Osram Halostar IRC lamps NOW in a HOST w/beamshots

[Action]

I hate to somewhat change the tenor of this conversation, but this is very close to what I have been trying to find out for a while...

What is the group opinion of running one of these IRC lamps direct with 18V? I'm getting a tri-bored 4D (woohoo!) and a Mad Maxabeam 15x2/3A Elite 2000mah battery pack. A Kiu switch is going in as soon as the hosts arrive. I was really thinking about using just a standard MR-16 setup when klomparens mentioned his bulb sales.

Any thoughts? Suggestions for reflecting the heat forward from one of these bulbs in an MR-16 setup? It appears that the Osram IRC MR-16 only comes with lens installed, this makes me more concerned about heat. Would you use it without the Mag lens or attempt to remove the lens from the MR-16? Has anyone tried ceramic coating the backside of lenses to restrict the flow of heat back to the switch area?

 

[Action]

double post...

 

[winny]

What is the group opinion of running one of these IRC lamps direct with 18V? I'm getting a tri-bored 4D (woohoo!) and a Mad Maxabeam 15x2/3A Elite 2000mah battery pack. A Kiu switch is going in as soon as the hosts arrive. I was really thinking about using just a standard MR-16 setup when klomparens mentioned his bulb sales.

You cannot run it at 18 V without softstart. Period.

Any thoughts? Suggestions for reflecting the heat forward from one of these bulbs in an MR-16 setup? It appears that the Osram IRC MR-16 only comes with lens installed, this makes me more concerned about heat.

No, it comes as a bare bulb as well, called the Osram Halostar IRC.

 

[andrewwynn]

one of my IRC lamps is a 5D that uses LION.. the voltage is almost identical to what you are going to get with 15x4/5A and it works extremely well. I use the 50W lamp in that light most often to get about 50 minutes runtime. The light is not quite as white or bright as my 2D 16x2/3A but it's quite nice.

I'm surprised to hear it can't deal with 18V w/o soft-start.. since the lamps have been pushed up over 20V (albeit slowly).. good to get some feedback on that one i've been thinking that DD was ok..

Well.. regulator will definitely do the trick as my IRC-5D has been working phenomenally well for about a year.. that might be your best bet.. it will work better anyhow.

you can build with the 'kiu kit' and use the G6.35 lamps which are easy to buy direct from slovania.

people have made heat shields around the KIU socket but more important is a finned head if you want to reduce the amount of heat by your hand. If you don't have a driver you don't have to worry too much about the heat quantity, you'll know when it's too hot to hold anymore

-awr

 

[Action]

What particular bulb would you recommend? Would you happen to have a link to it?

What if I also had a 24V 20x2/3A setup, any suggestions for a direct drive lamp?

one of my IRC lamps is a 5D that uses LION.. the voltage is almost identical to what you are going to get with 15x4/5A and it works extremely well. I use the 50W lamp in that light most often to get about 50 minutes runtime. The light is not quite as white or bright as my 2D 16x2/3A but it's quite nice.

The lamp should deal with the >19V spikes with fresh cells, so that should be quite a nice direct-drive solution.

you can build with the 'kiu kit' and use the G6.35 lamps which are easy to buy direct from slovania.

people have made heat shields around the KIU socket but more important is a finned head if you want to reduce the amount of heat by your hand. If you don't have a driver you don't have to worry too much about the heat quantity, you'll know when it's too hot to hold anymore

-awr

 

[winny]

What particular bulb would you recommend? Would you happen to have a link to it?

What if I also had a 24V 20x2/3A setup, any suggestions for a direct drive lamp?

The Osram Halostar IRC beats the completion just about always, but you need to go down in voltage if you want to go with direct drive.
There are few efficient 24 V lamps, but Osrams 24 V, 250 W Xenophot comes into my mind.
There are lower power versions of it too IIRC.

Also, I should correct myself. You _might_ be able to start it at 18 V, but the chance if instaflash is very very very high - not worth the risk in any way.

 

[roadie]

24volt 250 watt from osram .......

 

[Action]

Yeah, I saw the 250W Osram in a mac creation, the current is perhaps a bit too much for a Kiu switch to take. Maybe a lower wattage version would be interesting, especially if combined with a 3' head. Has anyone experimented with ceramic coating the interior of heads and the rear of lenses to minimize the heat transfer? I know that the heat has to go somewhere, but out the front appears at first glance to be the best place.

