King's Arm 1-cell extender. Finally, we will know if the King's Arm is compatible with the 6P! If so, I will have a 4-cell light (6P plus 2 extenders) on which I can fit the G12 which I believe is compatible with the normal tactical head of the 6P and Not compatible with the bigger mini-turbo head of the X12.

I am now considering if I should get a 4-cell light which, together with my 2 extenders, will allow me to run 3 of Aw's 17670s (hopefully, but no one has confirmed this yet) with the 12V bulb.

MY QUESTION is, should I get one of the generic 4-cell light such as the UltraFire12 from emillion or the equivalent from TradeDigit; or should I cough up for the X12 for the mini-turbo head and the Surefire compatibility? The generic 4-cells can be had for only about $35 whereas the X12 goes for $70 inclusive of shipping. Do you think the mini-turbo head is worth the doubling of the price? How much benefit can I expect, other than aesthetics of course since a 6-cell light with a tactical head looks odd, like carrying a length of pipe! Your opinion is much appreciated. Thanks, Paul.

 

[Paul_in_Maryland]

Do let us know when your A19 arrives, if the 3 168Bs works well with your Z3 plus 2 A19s.

As soon as I know, you'll know, in this thread. Of course, given that I've blown two G120 lamps by powering them hot off the charger, I'll let my 168B cells cool down for two days! Ah, the torture of waiting! No, wait: I'll have them already charged and cooled down. Whew!

I currently have a 6P and an A19. I have just ordered a G12 bulb from emillion and a King's Arm 1-cell extender. Finally, we will know if the King's Arm is compatible with the 6P!

The King's Arm will definitely fit a 6P. The only question is, can it hold AW's protected cells (R123A, 17500, and 17670)? The G&P is too narrow. Let's hope King's Arm didn't make the same mistake.

If so, I will have a 4-cell light (6P plus 2 extenders) on which I can fit the G12 which I believe is compatible with the normal tactical head of the 6P and Not compatible with the bigger mini-turbo head of the X12.

I have a G90 at home; I'll try to remember to test it with my surefire Z44 tactical head. If it fits the Z44, it probably fits the Surefire stock 6P head.

I am now considering if I should get a 4-cell light which, together with my 2 extenders, will allow me to run 3 of Aw's 17670s (hopefully, but no one has confirmed this yet) with the 12V bulb.

Judging by AW's specs, it should work, which will save everyone a heap of money in cells (two sets!) and charger. If you plan to charge the 17670 cells in a car, the only DC chargers I've found are the Wolf Eyes / Pila and Microfire. Each will set you back $27 to $30. If you don't get a spare set of cells, you'll probably want a spare charger. Remember: Once you charge these cells, you'll have to wait at least a day, preferably two, before using them safely with your G120 lamp. Can you wait? I didn't think so.

MY QUESTION is, should I get one of the generic 4-cell light such as the UltraFire12 from emillion or the equivalent from TradeDigit; or should I cough up for the X12 for the mini-turbo head and the Surefire compatibility? The generic 4-cells can be had for only about $35 whereas the X12 goes for $70 inclusive of shipping. Do you think the mini-turbo head is worth the doubling of the price? How much benefit can I expect, other than aesthetics of course since a 6-cell light with a tactical head looks odd, like carrying a length of pipe! Your opinion is much appreciated. Thanks, Paul.

Good questions. Arguments in favor of the Ultrafire: Cheap, slim, available in silver or black, glass lens, uses G&P's highest-spec'd lamp (according to the ads), clickie tailcap (reverse clickie). Arguments against it: Probably poor heat dissipation, no extenders available, and hence no way to use rechargeables with the stock lamp; can't use a turbo head; can't use Surefire tailcaps, can't use Surefire lanyard rings (head or tail), probably no rubber gasketing.

For me, the use of rechargeables outweighs everything else. Hence, only the Ultrafire 90 would be a good deal.

Yeah, a 6x123A body looks odd. But Mags come in similarly long length-to-width ratios.

The G&P boosts throw considerably. Even my 9V LEDWave, rated at 120 lumens could match my TL-3 in throw, BUT only in the very center of the the beam. My G120 lamp in the turbohead will beat a TL-3 in throw...but only in the center of its beam. The thing is, the turboheads are now priced so low, it would be criminal to pass them up! So get an X-3, X-4, or LEDWave Z-3; if the head is too large, spend $20 and get a Surefire Z44 tactical head and a new G&P lamp (for the tactical reflector).

 

[lexina]

Thanks, Paul. I have just gone ahead to order an X12. Now for the long wait!

Alex

 

[Paul_in_Maryland]

Folks, as Lexina knows, I've hot-flashed another G120 lamp, using 150B cells that had been charged days earlier and had about 20 minutes of use. I've given up on this idea: From now on, I plan to use just "9V" lamps for my incans. Sorry to have misled you all into thinking that 3x168 and a G120 would be a great way to go. I'm even shy about powering a G120 with three 150B/150S cells (17500s won't work); though I've used them successfully, I think I've also hotflashed a G120 this way.

