LaCrosse BC-9009 / BC-900 - The Melt-Downs Continue...

[lolzertank]

I received my BC-9009 in the mail from Amazon YESTERDAY and ran 2 test cycles on 8 cells total at 1A. The 3 button is now sunk down into the unit. I patched up the melted part with a piece of a paper clip, so I can still use it. I also dropped some thermal paste on the thermistors while the case was open.

Does anyone feel that using 700mA (essentially like a BC-700) might be a better idea despite being below the 0.4-1C range? It really seems like the BC-900 was not designed to charge at 1A.

 

[Mr Happy]

I received my BC-9009 in the mail from Amazon YESTERDAY and ran 2 test cycles on 8 cells total at 1A. The 3 button is now sunk down into the unit. I patched up the melted part with a piece of a paper clip, so I can still use it. I also dropped some thermal paste on the thermistors while the case was open.

Does anyone feel that using 700mA (essentially like a BC-700) might be a better idea despite being below the 0.4-1C range? It really seems like the BC-900 was not designed to charge at 1A.

Can you post photos? Is it possible to tell where the heat came from, and how it melted the button?

 

[Light Sabre]

I always charge my NMH's at 500 or 700 ma on my 3 1/2 yo BC-900's. I tried charging at 1000 ma a couple of times but the cells got to hot in my opinion and placed a fan nearby to keep them cooler. Here on CPF I read and take in other peoples opinions about something and do what I feel is best for my situation. I'm not going to charge my batteries above 700 ma. I no longer charge at 200 ma. Input from other messages in this thread about the 200 ma setting and failed terminations has changed my opinion/use of the low setting on the BC-900. I keep an eye on my chargers and have the voltage readings selected. If there was a failed termination, I would catch it within 8 hours or less.

 

[lolzertank]

Can you post photos? Is it possible to tell where the heat came from, and how it melted the button?

Sorry, no pics because I already fixed the button and put the unit back together.

It basically looked like the button was pressed down way too far. The bottom part of the shaft melted into a little lump. I think the heat came from the tiny MOSFET used to regulate current on the back, which is conveniently placed right behind the metal switch on the third channel.

I fixed the button by extending its shaft back to its original length with some tape and a bent piece of a paper clip.

 

[MarioJP]

I am going to email or call the company and see whats really going on. Is la crosse like windows vista at launch LMAO!

 

[Bones]

...

Does anyone feel that using 700mA (essentially like a BC-700) might be a better idea despite being below the 0.4-1C range? It really seems like the BC-900 was not designed to charge at 1A.

Given the reports of consistently successful terminations at rates even less than 700mA by moldyoldy, Light Sabre and others, I would certainly give it try.

I believe that each cell or, at least, each grouping of the same cell requires initial monitoring and some degree of experimentation to determine what rate or rates are most suitable to that cell's characteristics. The objective being to find a rate that allows the charger to terminate reliably while minimizing the amount of heat generated inside the cell (and charger), especially during the latter stages of the charge cycle.

 

[Mr Happy]

It basically looked like the button was pressed down way too far. The bottom part of the shaft melted into a little lump. I think the heat came from the tiny MOSFET used to regulate current on the back, which is conveniently placed right behind the metal switch on the third channel.

Perhaps they switched the FET for one with a higher on resistance...?

Your experience sounds like a systematic design problem rather than the traditional meltdown event. Assuming everything is assembled and soldered correctly, one might suppose every sample of the BC9009 would do the same thing under the same circumstances.

 

[MarioJP]

Should there be a massive recall like the Sony batteries?

 

[Turbo DV8]

Re: LaCrosse BC-9009 / BC-900 - The Melt-downs Continue...

I also have 2 of these and the newer one is now over 1 year old, the older one is 4 & 1/2 years old. I have yet to experience a problem with either charger. I am sure that most sold never fail.

Quite true, I am sure. But then, what to make of the one Amazon reviewer who claims to not only have had his first BC9009 melt down on the first charge, but also his replacement BC9009 melted down on the first charge? I'm not sure what exactly to make of that. If we take these increased recent reports, including lolzertank's above, at face value, then it seems something is newly amiss.

 

[lolzertank]

Perhaps they switched the FET for one with a higher on resistance...?

