It's about time...

[SCEMan]

New Mexico prosecutors finally call BS on "the faulty gun fired on it's own" excuse.

Prosecutors will recharge Alec Baldwin over lethal movie shooting after results from independent forensic test | Blaze Media

Prosecutors in New Mexico said that they would file charges against actor Alec Baldwin again over the shooting incident that claimed the life of a cinematographer on the set of his "Rust" movie. Special prosecutor Kari Morrissey said that the charges against Baldwin would be brought before a...

www.theblaze.com

 

[turbodog]

Given that it was 1) known that a gun was being used and 2) the 'gun wrangler' used live ammo, 3) of which I can't see a reason to be on set at all, this looks like a PR move.

I can't see any criminal culpability for Baldwin.

 

[bykfixer]

Hasn't Alec been known to have anger issues or something?

 

[Monocrom]

Hasn't Alec been known to have anger issues or something?

Sure. But I honestly think that he was just screwing around with the gun. Thinking, hey; no big deal. Went off due to his negligence, and he decided to pretend that it was somehow magically possessed and went off on its own. What I'd like to see is the Prop Master charged too.

The one on the set of "The Crow" was never charged for the gross negligence he displayed that got Brandon Lee killed. Here's the thing, Fake Old West revolvers costs more than the real thing, but don't look realistic. They just don't. So, plenty of movie sets just use the real thing; and actors and crew like to pretend it's no big deal. And it's not.... until someone gets shot and killed with a real gun loaded with real ammo. You NEVER have real guns on set. Just a hard and fast rule that everyone seems to ignore.

As far as fake guns that don't look like the real thing, there are work-arounds. Film a scene of someone being shot with a fake gun from a bit of a distance with a wide camera shot. Need close-up shots? Fine, put the real guns into a large lock-box. One key, and it belongs to the Prop Master who distributes one gun at any given time to a trained stuntman or an actor who has been fully trained. Film the scene, add the gunfire effects during post production using CGI. And, don't cheap out by hiring a Prop Master whose an incompetent moron.

They weren't filming anything during the time of the shooting. Just Baldwin off to the side, playing with a real loaded gun. Like some dumb kid playing with a loaded gun, thinking it's a toy. A kid would at least have an excuse of not knowing any better. Baldwin is a grown man.

 

[thermal guy]

Ya I don't think the gun he was using had a transfer bar safety. So he probably pulled the trigger and cocked the hammer and just let it fall.

that one with Brandon Lee Was crazy! first time I ever heard of that happening.

 

[SCEMan]

Two simple rules:
Treat every gun you're handed as loaded until you check/clear it yourself
Never point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot

 

[DaveTheDude]

During my military service, folks newly assigned to the command were all required to recertify on small arms safety protocol, no matter their rank or experience. (Our CO was unwavering in enforcement of this requirement.) For awhile I acted as the range safety supervisor, as backup to the instructor who had primary responsibility for instruction, grading, and certification of the new crew members: my role being mostly to ensure that a second set of eyes was focused on safety when the range master was otherwise occupied. We kept detailed safety records for our performance reviews.

Can you guess the number one safety violation? Negligent discharge. Even among otherwise experienced personnel.

As much as I've enjoyed Mr. Baldwin's acting performances over the years, my awareness of the lethality of even the smallest of mouse guns predisposes me, in this case at least, to assume he is guilty until proven innocent. Sorry Alec, but you can't un-ring this particular bell: ignorance and inexperience are no excuse. That noted, I also suspect that an equal share of culpability lies with the armorer who left a loaded weapon in the hands of the firearm equivalent of a muggle. A reasonable person - especially one charged with the duty to supervise the safe handling of loaded weapons - should know that such actions amount to wanton disregard for life and safety, and at the very least constitutes gross negligence, and conscious indifference to the harm that in this case did indeed occur.

We can debate which of these two is the more culpable, but I'm pretty sure most of us would agree that they are both at fault, and both should share the blame.

 

[Guitar Guy]

That noted, I also suspect that an equal share of culpability lies with the armorer who left a loaded weapon in the hands of the firearm equivalent of a muggle. A reasonable person - especially one charged with the duty to supervise the safe handling of loaded weapons - should know that such actions amount to wanton disregard for life and safety, and at the very least constitutes gross negligence, and conscious indifference to the harm that in this case did indeed occur.

We can debate which of these two is the more culpable, but I'm pretty sure most of us would agree that they are both at fault, and both should share the blame.

^^ Agreed.

Prediction: Money will get spread around, and these two negligent individuals will likely skate free, with maybe probation at most for the armorer.

Baldwin will walk.

 

[Monocrom]

Sadly true. He has fame and money on his side.
An eventual Civil suit against him will quickly be settled out of court.
"Not admitting wrong-doing. Here's a boat-load of money. Drop the case and go away."

 

[jtr1962]

Two simple rules:
Treat every gun you're handed as loaded until you check/clear it yourself
Never point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot

I never owned a gun but I had that drilled into me while some relatives were showing me theirs.

 

[turbodog]

This is a workplace injury, no different from those that happen everyday where a safety mechanism is not engaged and something falls, someone gets electrocuted, etc.

The gun wrangler certifies the prop is ready to use, and that's it.

They are going after him for PR points and/or that's where the money is.

