I just started in ceramics

[The Dane]

Mine holds up great :twothumbs
As a EDC it cuts boxes, string, strip wires etc.
A thing i have learned: It tarnished badly cutting alu cans, but simple green and a scotch brite returned it to new.
Eventually it will dull, but with a 220 grit diamond wheel on my benchgrinder i forsee no problem.

 

[coors]

I've had mine for 2-3 weeks, now, and it has survived all that I've thrown at with apparently no chipping of the blade whatsoever (examined with a powerful loupe). I use it for vegetable chores mostly and peeling potatoes and cutting them into jumbo fries seems to be it's most frequent usage, but it's also been used for opening packages and mail, as well as other projects as they arise.
I also ordered a cheap ceramic folder from DealExtreme (top knife in photo) at the same time that I ordered the ceramic.org knife, to compare and see if the $54.95us ceramic.org knife (inc. shipping) would be noticably better than a $16.05us (inc. shipping) ceramic folder.
I actually like the fit and finish of the DX knife better. I also like the way the DX knife feels in use as it's a little larger and fits my fairly large hand better. The wood scales also keeping it from slipping around in my hand. The ceramic.org is a bit more slippery and I find myself being much more careful while using it than I am with the DX.
However, the blade of the ceramic.org is sharper and may well be of a better quality ceramic material or manufacturing process. The ceramic.org blade is pure white while the DX blade is yellowish (reminds me of an aged ivory piano key).
I ordered a titanium lowrider clip for the ceramic.org knife but theres no place to fit that one, so I'm planning to buy my own titanium sheet (.050) and make a custom clip for this knife. I'll try to remember to post a photo after I make and install the clip.
As for sharpening, I'm looking at both of the Kyocera diamond sharpeners. One is electric (around $100 shipped) and the other is manual (around $40 shipped). I'll try to remember to write about my experiences with these, after I use them.

 

[Cpt. Thomas]

I've had mine for 2-3 weeks, now, and it has survived all that I've thrown at with apparently no chipping of the blade whatsoever (examined with a powerful loupe). I use it for vegetable chores mostly and peeling potatoes and cutting them into jumbo fries seems to be it's most frequent usage, but it's also been used for opening packages and mail, as well as other projects as they arise.
I also ordered a cheap ceramic folder from DealExtreme (top knife in photo) at the same time that I ordered the ceramic.org knife, to compare and see if the $54.95us ceramic.org knife (inc. shipping) would be noticably better than a $16.05us (inc. shipping) ceramic folder.
I actually like the fit and finish of the DX knife better. I also like the way the DX knife feels in use as it's a little larger and fits my fairly large hand better. The wood scales also keeping it from slipping around in my hand. The ceramic.org is a bit more slippery and I find myself being much more careful while using it than I am with the DX.
However, the blade of the ceramic.org is sharper and may well be of a better quality ceramic material or manufacturing process. The ceramic.org blade is pure white while the DX blade is yellowish (reminds me of an aged ivory piano key).
I ordered a titanium lowrider clip for the ceramic.org knife but theres no place to fit that one, so I'm planning to buy my own titanium sheet (.050) and make a custom clip for this knife. I'll try to remember to post a photo after I make and install the clip.
As for sharpening, I'm looking at both of the Kyocera diamond sharpeners. One is electric (around $100 shipped) and the other is manual (around $40 shipped). I'll try to remember to write about my experiences with these, after I use them.

Yes yes, please do follow upwith us and let us know how both knives stack up after a bit more time, how the clip turns out (more pics) and the sharpeners.

Thanks!

Cpt. Thomas

 

[coors]

The piece of titanium that I ordered came, for making a custom low-rider clip, as well as the countersunk/flat-top screws, tap and countersink. Unfortunately, I ordered the wrong screw size so I have to wait for the right ones, now.
When I took the ceramic.org knife (Rigger) apart I decided to use Nanolube to lubricate the ceramic to stainless contact points. Nanolube is supposed to imbed the surface of anything that it's applied to with a layer of diamonds, so I thought it the best solution for offsetting the hardness variance between these two dissimilar materials. I've been opening and closing the lubricated knife for about 30 mins., now. Even though I tightened the pivot a bit more than it was before disassembly, it has smoothed out very nicely. Particularly where the linerlock drops below the blade when it's fully opened.

 

[TorchBoy]

A lube made with diamonds sounds like an oxymoron. Is it for real, and how would it work?

