SureFire EB2 Backup - Review, photos, beamshots and discussion

[Machete God]

What's the S/N of your light?

A05000. Not an early-ish number like 00089 or something, I know. My light runs beautifully on primaries, IFR and IMR (and also ICR actually, but only in the 14500 size and above) whereas other users have reported ability to use either IFR or IMR, but not both. This led me to believe that my light is an "early" version... perhaps mistakenly?

That's news to me. Were the issues fixed by specializing the heads?

LOL! If it's news to you, it's probably news to me! You mean to say the issues were NOT fixed, and if I bought a brand new EB1T today I would experience the timeout, pre-flash and unexpected modes? I had come to this conclusion (that the issues had been fixed in later batches) based on reports in the EB1 discussion threads and also partly based on the fact that you mentioned the EB2 heads were specialised.

That's what I was thinking, but the die is much smaller. I'm surprised that the Oslon Square is able to put out 500 lumens...the EB2 draws 1.2A at the tail, which is the same as the Fury. Could the OSRAM be as efficient as the XM-L?

It appears so! The efficiency of Oslon Square's highest bin (NQ) at 1.5A is right smack in the middle of the XM-L's T5 and T6 bins (see http://flashlightwiki.com/Osram#Oslon_Square vs http://flashlightwiki.com/Cree#XM-L). Still waiting for an intrepid CPFer to crack open his EB2 and get us some close-up pictures of the emitter

 

[cankster]

I emailed the tech I have been dealing with today to let him know the light was on its way, and ask a question . I asked him to be very clear on what I should expect when it comes back and what their design goal was for a tactical switch, specifically the EB2's. I said it was my understanding that a 2 stage tactical switch should go low on half press and high on full press, and never vary from that. He said "That is correct, if you mash the light it should always and only come on in high and not switch to low".

Not sure if this clears anything up, but I was glad to hear it.

Cank.

 

[Machete God]

I emailed the tech I have been dealing with today to let him know the light was on its way, and ask a question . I asked him to be very clear on what I should expect when it comes back and what their design goal was for a tactical switch, specifically the EB2's. I said it was my understanding that a 2 stage tactical switch should go low on half press and high on full press, and never vary from that. He said "That is correct, if you mash the light it should always and only come on in high and not switch to low".

Not sure if this clears anything up, but I was glad to hear it.

Cank.

Thank you for the update and for asking a precise and explicit question, Cank.

 

[Robin24k]

A05000. Not an early-ish number like 00089 or something, I know. My light runs beautifully on primaries, IFR and IMR (and also ICR actually, but only in the 14500 size and above) whereas other users have reported ability to use either IFR or IMR, but not both. This led me to believe that my light is an "early" version... perhaps mistakenly?

I believe I asked the S/N question for the EB2T with high/low switching, just to see if it was an early EB2. Anyways, the problem with LFP on single-cell SureFire lights is the fully-charged voltage. Does yours work with fully-charged LFP (~3.65V)?

LOL! If it's news to you, it's probably news to me! You mean to say the issues were NOT fixed, and if I bought a brand new EB1T today I would experience the timeout, pre-flash and unexpected modes? I had come to this conclusion (that the issues had been fixed in later batches) based on reports in the EB1 discussion threads and also partly based on the fact that you mentioned the EB2 heads were specialised.

I've been out of the loop for a couple months due to work, and I've only been reading a couple threads because of the EB2. I'm not sure what the status is on the EB1...will need to ask for an update on that.

It appears so! The efficiency of Oslon Square's highest bin (NQ) at 1.5A is right smack in the middle of the XM-L's T5 and T6 bins (see http://flashlightwiki.com/Osram#Oslon_Square vs http://flashlightwiki.com/Cree#XM-L). Still waiting for an intrepid CPFer to crack open his EB2 and get us some close-up pictures of the emitter

I'm pretty convinced that it's an Oslon Square, so I won't try that. :nana:

 

[Swedpat]

Even if I have many Surefire lights and love them, I am a bit dissapointed when it comes to these new versions. At first I was doubtful about the claim of same runtime with 500lm as the 200lm of the predecessor, and I was right. The claimed runtime is until the brightness is 50lm and the true stable brightness is ~350lm. In other words not that much improvement compared to the predecessor as one could think based on the specification.

 

[leon2245]

"chinese lumens"

 

[cankster]

Even if I have many Surefire lights and love them, I am a bit dissapointed when it comes to these new versions. At first I was doubtful about the claim of same runtime with 500lm as the 200lm of the predecessor, and I was right. The claimed runtime is until the brightness is 50lm and the true stable brightness is ~350lm. In other words not that much improvement compared to the predecessor as one could think based on the specification.

I can understand being annoyed about the stable vs. burst lumens, especially with them not calling them burst, but were not the other models run times based to 50lm as well?

