SureFire EB2 Backup - Review, photos, beamshots and discussion

[cankster]

Yea Machete God, like you I was waiting and hoping for an LX2 Ultra. One of my LX2's was modified by Milkyspit a few years ago and uses a 4 die led that puts out around 330 lumens on high and I think he set it for 10 or something on low. The LX2 Ultra would have been a perfect upgrade, but when the LX2 Ultra was cancelled etc, and the EB2 came out it seemed like a reasonable upgrade. The hot spot on the EB2 is substantially brighter and more focused while the spill was similar to my modified LX2 which was very floody.

 

[Machete God]

Machete God,

If I am reading you correctly, you are saying that the same circuitry or head is used in both the EB1T as well as the EB1C, and the only thing that sets them apart is the tail cap's operation? If that is the case then I would say it is ingenious that the head could recognize if I am using a clicky tail cap or the two stage tail cap. Can you do repeated constant high output on the EB1T if you keep mashing the tail cap down repeated, like a strobe or signal light without it changing modes?

Yes, exactly that. It really is quite clever, and despite my love for the 2-stage UI, I was really stoked to get a light that I could convert into a clicky by just swapping the body or tailcap (although in this case it needs to be the EB1C tailcap as the older E-series tailcaps will NOT work on the EB1). And yes, I can do a high mode strobe BUT - there's always a "but" isn't there? - the light "times out" for a second or two on the 8th press, then resumes operating as before. Perhaps the microprocessors in the head cannot process the commands fast enough, or something. I think this may have been fixed in later batches. Also, like I mentioned previously, I can get it to change modes like a clicky when mashing the button all the way down, but I have to do it really, really fast (and even then I don't succeed all the time). I've found these to be more "quirks" than "cons" to me, as they've never affected the way I use the light. Your mileage may vary!

Hope I didn't derail the thread too much, but since the EB1 and the EB2 (presumably) share the same UI and modes of operation I figure these might be useful information.

 

[pjandyho]

I don't think you have derailed the thread. The reason I asked about your EB1 has everything to do with the EB2 as it gives me an idea about how the EB2 is going to perform, or rather should perform.

 

[cankster]

Ok, so I talked to Surefire. They told me they would have it picked up and fixed. It seems many of these were incorrectly programmed with the clicky flash. The head is the same for both models it seems, with the difference being the flash programming. So when we thought we had the clicky head on the tactical model, in effect we were correct. Fortunately they say its easily correctable but odds are good if you got one of these that your head is programmed for a clicky. Oh btw for the record Surefire was great about all this, they were open, no nonsense and focused on making it right.

Cank.

 

[Machete God]

Thanks for reporting back, cankster - very enlightening. It's strange (to me) that they would opt to use different programming between the clicky and the tactical models, my tactical model works perfect with a clicky body. Besides, how do they themselves tell which head is programmed for which, to prevent a repeat of the problem with your light? Maybe the red dot near the positive contact on the inside of the head that was seen in earlier pictures?

 

[cland72]

<snip> It's strange (to me) that they would opt to use different programming between the clicky and the tactical models <snip>

They would have to use differently programmed heads, or else you'd have a tactical model that would only come on in low when fully depressed from off, similiarly speaking you'd have a clicky model that would always come on in high.

 

[cankster]

Hard to say. Is it a EB2 clicky that is working perfectly with a tactical tailcap? If no then perhaps thats the diff, maybe this is specific with EB2's. But mine works exactly like you would think it would if it was a EB2 clicky with a tactical switch on it, if it senses high power then senses it again withen 2 secs it switches just like the clicky would. He said there was 2 programs that got flashed on them as well, so perhaps that could explain a little more variability in these. IDK, but I am just pleased that it was not their desired goal and that my flashlight will soon act like every other I have had from them.

Cank

 

[glock_nor_cal]

Hard to say. Is it a EB2 clicky that is working perfectly with a tactical tailcap? If no then perhaps thats the diff, maybe this is specific with EB2's. But mine works exactly like you would think it would if it was a EB2 clicky with a tactical switch on it, if it senses high power then senses it again withen 2 secs it switches just like the clicky would. He said there was 2 programs that got flashed on them as well, so perhaps that could explain a little more variability in these. IDK, but I am just pleased that it was not their desired goal and that my flashlight will soon act like every other I have had from them.