 

[coors]

After over 24 hours since applying the Nanolube I washed off the carrier-oil with hot water, dishwashing soap and a toothbrush, so that I can use the knife on vegetables again (the carrier oil seems to be regular motor oil... smells like it anyway, to me). I also wanted to see if the new "embeded diamonds", alone, would stop the wearing away of the metal post, located on the underside of the spring liner-lock. I had lubed both the post and the entire ceramic surface that the post traveled along, generously. While washing away the carrier-oil I removed all previous traces of this posts abrasion, on the ceramic surface, then I opened and closed the blade continuously for several minutes. The above photo shows the result.
In my opinion, the wear is exactly the same as before the Nanolube treatment. Disappointing, for me.

 

[TorchBoy]

Even without your disappointing result it seems to me that any lubrication would be from the carrier oil, not from the diamonds. It's also hard to imagine that varied surfaces would be imbedded with diamonds similarly... and why?

 

[Cpt. Thomas]

After over 24 hours since applying the Nanolube I washed off the carrier-oil with hot water, dishwashing soap and a toothbrush, so that I can use the knife on vegetables again (the carrier oil seems to be regular motor oil... smells like it anyway, to me). I also wanted to see if the new "embeded diamonds", alone, would stop the wearing away of the metal post, located on the underside of the spring liner-lock. I had lubed both the post and the entire ceramic surface that the post traveled along, generously. While washing away the carrier-oil I removed all previous traces of this posts abrasion, on the ceramic surface, then I opened and closed the blade continuously for several minutes. The above photo shows the result.
In my opinion, the wear is exactly the same as before the Nanolube treatment. Disappointing, for me.

Please don't take this the wrong way because I absolutely don't mean this to sound condescending at all, but the technical answer to this would require a masters in chemical engineering with a minor in metallurgy. In lay terms, no lubricant will 100% stop dynamic / static friction. Reduce it sure, and to the extent of the reduction? That is the great race in lube chemical development.

So in this case, we have a dissimilar material contact situation. The ceramic is much much harder than the liner alloy it is in contact with and the ceramic is white in color (compounds the perceived appearance of wear / material transfer). It is perfectly normal to have discoloration and there is now way to stop it unless you have zero contact (air or magnetic cushion) the extent of the wear / friction reduction can only be judged over time and use. Also, did you lube / treat the liner lock side ? I wouldn't be disappointed at all….. just yet.

I am going to be doing some lube related reviews and testing in the lube thread shortly so watch out for that.

Cpt. Thomas

 

[coors]

Even without your disappointing result it seems to me that any lubrication would be from the carrier oil, not from the diamonds. It's also hard to imagine that varied surfaces would be imbedded with diamonds similarly... and why?

I'm really not qualified to answer your questions. I'd just simply quote from the Nanolube website info, which I can't verify as either truth or fiction. Here's the link to the owner's site, whom I purchased from: http://www.diamondlube.com/

 

[coors]

Please don't take this the wrong way because I absolutely don't mean this to sound condescending at all, but the technical answer to this would require a masters in chemical engineering with a minor in metallurgy. In lay terms, no lubricant will 100% stop dynamic / static friction. Reduce it sure, and to the extent of the reduction? That is the great race in lube chemical development.

So in this case, we have a dissimilar material contact situation. The ceramic is much much harder than the liner alloy it is in contact with and the ceramic is white in color (compounds the perceived appearance of wear / material transfer). It is perfectly normal to have discoloration and there is now way to stop it unless you have zero contact (air or magnetic cushion) the extent of the wear / friction reduction can only be judged over time and use. Also, did you lube / treat the liner lock side ? I wouldn't be disappointed at all….. just yet.

I am going to be doing some lube related reviews and testing in the lube thread shortly so watch out for that.

Cpt. Thomas

I really appreciate your input here, Cpt. Thomas. It put some things into proper perspective, for me. Yes, I agree that my expectations were a bit unrealistic, now. Could you please provide a link to the "lube thread" that you'd mentioned, so that we can follow it too ?!
I really do find myself wishing that the Nanolube product would also be made in a food-industry form like "Super-Lube" which is based on Teflon lubricity instead of non-detonation nanodiamonds:

Yes, I had lubed the pivot bearing, friction pin/post (which is non-stainless, and after 3 weeks of sink washings and no oiling it's orange colored oxidation heavily fouled the area surrounding itself and all around the detent that's drilled in the ceramic blade) and the leading edge of the side-lock spring:

I wiped all surfaces of the ceramic to steel contact areas and relubed, again, with the Nanolube and am planning to cycle the blade (open and close = cycle) many times over the next 3-days, hopefully to build on the "previous layer" of nanodiamonds. I'll try to update, if I find anything noteworthy.

 

[Cpt. Thomas]

The lube thread is here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/242414

What are you thoughts on the Super Lube. I have some coming and it will be included in my tests.

Cpt. Thomas

 

[TorchBoy]

Interesting concept. Sounds like this nano-diamond stuff likes being hot.

