"I had a flashlight but it was dead"paraphrased quote George Zimmerman

[Novan3]

...I dont think a light would have made a difference.

All else being equal on the presumption nothing was race motivated, I think a flashlight WOULD have made a difference.

 

[StarHalo]

But I see tinder and increasing heat, and I don't see it ending any other way than in flames.

This thread is remarkably calm considering the subject, this isn't even warm by CPF standards..

 

[fishndad]

IN THIS CASE! I dont think a light would have made any difference.
Zimmerman was in his vechicle with working headlamps following Martin.He called 911 and after being instructed to stay in his car,he got out anyway . My own common sence says Zimmerman was only going to be content confronting Martin.With or without a working light.What happned next will only be known by Zimmerman.There was no actual eye witness who saw the whole thing.
My opinion is not a commentary on Zimmermans guilt or innocense it mearly states he didnt care if his light worked or not he was getting out and confronting Martin.That is the one fact we all know of for sure.

 

[Diablo_331]

The rabbit hole goes a lot deeper than it may seem... Some will know what I'm referring too and most won't. I agree that this is probably not a discussion for CPF and would be better off in the underground.

 

[Burgess]

gee . . . .

You're saying that we CPF members aren't even *capable*

of discussion on this Post, without things getting Out of Hand ? ? ?


_

 

[mvyrmnd]

All else being equal on the presumption nothing was race motivated, I think a flashlight WOULD have made a difference.

Race could still be irrelevant and he just wanted the kids off his lawn (metaphorically speaking). The law gave him the ability to shoot the kid, so he did.

 

[braddy]

There is so much misinformation on this thread it is incredible, I expected better informed people here.

Some of these bizarre opinions would have been acceptable at first when the media was saturating the public with misinformation such as Zimmerman as a "white man" instead of a white, black, Hispanic of mixed race, that Trayvon was a saintly tiny kid and so on, but so many facts have come out that by now everyone should have a pretty good grasp on what happened that evening.

 

[fyrstormer]

I don't think a flashlight would've made much difference. The local police said that Zimmerman had repeatedly called them to report suspicious activity and the suspects were always young black males. He may not have intended to be racist, but he was certainly behaving like one. He saw a black kid, decided the kid was up to no good, and confronted him.

I haven't heard anything to suggest that Zimmerman attempted to handle the situation in any way other than continuing to escalate, and apparently Trayvon Martin wasn't the kind of person who would take off running just to avoid a fight.

Even if Martin had taken off at a sprint, Zimmerman might well have interpreted that as an implicit admission of guilt, not realizing how threatening his own behavior might appear to someone who had no reason to expect trouble. I think the outcome was more-or-less inevitable.

The real problem in this case was not the lack of good lighting, it was the Stand Your Ground law. It allows people to shoot suspected aggressors without ever attempting to de-escalate the situation even a little bit. Merely taking a couple steps back is enough to determine if another person is an aggressor, because an aggressor will step forward when you step back. That symbolic gesture of not wanting to get in a fight doesn't increase risk for the defender at all, and it allows the defender to assess whether the other person really does want to get into a fight. That information is enough to justify deadly force if necessary, but allowing people to shoot other people just because of bad mojo is unacceptable in civilized society.

Admittedly though, not everyone wants to live in civilized society; some people like the feeling of subduing a world that (in their minds) wants to destroy them. People like that are welcome to move to Somalia, the Land Where (those kind of) Dreams Come True.

 

[StarHalo]

apparently Trayvon Martin wasn't the kind of person who would take off running just to avoid a fight.

If Trayvon also produced a handgun and each shot the other dead on site, I wonder if there would be so much enthusiasm for the Stand Your Ground law; perhaps then the view that Zimmerman should have remained in his car would be more popular.

 

[fyrstormer]

If Trayvon also produced a handgun and each shot the other dead on site, I wonder if there would be so much enthusiasm for the Stand Your Ground law; perhaps then the view that Zimmerman should have remained in his car would be more popular.

I understand where you're coming from, but I think in that case Martin would've been viewed as a heat-packing hoodlum and Zimmerman's self-supposed status as a card-carrying Good Samaritan would've been confirmed. I think the scenario you described would just confirm the notion behind the SYG law, that if you think someone's up to no good, they probably are, and you should respond as though you know for sure. I think that would've made SYG laws even more popular.

 

[braddy]

It appears that the neighborhood watch Captain was attacked by the grill wearing, tattooed, stoned, Trayvon, who while showing evidence of delivering blows with his fist, showed zero evidence of having received a blow from Zimmerman, anywhere on his body.

Zimmerman was badly bloodied with wounds on the back of his head, and a broken nose, all fitting the description of the attack he claims that Trayvon made on him, and banging his head on the ground, the shot was supposedly delivered as Zimmerman was on his back being beaten by Trayvon, which the evidence will easily determine.