Cank

so do you have to pay to ship it back to Surefire? Mine has this problem as well

 

[cankster]

No, they are having it picked up by UPS.

 

[S1LVA]

If you need to strobe, I found that it will work if you twist on to low first. Then you can tap to high as fast or slow as you want and it won't get stuck on low when it should be on high. Although, in between presses to high it will revert to low because its locked on low via the twist.

I understand why some people think the light is glitching or programmed wrong but my EB1 with the tactical switch was the same way. I can also put the EB2 head on a clicky body and it works the same as the clicky should. I wonder why Surefire claims that there are two firmware versions when my EB2 head works just fine as a clicky or tactical.

Andrew

 

[cankster]

If you need to strobe, I found that it will work if you twist on to low first. Then you can tap to high as fast or slow as you want and it won't get stuck on low when it should be on high. Although, in between presses to high it will revert to low because its locked on low via the twist.

I understand why some people think the light is glitching or programmed wrong but my EB1 with the tactical switch was the same way. I can also put the EB2 head on a clicky body and it works the same as the clicky should. I wonder why Surefire claims that there are two firmware versions when my EB2 head works just fine as a clicky or tactical.

Andrew

I didn't get that deep into the details with them. I mean perhaps the cap itself gets one flash program and the head the other, they did say that the light got 2 programs. He said that the tactical version should go to high when pressed to high, that it should never go to low when its fully depressed, which is how I thought it should act of course, and its how every other of my flashlights from them operate. But I will say again, any tactical 2 stage Surefire light should never go to low when the switch is fully depressed. The reasons for this are clear to me, and backed up by the Surefire tech, that its not what they want them doing.

 

[880arm]

Ok, so I talked to Surefire. They told me they would have it picked up and fixed . . .

Thanks for sharing. I remember these same discussions when the EB1 first came out.

I'm expecting a package from SureFire tomorrow that will hopefully have a tan EB2T in it. I'll check to see which behavior it exhibits when used with the EB2C tailcap.

 

[Robin24k]

There should be different heads for the EB2, or at least different firmware. I can't repro the high/low switching behavior on my EB2T, regardless how hard or fast I press it. Preflash and temporary lockout issues found in the EB1T are not present in the EB2T, and shorting the tailcap does not switch high/low.

EDIT: LED is something I haven't seen before...the base is white (no black dots like Nichia 219A, and no black triangle like Nichia 219B), and there are two gold dots on opposite sides of the die.

 

[glock_nor_cal]

I didn't get that deep into the details with them. I mean perhaps the cap itself gets one flash program and the head the other, they did say that the light got 2 programs. He said that the tactical version should go to high when pressed to high, that it should never go to low when its fully depressed, which is how I thought it should act of course, and its how every other of my flashlights from them operate. But I will say again, any tactical 2 stage Surefire light should never go to low when the switch is fully depressed. The reasons for this are clear to me, and backed up by the Surefire tech, that its not what they want them doing.

Well this is not what I was told today when I called Surefire. The guy on the phone said he had one in his hand and could replicate the problem I had, and said that it depends on how fast he strobed the light. He was wishy washy on whether my light was malfunctioning or not. He offered to give me an RMA and ship it back to them at my cost which I declined.

 

[Robin24k]

Any ideas on the LED? Here are some pics...

​

EDIT: I think it's an OSRAM Oslon Square. There was some talk at SHOT 2013 about OSRAM LEDs, but the giveaway on the EB2 would be the grey border with an edge for the lettering:

http://flashlightwiki.com/images/3/38/Osram-oslon.jpg

 

[Machete God]

If you need to strobe, I found that it will work if you twist on to low first. Then you can tap to high as fast or slow as you want and it won't get stuck on low when it should be on high. Although, in between presses to high it will revert to low because its locked on low via the twist.

I understand why some people think the light is glitching or programmed wrong but my EB1 with the tactical switch was the same way. I can also put the EB2 head on a clicky body and it works the same as the clicky should. I wonder why Surefire claims that there are two firmware versions when my EB2 head works just fine as a clicky or tactical.