It wouldn't matter if they did. Assuming the power supply, battery voltage, and charge current are the same, it's still dissipating the same amount of heat.

I can think of four possible reasons why the buttons are melting now:

1) The power supply voltage was raised, perhaps to a more common voltage like 3.3V.

2) The PCB was redesigned, moving the MOSFETs closer to the switches.

3) More vias were added in the PCB to help dissipate heat from the MOSFET, thus reducing meltdowns. The side effect is that more heat reaches the other side of the PCB and melts the buttons.

4) The quality of the plastic used in the buttons is lower in the BC-9009 than the original BC-900.

 

[MarioJP]

Re: LaCrosse BC-9009 / BC-900 - The Melt-downs Continue...

Quite true, I am sure. But then, what to make of the one Amazon reviewer who claims to not only have had his first BC9009 melt down on the first charge, but also his replacement BC9009 melted down on the first charge? I'm not sure what exactly to make of that. If we take these increased recent reports, including lolzertank's above, at face value, then it seems something is newly amiss.

Really, that's strange because that's where I have bought both of my chargers from amazon bc-9009 and worked flawlessly from day one.

The firmware on both my charger is 35 both adapters are 3 volts 4 amps max. I would guess that 3.3 volts is a bit too high which begs to ask. Why would they even raise the voltage in the first place??.

 

[Elliot]

I'm kind of courious about the people who buy a brand new untested piece of electrical equipment - then use it flat out at the maxium setting - without carefully watching it in the first place. Really, for the first couple of uses, how hard is it to touch the batteries and say "gee these are hot!"

I currently have five Ni metal chargers, three are much larger than the BC-900. The only one smaller is Sanyo's (came in Costco package). The Sanyo is the only one I won't use - cells gets HOT in it, eneloops encluded.

If your cells are too hot to touch - something is wrong. Please don't wait for a meltdown, with a small, passivly cooled, plastic cased charger you might get one.

I use my BC-900 charger at 500 or 700ma for AA's and 200 or 500 for AAA's. I have the display showing the voltage of all fours cell at the same time. When the voltage gets up to 1.45, I watch pretty carefully. If the voltage is 1.45 and the cell is getting warm it's done. If I can't be around, I use a cheap slow, really slow charger.

If a cell seems to charge "funny". Throw it out!:mecry:

Monitoring is a common practice for those of us that charge Li-ion cells.

 

[MarioJP]

Exactly!! I don't let the batteries get too hot. Fresh new NiMh batteries don't get warm at 1A charging all 4 cells at the beginning. When its at the middle and nearing the end of the charge cycle that is when the cells finally starts to get warm. Another thing I do is I flip the charger upside down so the heat rises up and away from the cells so to prevent secondary heat generated by the charger There are more vents on the bottom than on the top. The heat does travel pretty well through the plastic quite easily if charging at a high current rate and not upside down, and If the charger is not well ventilated it can probably cause a MELTDOWN. Problem with NiMh cells is you don't know when the internal resistance is high enough until you realize "gee while my cells are getting too hot all of a sudden".

Also the adapter should be 3V 4A max. I also realized that this charger does not like when there is power spikes in the line. It causes to either reset or start to heat up quite fast out of randomly. That was strange and this gave me another reason why I am glad that I cleaned the charger. Give it a good steady clean power from the source and things should be ok. I might take it apart if it needs cleaning from the inside. So far the connectivity problem was the barrel and also the jack from the back of the charger. The barrel should give a tighter feel when plugging it in to the charger though. I am starting to wonder that might be a clue to the cause of this charger melting I don't know.

Overall this is a really great charger. Definitely prefer over the Maha charger. I just do not like it. Its too clunky lol. Not to mention You can force the bc 9009 charger to charge other battery chemistry like the Ni-zn . This charger is a true analyzer the simple fact you can analyze alkalines,lithium just to measure whats the true capacities are.

 

[moldyoldy]

I'm kind of courious about the people who buy a brand new untested piece of electrical equipment - then use it flat out at the maxium setting - without carefully watching it in the first place. Really, for the first couple of uses, how hard is it to touch the batteries and say "gee these are hot!"

I currently have five Ni metal chargers, three are much larger than the BC-900. The only one smaller is Sanyo's (came in Costco package). The Sanyo is the only one I won't use - cells gets HOT in it, eneloops encluded.