The G120 should be fine with four 123A primary cells--but it'll cost you about $6 an hour.

 

[lexina]

The G120 should be fine with four 123A primary cells--but it'll cost you about $6 an hour.

If $6 an hour sounds heavy, I guess the best option for a 4-cell light would be to run a 9v lamp on 2 17670s.

Paul, my X12 will come with a 12v mini-turbo lamp assembly. If I want to run a 9v bulb on this assembly, can I just twist off a bulb from one of my GP90s and replace the bulb on the X12 assembly?

Do you know where I can buy a 9v lamp assembly (bulb plus reflector) for the X12? eHobby Asia which sells the X9 and X12 don't seem to carry spare lamp assemblies for these lights. Thanks.

 

[Paul_in_Maryland]

If $6 an hour sounds heavy, I guess the best option for a 4-cell light would be to run a 9v lamp on 2 17670s.

That's what I'm doing now!

Paul, my X12 will come with a 12v mini-turbo lamp assembly. If I want to run a 9v bulb on this assembly, can I just twist off a bulb from one of my GP90s and replace the bulb on the X12 assembly?

Yes. But I'm starting to believe that there may be one or more geometric differences between the 9V and 12V bulb; the regular and high-pressure bulb; and/or the 9V and 12V reflector. I say this because I recently discovered that an Alpha 9 lamp WILL fit my 9V G&P small reflector, even though it would NOT fit my 12V small reflector!!! I'm now using this combination. It's brighter than G&P's brightest 9V, but less bright than G&P's 12V or a Surefire P91. I'm trying to buy one or two more bodies so I can test all my 9V lamps at once and take beam shots with my new digital camera; give me a couple weeks!

I also am now convinced, Lexina, that there truly are two versions of G&P's lamps, it's not just hype, and that you want to make sure you get the 9V rated 175 lumens. The two 12V versions are quite close in output (220 and 200 lumens), but in the 9V lineup, you're talking 175 lumens vs. 120 (or 130).

The only sources I know of for extra lamp assemblies are Digilight USA $20 per lamp assembly plus $8 fixed shipping within the USA) and the TradeDigit eBay store. And the only source for a 9V or 12V miniturbo lamp assembly is Digilight USA--which, happily, will include the 175-lumen lamp. But why spend $38 when all you need is a lamp from the $20 assembly? Besides, you'll be getting another turbohead when you buy the G&P 5W LED module, right?

 

[lexina]

Well, I received my X12 in the mail today! First thing I did was to check if the bezel and tail-cap would fit my 6P+A19. Good news is the bezels and tail-caps are completely compatible!

In fact, the mini-turbo head looks more "balanced" in my 3-cell 6P+A19 than in the X12 and I will probably leave this as my standard configuration since I can't see myself using 4 non-rechargeables on the X12. I managed to run the stock 12v bulb on this 3-cell setup with 2 of Aw's protected 17500s providing just 8.4v and am quite pleased with the light output (not as much difference from the GP90 as I would have expected - and makes me wonder if the 12v bulb is actually more in the region of 10-11v, which would explain why the 12v bulb seems to blow relatively easily on 3 rechargeables).

What I want to do next is to replace the 12v bulb in the mini-turbo with the 9v bulb in my GP90 to see if this will be brighter (running on 2 17500s). I know I have aked you this before, Paul, but I am still nervous about twisting the bulbs off my 12v and 9v lamp assemblies. How are the bulbs connected to the assemblies? Are they bi-pin in which case I should just pull them straight out with a plier or are they treaded in which case I should just twist them off? Thanks.

Oh, btw, the glass lens from a 43mm filter I bought fit the mini-turbo bezel perfectly. Thanks for the tip, Paul.

 

[Paul_in_Maryland]

Lexina,

I think the miniturbo makes these lights beautiful, regardless of which body their on. You can see the 9V combo on Digilight's site. There's nothing to stop you from using the miniturbo on your 2x123A P6 body, running the 9V lamp with two unprotected 123As or running a 6V G&P lamp with two 123A primaries! Come to think of it, doesn't Surefire's own L4 have such a lopsided head-to-body ratio?

The bulb has a male-threaded base that screws right into and out of the reflector. The RICO Alpha 9 works this way, too. If you've ever inserted a PR potted bulb, it's the same concept, except threaded. No wires, no fragile pins, no worries. Once you experience how easily it screws in and out, you'll wonder why anyone would fool with bipins.

 

[Paul_in_Maryland]

Great news, G&P fans: Digilight's tactical xenon lights and miniturbo lamp assemblies are available at Blackrifles.com at a cost appreciably below the direct-from-Digilight cost! They don't yet stock the replacement high-pressure xenon lamp assemblies for 1.25-inch bezels that we all covet. But I've just written to ask "when will you be stocking these?" and will let you know within minutes of learning the answer. Judging from their other prices, I think we can expect to see a price of $15 per lamp assembly.

 

[sig-in-tx]

What the price on the A2 copy I wonder?
http://www.gp-web.com/en/productspop.php?pid=705