LaCrosse BC-9009 / BC-900 - The Melt-Downs Continue...

[ShawnLam]

I just experienced a melt-down. I am fortunate that I happened to be in the same room when it started or there is no doubt in my mind that it would have started a fire if I didn't unplug the charger as quickly as I did. It happened VERY fast. Within 30 seconds from the time I entered the room with the charger it started to smell, smoke, and melt.

I was charging a pair of Sanyo Eneloop batteries at 1,000 mA. They were spaced on either side of the charger, separated by the two middle spots. Only one melted. The batteries were in the charger for two hours.

The chargers are only 6 weeks old and this was only the second time I changed the charge current from the default of 200 mA to 1,000 mA.

I'd actually just given approval on an article I wrote for EventDV Magazine, due to appear in January. The article was a review of rechargeable batteries and chargers, for use in wireless lavaliere microphones. Needless to say the first thing I did when I had the melt situation under control was to tell my editor that I'm going to be doing a re-write, especially the part where I was recommending the LaCrosse charger.

Here is one of the photos - follow the links for a few others:
Top - Button sunk from heat
Bottom - Notice the plastic starting to melt
Inside - Board is black

 

[Black Rose]

:welcome:

Is (was) that a 900 or a 9009?

Wow, 6-weeks old and already a pile of melted goo....not good.

Glad you were able to catch that before something really bad happened.

BTW, the maximum size for pictures shown in a post is 800x600.

 

[Conan]

Good thing you caught it in time Shawn! This charger is really dangerous!

 

[moldyoldy]

yes, there have been many meltdowns reported of the BC-9xxx. however in most cases the user reported charging at 1000ma or higher. By comparison, I have not observed any reports of meltdowns of the BC-700, whether on CPF or a few searches on the Internet. Heat kills electronics sooner or later! The design of the BC-9xxx produces excessive internal heat! I strongly feel that the BC-900 or BC9009 needs to be limited to no more than a 700ma charge rate and preferably 500ma. If that is too slow, then find another charger.

 

[Mr Happy]

I just experienced a melt-down...

That charger was a BC-9009.

There were occasional reports of meltdowns with the BC-900, but not that many. With the BC-9009 it seems like reports of meltdowns are coming in by the week.

It may be time to suspect that there is a systematic design problem with the BC-9009 and to issue a firm recommendation against buying it?

 

[r1gm1n]

Not to mention You can force the bc 9009 charger to charge other battery chemistry like the Ni-zn .

I have been wanting to do that with my 9009 Alpha. Do you mind revealing what Your method was ? I have both the PowerGenix and the Super Z brandings.

 

[mitro]

I haven had the BC-9009 meltdown but I have caught it getting very hot when charging Duraloops. I was doing 4 cells @ 1000ma though. I didn't know it was an issue until I did a lil' more research. Now I've got a C-9000 on the way (which I should have bought in the first place)

EDIT: And my #4 button is sunk (apparently from the near meltdown, haven't opened it up.)

 

[KiwiMark]

and preferably 500ma.

Both mine have charged 4 cells at 700mA so many times that I seriously doubt the need to go down to 500mA for safety. I have also charged 4 cells at 1000mA and 2 cells at 1500mA - but now I think I will only charge at those higher rates if I will be in the same room, just in case.

 

[Mr Happy]

Both mine have charged 4 cells at 700mA so many times that I seriously doubt the need to go down to 500mA for safety. I have also charged 4 cells at 1000mA and 2 cells at 1500mA - but now I think I will only charge at those higher rates if I will be in the same room, just in case.

But is yours a BC-900 or a BC-9009?

 

[Bones]

That charger was a BC-9009.

....

With the BC-9009 it seems like reports of meltdowns are coming in by the week.

...

It may soon be more appropriate to state they're coming in by the day. I just had another look at Amazon and found reports of 4 more incidences since I summarized them in post 1 slightly more than a week ago:

Dated 19 Dec 2009 (Two Incidences):

http://www.amazon.com/review/R15CP9DB5DASPI

Dated 15 Dec 2009:

http://www.amazon.com ... MsgID=Mx2FSQ3IYXHPOO1

Dated 14 Dec 2009:

http://www.amazon.com ... MsgID=Mx3MROLMCWQVV1K

...

It may be time to suspect that there is a systematic design problem with the BC-9009 and to issue a firm recommendation against buying it?

I agree, especially after seeing the images posted today by ShawnLam. If whatever released the melted metal sitting inside the base got that hot in thirty seconds, imagine how much hotter it could have gotten had he not been there to pull the plug.

Incidentally, NLee the Engineer, the reviewer on Amazon that has positioned himself as their de facto adviser on LaCrosse chargers, just issued this comment respecting the increasing reports of melt-downs:

I was trying to stay out of this. Oh well...

I can report my own experience. I have two BC-900 (the older model), purchased 3-4 years ago. I have never obseved over-heating problem due to failure to detect end-of-charge signal. The BC-900 has several mechanisms to ensure proper charge-termination, including:
- negative dV/dt
- voltage threshold
- thernal shut down
So under normal conditions, it should never get hot enough to melt the plastic case. Especially when people claim that they were charging at the lowest current of 200mA. At 300mW (1.5V * 200mA) per cell, there is just not enough energy to cause a melt down.

However, suppose the charger malfunctioned due to assembly error (such as a dry solder joint), or due to excessive stress (such as an electrostatic dischage), then all bets are off. Based on the number of negative reviews, I can only assume that La Crosse has rather poor quality control, so a small percentage of defective chargers escaped QC, or failed in the field. I'm not trying to discount the bad experience reported by some users. But that's the sad consequence of cheaply-assembled consumer electronics.