If your cells are too hot to touch - something is wrong. Please don't wait for a meltdown, with a small, passivly cooled, plastic cased charger you might get one.

I use my BC-900 charger at 500 or 700ma for AA's and 200 or 500 for AAA's. I have the display showing the voltage of all fours cell at the same time. When the voltage gets up to 1.45, I watch pretty carefully. If the voltage is 1.45 and the cell is getting warm it's done. If I can't be around, I use a cheap slow, really slow charger.

If a cell seems to charge "funny". Throw it out!:mecry:

Monitoring is a common practice for those of us that charge Li-ion cells.

Agreed! Monitoring should be a common practice! Do not ignore reality!

I have had a lot of chargers cross my desk(s) over the years starting from the GE NiCd cells. All chargers that were physically small with cells nearly touching each other caused significant heating.

Dumping 4amps of current starting from some 3VDC into a small space has to eventually go somewhere - via heat dissipation. The end result is overheated cells and charger. No way to cheat on such a heat equation!

Another problem: Regardless of the theoretically correct charging parameters for a NiMh cell, if the cells overheat, cut back on the charging current! or purchase another charger.

IOW, to be specific and blunt regarding the LaCrosse BC-900 or analogous products: Charging 4 AA cells placed side-by-side at 1000ma each is very explicitly NOT RECOMMENDED due to excessive heat buildup in both charger and cells.

In my opinion based on having possessed several copies of the BC-900 charger, the charging current in the BC-900 needs to be limited to a maximum of 700ma and preferably 500ma. Even at 700ma charge current for 4 cells, the cells get almost too hot.

a moldyoldy.....who has examined many pieces of melted or burned electronic devices over the years - all supposedly safe.

 

[linterno]

I think this melt down is more related to poor quality batteries than LaCrosse BC-900/9009 problem.

I have cheap/poor quality batteries and eneloop ones. The cheap ones get hot when charged at 1000mA in my BC-900 so I usually charge only three at a time to allow them ventilate better (one on each extreme and the other in any of the middle bays).

Eneloops don't even get warm when charging 4 at the same time at 1000mA.

 

[Conan]

I think this melt down is more related to poor quality batteries than LaCrosse BC-900/9009 problem.

I have cheap/poor quality batteries and eneloop ones. The cheap ones get hot when charged at 1000mA in my BC-900 so I usually charge only three at a time to allow them ventilate better (one on each extreme and the other in any of the middle bays).

Eneloops don't even get warm when charging 4 at the same time at 1000mA.

The latest meltdown happened to a member charging Eneloops.

 

[linterno]

The latest meltdown happened to a member charging Eneloops.

I didn't find any reference to eneloops melting BC-900. The only reference in this thread I found about eneloops getting hot is:

I currently have five Ni metal chargers, three are much larger than the BC-900. The only one smaller is Sanyo's (came in Costco package). The Sanyo is the only one I won't use - cells gets HOT in it, eneloops encluded.

In my case my eneloop don't even get warm at 1000mA.

 

[Bones]

I didn't find any reference to eneloops melting BC-900. The only reference in this thread I found about eneloops getting hot is:

In my case my eneloop don't even get warm at 1000mA.

Hi linterno,

Conan is correct, one member was RaVeN38571 and the cells were Duraloops being charged in the new BC-9009.

Additional details can be found in the last two hyperlinks in the first post.

Another report was posted by kramer5150. The cells were Eneloops and the charger was the BC-900:

My cousin is visiting for the holiday and was charging his eneloops in his lacrosse charger.. when this happened.

The charger + cells were SCORCHING hot, nearly burned my hand when I touched the cells. The LCD screen turned black, and stank to all he11 and back.

What could have caused this? He uses this charger all the time for nearly 6-7 years. I always use it to charge my energizer 2450 cells when I visit his place.

There are more...

 

[linterno]

I'm sorry. I didn't find that. You are right.

 

[Elliot]

Conan is correct, one member was RaVeN38571 and the cells were Duraloops being charged in the new BC-9009.
...
Another report was posted by kramer5150. The cells were Eneloops and the charger was the BC-900:

If I remember correctly RaVen's unit was brand new - you have to watch new stuff.
"The Kramer incident" happened with an old unit which was upgraded years ago. Heat kills lots of stuff over time.