Andrew

There were reports of timeout, pre-flash and unexpected mode in early EB1s that were fixed in later batches so my guess is that SureFire changed the firmware. It's not that far-fetched that they would decide to go with clicky or tactical-specific firmware to address the issues, is it? After all, the majority of buyers won't be swapping parts to get their light to function in ways not described on the box. My early-ish EB1T (serial #5000) has these issues although I hesitate to call them as such, they've never interfered with my normal operation of the light! Also, see Robin24k's post I've quoted below.

I didn't get that deep into the details with them. I mean perhaps the cap itself gets one flash program and the head the other, they did say that the light got 2 programs...

Nah... pretty sure the tailcap on the clicky version is just a simple on-off switch, and the tactical incorporates a resistored circuit for low mode, but that's about it - no fancy electronics in the tailcap. May be totally mistaken, though!

There should be different heads for the EB2, or at least different firmware. I can't repro the high/low switching behavior on my EB2T, regardless how hard or fast I press it. Preflash and temporary lockout issues found in the EB1T are not present in the EB2T, and shorting the tailcap does not switch high/low...

Robin, thanks for these choice morsels of information. I guess SF decided that a single, do-it-all version of firmware is more trouble than it's worth!

Well this is not what I was told today when I called Surefire. The guy on the phone said he had one in his hand and could replicate the problem I had, and said that it depends on how fast he strobed the light. He was wishy washy on whether my light was malfunctioning or not. He offered to give me an RMA and ship it back to them at my cost which I declined.

Wait for an outcome to cankster's case, then try again?

Any ideas on the LED? Here are some pics...

​

Hard to tell, XM-L2? Can the XP-G2 get up to 500 lumens? Or perhaps an emitter from Nichia? Somebody open up theirs already! :devil:

Caught your edit, thanks for more information! Flashlight Wikia is interpreting your direct linking to the image as an attempt to hot-link, though. Here's a link to the Wiki page itself: http://flashlightwiki.com/Osram#Oslon_Square

 

[glock_nor_cal]

I am going to see how it goes with his light before I send mine back. I hope they don't keep it long! The high/low thing is starting to bother me, but I don't want to be without my new toy for several weeks

 

[Machete God]

I am going to see how it goes with his light before I send mine back. I hope they don't keep it long! The high/low thing is starting to bother me, but I don't want to be without my new toy for several weeks

Keep it on the L4 body and use it as a clicky for now

 

[cankster]

Well this is not what I was told today when I called Surefire. The guy on the phone said he had one in his hand and could replicate the problem I had, and said that it depends on how fast he strobed the light. He was wishy washy on whether my light was malfunctioning or not. He offered to give me an RMA and ship it back to them at my cost which I declined.

Well that does not surprise me, its always a riot talking to different or even the same people from day to day. I have seen in my business the same individuals or departments talking to different employees of mine and received shockingly different reports. I will post an update on how it functions when I get it back. If it works as it should and goes to high every time i push high, as of course it should always do, then I guess its up to the individual to decide what is working properly for a tactical switch: sometimes high is low and sometimes high is high or....... high is always high, and low is always low. To me one is clearly the correct way it should work and one at least to me very undesirable. Then it comes down to if you can do without your flashlight for a week or 2 while its fixed. The tech I talked to yesterday said they might have to reprogram their inventory due to this problem. The person you talked to may have said it was designed purposely to be erratic and glitchy, go figure. The truth to me is clear, who would want it, or design it, to have high sometimes be low?

Cank.

 

[Robin24k]

What's the S/N of your light?

There were reports of timeout, pre-flash and unexpected mode in early EB1s that were fixed in later batches so my guess is that SureFire changed the firmware. It's not that far-fetched that they would decide to go with clicky or tactical-specific firmware to address the issues, is it? After all, the majority of buyers won't be swapping parts to get their light to function in ways not described on the box. My early-ish EB1T (serial #5000) has these issues although I hesitate to call them as such, they've never interfered with my normal operation of the light! Also, see Robin24k's post I've quoted below.

That's news to me. Were the issues fixed by specializing the heads?

Hard to tell, XM-L2? Can the XP-G2 get up to 500 lumens? Or perhaps an emitter from Nichia?

That's what I was thinking, but the die is much smaller. I'm surprised that the Oslon Square is able to put out 500 lumens...the EB2 draws 1.2A at the tail, which is the same as the Fury. Could the OSRAM be as efficient as the XM-L?