The neighborhood watchman appears to be alive because he was armed. There is no place in the public space where you are allowed to make a deadly attack on someone because they have been observing you.


See Rule #3 Do not Hot Link images – Norm

 

[mvyrmnd]

The real problem in this case was not the lack of good lighting, it was the Stand Your Ground law. It allows people to shoot suspected aggressors without ever attempting to de-escalate the situation even a little bit. Merely taking a couple steps back is enough to determine if another person is an aggressor, because an aggressor will step forward when you step back. That symbolic gesture of not wanting to get in a fight doesn't increase risk for the defender at all, and it allows the defender to assess whether the other person really does want to get into a fight. That information is enough to justify deadly force if necessary, but allowing people to shoot other people just because of bad mojo is unacceptable in civilized society.

Hear Hear!

 

[StarHalo]

It appears that the neighborhood watch Captain was attacked

We already know all that, it's public-domain data covered thoroughly on the Wikipedia page on the subject; none of this takes into account what would happened if Zimmerman had simply stayed in his car, as his neighborhood watch training instructed him to do, as the 911 dispatcher instructed him to do, as common sense would have instructed him to do. When I see someone suspicious in my neighborhood, my instinct is not to abandon my car and initiate a foot pursuit - if the suspicious person actually is dangerous, there are too many very negative outcomes that could come from that. Someone who not only owns a gun but has a concealed carry permit for it should know that inherently.

 

[braddy]

I don't think a flashlight would've made much difference. The local police said that Zimmerman had repeatedly called them to report suspicious activity and the suspects were always young black males. He may not have intended to be racist, but he was certainly behaving like one. He saw a black kid, decided the kid was up to no good, and confronted him.

Zimmerman had made many calls because he was the neighborhood watch captain.

Stand your ground laws had nothing to do with this case, Zimmerman was cold cocked and had to shoot while laying on his back as Trayvon straddled him and was banging his head on the sidewalk.

A man with a gun standing in a confrontation will move back when someone closes on him and will move to protect his weapon, he will not advance and get into the face of the bad guy. Although this has nothing to do with the Trayvon attack.

The right of Americans to protect themselves must be protected, Zimmerman might be dead if he had not been armed, for a 17 years old, out of town guest to walk up and cold **** the neighborhood watch captain, and then proceed to beat his head on the sidewalk, then something has to be very wrong with that young man, and the being stoned, the many tattoos, and the gold grill, and the makings of the drink lean, and the internet activity indicating that Trayvon was a drug dealer, and the bust for the burglar tools and jewelry a couple of weeks before, all indicate that Trayvon was a a dangerous young man, and a neighborhood watch Captain almost died at his hand.

 

[braddy]

Zimmerman was returning to his car when attacked, but he nor anyone else is required to be so timid and fearful in their own neighborhood or anywhere else in America, that they have to go sit in their car and lose sight of what they perceive as suspicious activity.

 

[StarHalo]

he nor anyone else is required to be so timid and fearful in their own neighborhood or anywhere else in America, that they have to go sit in their car and lose sight of what they perceive as suspicious activity.

So if you had a son or daughter call you and tell you there was a suspicious person in their neighborhood, your advice would be to arm up and pursue?

 

[braddy]

Zimmerman was naturally already armed, like me he is a CCL holder, he was also the neighborhood watch captain, who's duty was to observe suspicious behavior, he also needed the address where this was happening.

Zimmerman did everything right, being attacked and fighting for his life was because a criminal fell upon him with terrible intent.

 

[M@elstrom]

Zimmerman was naturally already armed, like me he is a CCL holder, he was also the neighborhood watch captain, who's duty was to observe suspicious behavior, he also needed the address where this was happening.

Did Zimmerman identify himself as a neighbourhood watch member prior to the assault? :thinking:

 

[fishndad]

On CNN there is a story with George Zimmerman recounting the events that tragic night.
He was quoted on a before unreleased recording as saying.....words along the lines of I wanted to see what was around corner...."I had a flashlight, but it was dead"

It would be difficult to categorically conclude that a functioning O Light M 20, for example would have altered the outcome, yet a high powered light used at the right time, right situation COULD MAYBE PERHAPS have made a difference.... if nothing other than facilitating separation of the individuals before the fight occurred.

This is yet another reason to make sure cells are fresh on EDC light prior to an evening excursion.

You put it well.
I charge my cell phone, set time aside for stopping to pick up some coffee and other rituals go into play before i head off to work.Charging my cells regularly is one of those things.Certainly i check my light before heading out the door.
I really think in this case,a flashlight would have made no difference on what took place.

 

[braddy]

Doesn't matter, at no time and in no way was Zimmerman legally open to deadly attack. Any one was safely legal and proper in being there and watching a stranger wander around.