Ask yourself, do you perform a safety inspection every time you rent a car, checking oil, trans fluid, brake fluid, brake pad thickness, rotor thickness, and so on?

Then you would be guilty also by your standards and logic for a brake/equipment failure resulting in a death/injury.

 

[silat]

New Mexico prosecutors finally call BS on "the faulty gun fired on it's own" excuse.

Prosecutors will recharge Alec Baldwin over lethal movie shooting after results from independent forensic test | Blaze Media

Prosecutors in New Mexico said that they would file charges against actor Alec Baldwin again over the shooting incident that claimed the life of a cinematographer on the set of his "Rust" movie. Special prosecutor Kari Morrissey said that the charges against Baldwin would be brought before a...

www.theblaze.com

Totally political with some prosecutor trying to get into higher office. There is no there there. Unless of course you love The Blaze.

Remington hid dangers of controversial trigger: Documents

https://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/08/remington-under-fire-the-reckoning.html

Popular Remington 700 rifle linked to potentially deadly defect

Thousands of gun owners claim Remington 700 rifles have fired without the trigger being pulled. Now, with a class-action lawsuit and recall, why do most gun owners still have the controversial trigger?

www.cbsnews.com

 

[idleprocess]

I gather one of the main issues plaguing the production of Rust was a labor dispute that had substitute armorers working on the production, likely contributing to the fatal accident.

As far as fake guns that don't look like the real thing, there are work-arounds. Film a scene of someone being shot with a fake gun from a bit of a distance with a wide camera shot. Need close-up shots? Fine, put the real guns into a large lock-box. One key, and it belongs to the Prop Master who distributes one gun at any given time to a trained stuntman or an actor who has been fully trained. Film the scene, add the gunfire effects during post production using CGI. And, don't cheap out by hiring a Prop Master whose an incompetent moron.

I've heard normal practice is not to use live ammunition on set, especially when high-dollar talent is handling the pieces. Blanks, simunitions, post effects, inert prop bullets, tight sequencing of scenes avoids the many risks associated with live ammunition in the complex environment of a TV or film production.

For some effects shots where post effects are apt to prove too difficult, exceptions may be made with stunt performers who - not to put too fine a point on it - are willing and can be made to follow strict technical/safety directions for a scene. As opposed to the high-dollar talent who easily have the the pull to get an armorer, technician, safety officer, lower-tier director, etc kicked off a production or sh_tlisted for having the temerity to issue strict imperatives.

 

[thermal guy]

This is a workplace injury, no different from those that happen everyday where a safety mechanism is not engaged and something falls, someone gets electrocuted, etc.

The gun wrangler certifies the prop is ready to use, and that's it.

They are going after him for PR points and/or that's where the money is.

Ask yourself, do you perform a safety inspection every time you rent a car, checking oil, trans fluid, brake fluid, brake pad thickness, rotor thickness, and so on?

Then you would be guilty also by your standards and logic for a brake/equipment failure resulting in a death/injury.

I kinda agree with this. He was given a firearm, was told it was empty and he went with that. But the other half of me says as a gun owner I'm going to check for myself. He at least IMO is somewhat responsible.

 

[Monocrom]

I mean, he claims he was handed a gun and told it was empty. We don't know if that's true. But yeah, even if it was.... Always check for yourself.

 

[kaichu dento]

Two simple rules:
Treat every gun you're handed as loaded until you check/clear it yourself
Never point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot

This, exactly.

Not very hard to understand, unless your full of yourself and trust that nothing can ever go wrong.

 

[kaichu dento]

...the other half of me says as a gun owner I'm going to check for myself. He at least IMO is somewhat responsible.

Everyone is responsible for what they do, and I doubt there's very many members here in the thread who would just take a gun handed to them after being told it was empty and start pointing it at people, cocking and pulling the trigger. That's what Baldwin did and the only 'political stunt' here was him getting let off previous to this newest action.

 

[alpg88]

As much as i do not like the guy, i do not think he can be blamed even if he did pull the trigger, unless he knew the gun was loaded with a live round. he was supposed to shoot blanks in the movie. so pulling trigger and cocking hammer was part of his rehearsal. he was supposed to point gun at people for the scene, However, there was not supposed to be any live rounds there. sure he was supposed to check, i mean it is not hard to see what is loaded in a revolver. Whoever loaded live rounds and left it unattended is at fault imo. at very least 95% of the fault, sure you can put 5% on Baldwin. but i do not see investigators charging anyone with that 95%. It does seem to be a political case. the armorer girl is charged with bringing live rounds, but they really need to look for someone who loaded it and left unattended.

 

[kaichu dento]

Lots of inexperienced opinions being thrown around to muddy the waters, but if you pick up a gun, it's loaded and dangerous. That is the only mindset that allows any safety whatsoever, and is a universally held attitude towards firearms.

 

[alpg88]

Totally political with some prosecutor trying to get into higher office. There is no there there. Unless of course you love The Blaze.

I agree.

Special prosecutor Kari Morrissey said that the charges against Baldwin would be brought before a Santa Fe grand jury in November.

IF they had solid evidence they would already charged him, they would not need grand jury. No defense counselors present during grand jury, no judge either, it is basically the prosecutors' word alone. and evidence they pick that support their case. a siht show basically.