The friction coefficient of the nano-diamond is very low at 200 °C when the test load is not more than 20 N. ... The nano-diamond modified by dimer ester possesses excellent antiwear and friction reducing performance at 500 °C and load 500 N.

Maybe if you whip open your knife really quickly it'll get to 200°C and make a difference. JK. I'd personally go for graphite instead, but that would mark your blade even more.

 

[fyrstormer]

I came up with a different solution: I ground the nub off the liner-lock, because I didn't like how it focused the liner's pressure on a single point of contact, and how it had to bump up over the edge of the blade when closing. (I demand smooth action from my knives.) Since removing the nub, and polishing the inner surface of the liner, the knife is much smoother to open, though not wear-free (and it never will be).

I lubricate my knife, as with all my knives and bike parts, with Tri-Flow oil. Never found anything better for the job.

 

[Cpt. Thomas]

Mmmmm.. doesn't that "nub" that you ground off engage the hole in the blade and serve to help hold the blade in the closed position, hence preventing accidential opening?

Capt. Thomas

 

[fyrstormer]

In theory yes, in practice no; I've never had a problem with it opening accidentally anyway. I just tighten the main pivot until the blade doesn't wiggle at all, and then I lock it in place with a drop of superglue, which is usually also enough to keep it from flipping open on accident. Besides, I feel much more comfortable operating a knife one-handed if it doesn't have something that I have to build up pressure to overcome before it starts moving, because that's how blades get closed on fingers -- or at least, that's how they get closed on MY fingers. These ceramic blades are so sharp they don't even pull on your skin while they're slicing you open, so I'm extra concerned about smooth operation with this knife.

 

[coors]

The lube thread is here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/242414

Thank you, for the link.

What are you thoughts on the Super Lube. I have some coming and it will be included in my tests.

I have not used the Super Lube oil for over a year. I bought it for using on my road-bicycle chain. It's too tacky and picks up road-grit to readily. I switched to Break-Free, cut 50% with kerosene. I use Super Lube grease on my flashlights, both anodized threads and non-anodized threads. I like it, a lot.

 

[coors]

I've been working on the titanium clip, a little:

Here, it's pretty much finished. It carries very nicely, now, when clipped to my pant's pocket:

After washing away all of the Nanolube I reassembled using the food grade Super-Lube, with Teflon. With Nanolube, the blade was cycled 1000's of times. I've no intention of applying any more of the regular Nanolube product to this knife again, as this knife's primary use is for food.

 

[Cpt. Thomas]

Thanks for the pics coors. Dead on looks like what I'm doing to several knives in my collection. I ordered the Ti, just waiting for it to show up. I bent some mock ups out of soft coper so I could move them around and see what I like. Yours is maybe a bit better than mine for this Rigger though :thumbsup:

Cpt. thomas

 

[coors]

I found this video, today, of the Kyocera manual diamond sharpener, for ceramic blades : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbyuFpct4JY
This diamond sharpener, for ceramic blades, in no longer manufactured as it has been superceded by Kyocera's 2010 electric (AA's) model: http://tinyurl.com/y7ltseb

*Update* Received my Kyocera DS-20 manual sharpener, today, and the blade profiles of both of my ceramic folding knives are all wrong for this sharpener, as the diamonds can't get to the blade's working edge. Am planning to reprofile the less expensive DX-purchased knife, first, then will try to sharpen, again.

 

[coors]

Since I've started sharpening this Dealextreme ceramic folder I have completely neglected the "rigger". I was going to perfectly flatten the surface of a grinding wheel and then glue some wet/dry paper around it's circumference, to reprofile the ceramic blade, but instead have been just using the Kyocera DS-20 diamond sharpener, to reprofile. It is getting rediculously sharp. The trade off though is that the leading edge is now very thin and will undoubtedly be much more fragile. I'm thinking that shouldn't pose a problem if I just use this knife, henceforth, in the kitchen only. I don't think that I want to make the "rigger" into a dedicated kitchen knife, just yet, so I'll probably keep researching ceramic knife blade sharpening to see if I can find a suitable method to keep it's inherent edge toughness.

Concerning the Kyocera DS-20 sharpener, I really can not recommend it, as it has some serious design faults, in my opinion (and probably in the opinion of others as it's been discontinued and superceded by an electic model with embedded diamond rotary wheels). In the image above I have removed the upper handle/blade-guide portion from the base that holds the 4x diamond plates. The main design fault is that no matter which way you draw the ceramic blade through the diamond plates, 3/4" of the rear, right hand side of the blade will never come in contact with a diamond plate.

By removing one of the outer most plates, now the entire edge can be sharpened by alternating the direction that the blade is drawn through the diamond plates. This can only be done with the top, handle/blade guide, removed from the base. This means that you'll have to pay particular attention to keeping the blade straight as you draw it.