More...

Scary assumptions when contrasted with the educated analysis of the symptoms and potential consequences of these melt-downs posited here...

 

[MarioJP]

So this charger melts right on first use??

 

[KiwiMark]

But is yours a BC-900 or a BC-9009?

I have 2 BC-900 chargers. The newer one is about 14 months old and the older one is over 4 years old.

 

[MarioJP]

what's the firmware on both those chargers?

 

[MarioJP]

I have been wanting to do that with my 9009 Alpha. Do you mind revealing what Your method was ? I have both the PowerGenix and the Super Z brandings.

I did gave these batteries a try I just could not help my curiosity. One thing to know is Just be careful on which AA devices you be using these batteries.

Unless you have a device that needs the extra voltage (such as older cameras with flash,etc). I would not switch to these cells. Tested these cells in my mobile phone charger. Honestly I could not even tell the difference. They last just as long as duraloops but my 2850 ansmann last longer than the powergenix cells. The only thing I noticed while using these cells was the booster chip inside the charger was getting a bit too hot really fast, and occasionally would hear a faint high pitch whining noise.

In Conclusion. I do not want to use these cells in this device again or I will soon find myself replacing it lol.

I did do a discharge capacity test after charging these Ni-Zn cells using the BC-9009.

cell 1 1520mAh
cell 2 1540mAh
cell 3 1525mAh
cell 4 1525mAh

with that being said. Now lets talk about how I was able to successfully charge these Ni-Zn for those that wants to give it a try while trying to charge these cells in the La-crosse charger.


the trick is not whether the bc 9009 would charge these cells. Its more long the lines of having it to charge these cells to full capacity while avoiding overcharging and at the same time of how to get around the "full display". In fact you be more worried of being undercharged than overcharge as you will see "full display" couple of times during charging. Well to be fair their datasheet gave me a clue to when to stop charging.

Oh btw here is a interesting thing I discovered with these cells.

During charging there is absolutely no heat being generated whatsoever. The cells are cool even charging all 4 at 1amp for half an hour. The bc 9009 charger itself is barely warm.

Simply put these Ni-Zn cells have much higher charge efficiency than any NiMh out there on the market today.

This gave me another reason to like the La crosse charger even more! lol.

These cells are really pushing the la crosse charger as the voltage readings during charging are in the range 1.87V-1.93V. Around 1.9V that is when you want to discontinue charging. and yet no overheating, no melting at all In fact its like as if these cells were meant for the bc 9009 charger. There! overheating problem solved!!. Simply don't use NiMh to avoid overheating LOL. Seriously these cells do not warm up at all.

I think whats going on here is that the newer ones being made is just nothing more than a defect or too many of them coming out with a defect.

I guess i have to say I am one of those lucky ones considering that i order both of them from Amazon.

Though I really do hope they fix this potentially hazardous problem soon. Hopefully no fires have been reported yet.

Closing thought. This is all based on my actual experience.

 

[KiwiMark]

what's the firmware on both those chargers?

32 & 35

I've never had an issue of any kind with either of them.

 

[KiwiMark]

These cells are really pushing the la crosse charger as the voltage readings during charging are in the range 1.87V-1.93V. Around 1.9V that is when you want to discontinue charging. and yet no overheating, no melting at all In fact its like as if these cells were meant for the bc 9009 charger. There! overheating problem solved!!. Simply don't use NiMh to avoid overheating LOL. Seriously these cells do not warm up at all.

You would think that the higher the cell voltage the more the wattage going into them the more you are pushing the charger. But my understanding is that the more the charger has to drop the 3V input to what the cells need the harder it is working and the hotter it gets. So 1.9V per cell should mean the charger runs cooler than 1.4V per cell.

 

[MarioJP]

did both of them melted?

 

[Mr Happy]

what's the firmware on both those chargers?

It may be time to start considering the hardware. The frequency of problems with the BC-9009 might suggest it is constructed differently inside from the BC-900 even though it is programmed the same.

 

[r1gm1n]

. One thing to know is Just be careful on which AA devices you be using these batteries... . Tested these cells in my mobile phone charger. Honestly I could not even tell the difference.

If you are into such things, try them in an electric shaver. Turbo=charged !

LED Flashlights are brighter on this first generation. I do not have any Incands to try them with.

I did do a discharge capacity test after charging these Ni-Zn cells using the BC-9009.

Periodic deep discharge is healthy for rechargables. I think this unit discharges down to near the 0.9v threshold before resuscitation.
That is okay for NiMH but, "No bueno por nada" for NiZn.

Oh btw here is a interesting thing I discovered with these cells.

During charging there is absolutely no heat being generated whatsoever. The cells are cool even charging all 4 at 1amp for half an hour. The bc 9009 charger itself is barely warm.

Different chemistries have different properties. The 1 hour "Quick" charger does 2 AA's 1.6v @ 1500 mA.
The 5 hour "Fast" charger does 2 AA's 3.2v @ 300 mA.

The BC-9009 does have settings for 1500 mA and 1800 mA.

Hmm ! Where did I put that fire extinguisher ?

 

[Elliot]

For the record if anyone is afraid of their bc-900/9009 and it's in good working condition; I will buy it for $13 shipped (PayPal, CONUS.)

I don't want anyone to have a fire.:devil:

For those few posters who repeatedly repost Kramer's pictures - take a GOOD look at the last two pictures where you see the three cells together. Look at the writing, wrapper's color/the way it melts and the endcap. The middle cell is a cheap Chinese made fake eneloop.



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