I'm going to need to read up on the regulators a bit more, I was just hoping that a direct drive 18V setup was out there and would work well.

 

[andrewwynn]

note my updated post.. after seeing winny's comments.. i'm surprised about 18V and DD.. i've never blown an IRC lamp and push them as hard as 19V..

here is a link to the IRC lamps at svetila.com.

I don't really support 'dd' lamps.. just way too much of a hassle to get a nice combination and the concept of 'resting' cells is so silly to me it feels like nails on a chalkboard... there is a 17% difference in voltage in NORMAL operation of an NIMH cell. that makes for a 75% difference in light output.. to get a nice white and efficient lamp you need to really really push it.. and the 'fresh cell' voltage will be too high... a good example is the 1185 lamp which is a 9.6V lamp we run at 10.8V.. well at 10.8 it's very nice.. but a '10.8V' battery will apply about 12.6V with a fresh charge and will blow the lamp instantly.

We have been toying with ideas of how to add a 16th cell.. like up through the middle of the switch.. with 16 cells you can regulate an IRC to 18.6V and it's mind altering nice.

winny: would using NTC or some simple form of soft-start work to DD the IRC at 18V?

I don't like if it comes off i'm trying to plug the hotdriver.. but they were invented because of this problem.. DD is just not a very good way to run a light efficiently..

take the 1185 again as example because it's the most popular hotwire lamp..

a 'drop in' solution using all stock parts and 3->1 plastic adapters for the cells.. you can expect about 1/2 an ohm or more resistance.. if you use the best batteries you will still only get:

9.21V to the lamp and output is 460L. efficiency is 25L/W and color is 3326..

now.. upgrade to a good battery pack like the fivemega or the smartpak and the resistance drops to 215mohm.. and the numbers go to:

10.1V at the lamp and output is 635L. efficiency is 30L/W and color is 3425
that is 38% increase in output with a 20% gain in efficiency and the color is nicer.

now upgrade to a KIU socket..

you'll get 10.55V at the lamp.. output is 739 and efficiency is 32.5L/W.. color 3472.

now upgrade to a hotdriver:
you'll get 10.73V to the lamp.. output is 785 and efficiency is 33.6L/W.. color 3491

now.. use 17500 cells in a 3x3 config with hotdriver..
you will get 11.1V to the lamp.. output of 880L and efficiency of 35.4L/W.. color 3522.

all these same principles apply to the IRC, but even at 18V the IRC re-rates to 46 L/W or 30% more efficient than the 1185 lamp.. but the color temp is noticeably lower.. which actually is just fine for outdoor work where it matches nature better.

my calculations for 18 vs 18.6V for IRC.. (50W model):

volt, amp, watt, t-lum, L/W, CCT:
18.0, 5.07, 91.3, 2742, 46.2, 3341
18.6, 5.16, 96.0, 3026, 48.5, 3447

the combination of the 300L and the rise in cct does make for a marked difference, but like i mentioned.. i have a 5D IRC lamp with 18V nominal.. i still set my driver to 18.5V to take advantage of the brighter output with fresh cells.. why turn it into heat afterall? if you are hosting in a maglight.. the hotdriver is a drop-in.

I haven't really figured out where i'd go with 24V but it seems to me there is that 250W winny just mentioned.. the beauty of that lamp is with the higher voltage.. current is reasonable.. the problem is.. 24V lamp at 24V drive.. won't be amazingly white, but it will sure be a lot of lumens! once you go to lower output you might as well use the IRC.. that is such a nice host i personally would definitely put in a hotdriver of course i get a pretty good deal on them :-D

-awr

 

[Northern Lights]

Andrew, I will DD my irc65Ws if you do not get an MC HD invented by the time I get the tube tri-bored on the Mag Charger.
I have stuffed the daylights out of my other Hot Wires with ceramic blanket material and it helps keep the heat up in the reflector. My concern with the new mag charger reflector is that it is glued quite well into the plastic frame, other MCs I have dealt with readily gave up the reflector out of the frame and I put fiber glass felt under those reflectors, I want to try the same thing with the ceramic blanket material in the MC before I buy, (if they can be found) a cammed smooth reflector for the MC. I think I can stuff the material into the frame through the vent holes, the forward part of the reflector is resting on that high temp glue but I think it would be better to be the blanket material. I sure would like to figure out how to break the bond of this new stuff.
How bad do you think I am going to melt things on my current course?
I had a problem logging into svetila.com once I set up an account. They contacted me however because they noticed I had filled a cart and did not check out. Good customer service, they straightened out the glitch and I got the bulbs in about ten days. Now I have to fabricate a ceramic socket into the MC to take the pins that are 6mm wide, I intend to use the inherint focus of the Mag system, I know you hate it and use only focused lights but as I explained to you a couple of times I do have a purpose for that flood effect so that is the way I have gone in a couple of lights. Maybe all of us will get some IRCs out about the same time, ya think?

 

[winny]

note my updated post.. after seeing winny's comments.. i'm surprised about 18V and DD.. i've never blown an IRC lamp and push them as hard as 19V..

...

winny: would using NTC or some simple form of soft-start work to DD the IRC at 18V?

Sure, running it there is no problem, but the surge current increases a lot here.

NTC might work, but they are usually slow, and the small fast ones can't take too much current. Perhaps several small ones. :thinking:

I'm trying to think out a way to show an instaflash at 18 V, but I don't have enough RC cells for that, and no lab supplies in school can provide enough cold inrush current. I'll see if I can dig up some capacitors to kill one or two with and give you a number where at least mine blew at.

 

[petrev]

Hi Winny

I would just like to say that for me the best solution would be a PIR like device (PIR-X) that PWM-Regulated a nice 6 pack of Li-Ions down to say 17-18V.

Please - Please - Please - can we have something . . .

Cheers Pete

 

[andrewwynn]

I'm trying to think out a way to show an instaflash at 18 V, but I don't have enough RC cells for that, and no lab supplies in school can provide enough cold inrush current. I'll see if I can dig up some capacitors to kill one or two with and give you a number where at least mine blew at.

I think i'll 'have a go' at a direct-start from 18V measuring V and I on an o-scope to get the current spike and see if it survives.

I use a 4F cap in parallel with my 10A, 20V bench supply it will supply 30+A for about 1/4 to 1/3 of a second.. it's a pretty good substitute for 'always fully charged' batteries and what i use for the hotdriver testing of 100W hotdrivers.

-awr

 

[Action]

Thanks andrewwynn! I look forward to seeing the results!

I'm looking at the hotdriver very seriously now, its looking pretty awesome. Does it handle higher voltages well? If I were to purchase one from you with a Kiu switch, would it work fine with 18-24V battery packs up to ~15amps?

 

[winny]

petrev,

I know I know...


awr,

Sounds like what I had in mind. When I come to think about it, it's not more than right that you do it. I touched three of them to see how much overdrive they can take so it's your turn now.

 

[andrewwynn]

hotdriver can handle up to 35A and 30V or so max... i'm making a special one to drive 12A at 39V out... let me know exactly what bat and lamp config you want to pair up.. email me vs talk off-topic or ask on my combo thread: http://cpfcombo.rouse.com

-awr

 

[LuxLuthor]

Can anyone make one of these setups for me like MAC made to get a 250W setup? I have the 3" head.

 

[Action]

That is quite a light for sure. I'm building something just like it but a bit less showy. A 4D tri-bore with a 24V pack from Mad Maxabeam. Head and reflector are yet to be determined, although Delghi's head is likely candidate or mayby FM's 3" heads. I will probably end up using the hotdriver with a Kiu as the switch.

Can anyone make one of these setups for me like MAC made to get a 250W setup? I have the 3" head.

 

[JimmyM]

I built a light based on the 64458. It's not an IRC bulb. It's a 90W, 4000 hour bulb. I've run it direct on 17 x 4 Ah 1/2Ds. I could run the 65W IRC DD on 15 1/2Ds with a modded Mag switch. If it were using a MOSFET (non-soft start) I'm sure it would instaflash on 15 cells. I had to rest them after charging as not to instaflash the IRC anyway. Blew 2 65W IRCs by not resting.
The 64458 can DD in 16 cells pretty fresh off the charger. It will DD on 17 cells if you rest them for a few hours. When running IIRC it got ~20V at the pins. AWR hotrater shows ~11,000 lumens.
Try the 64458 on for size. If your IRC can take a particular voltage the 458 certainly can. At ~20v it's roughly 200W. If you think the USL or Mag623 starts fires quickly, you should see this baby at work.

 

[zehnmm]

JimmyM: Thanks for sharing your experiences on the 64458. To be honest, I had not even thought about this one.