 

[880arm]

EB2T Tan arrived today and it's nice

I liked the little bit of extra grip provided by the finish on the EB2C-BK but this tan version puts it to shame. It is even more of a matte finish and is even more tactile. I'm anxious to carry it for a few days and will be updating the review with my observations.

I haven't had much time to play around with it yet but I did do some parts swapping to get an idea of how all the different versions worked with the various switches. All of the following is based upon the following three lights:

EB2C-BK A00295 (Black with clicky switch - the one I first reviewed)
EB2T-TN A01012 (Tan with tactical 2-stage switch - just arrived)
EB1C-BK A01255 (Black with clicky switch - bought when they first came out)

An LX2 and E1B were involved for comparison purposes as well.

Results

The EB2C and EB2T heads are different. As already mentioned it's probably just a programming thing or a jumper added/removed inside the head but they definitely do not operate the same way.

The EB2T uses a single mode head, just like the LX2. As with the LX2, the low output is derived solely from the resistor in the tailcap. When tested in different configurations I achieved the following results:

• EB2T (in stock form) - I got the same results as Robin. A full press always resulted in high output no matter how fast I pressed or how I tried to "trick" it.
• EB2T head + EB2C switch - High mode all the time. No low mode.

Other tests:

• EB2C head + EB2T tailcap - I had the same results as cankster with his EB2T. I believe all the talk about the head having the wrong programming is confusing the issue. They probably just put the wrong head on your light. Aside from the obvious difference in color (one is tan, one is black) I can't see any external differences on the EB2C and EB2T heads, even down to the red dot next to the spring.
• I tried both heads on an LX2 and they behaved the same as above. The EB2T head worked fine, the EB2C head would go High/Low when cycled quickly (just like most other 2-mode lights).

Now, here's where it gets interesting . . . I tried the EB2T 2-stage tailcap on my EB1C and got the same result as described by Machete God. It worked pretty well as a 2-stage light and I had to try fairly hard to get it to mess up. I could get a little bit of a flash or flicker every now and then but 99% of the time it behaved like I wanted. From a practical standpoint I would say it was near perfect.

So, what's it all mean? Based on the three EBx lights I have on hand, I'm seeing evidence of 3 different UI's. The EB2T is a single mode head (like the LX2), the EB2C operates like a traditional 2-mode head (like the original E1B Backup), and the head from the EB1C manages to do both pretty well but not absolutely perfectly.

All this 2-stage tailcap activity has reminded me of how long it has been since I have carried my LX2 regularly. My first impression is that the tailcap on the EB2T is a little bit easier to press than the LX2 but the LX2 is still more comfortable in my hand. I will need to carry the EB2T for a while and see how I adjust.

 

[cankster]

I call that a level 1 report. Very interesting, thanks for your efforts .

Cank

 

[glock_nor_cal]

EB2T Tan arrived today and it's nice

I liked the little bit of extra grip provided by the finish on the EB2C-BK but this tan version puts it to shame. It is even more of a matte finish and is even more tactile. I'm anxious to carry it for a few days and will be updating the review with my observations.

I haven't had much time to play around with it yet but I did do some parts swapping to get an idea of how all the different versions worked with the various switches. All of the following is based upon the following three lights:

EB2C-BK A00295 (Black with clicky switch - the one I first reviewed)
EB2T-TN A01012 (Tan with tactical 2-stage switch - just arrived)
EB1C-BK A01255 (Black with clicky switch - bought when they first came out)

An LX2 and E1B were involved for comparison purposes as well.

Results

The EB2C and EB2T heads are different. As already mentioned it's probably just a programming thing or a jumper added/removed inside the head but they definitely do not operate the same way.

The EB2T uses a single mode head, just like the LX2. As with the LX2, the low output is derived solely from the resistor in the tailcap. When tested in different configurations I achieved the following results:

• EB2T (in stock form) - I got the same results as Robin. A full press always resulted in high output no matter how fast I pressed or how I tried to "trick" it.
• EB2T head + EB2C switch - High mode all the time. No low mode.

Other tests:

• EB2C head + EB2T tailcap - I had the same results as cankster with his EB2T. I believe all the talk about the head having the wrong programming is confusing the issue. They probably just put the wrong head on your light. Aside from the obvious difference in color (one is tan, one is black) I can't see any external differences on the EB2C and EB2T heads, even down to the red dot next to the spring.
• I tried both heads on an LX2 and they behaved the same as above. The EB2T head worked fine, the EB2C head would go High/Low when cycled quickly (just like most other 2-mode lights).

Now, here's where it gets interesting . . . I tried the EB2T 2-stage tailcap on my EB1C and got the same result as described by Machete God. It worked pretty well as a 2-stage light and I had to try fairly hard to get it to mess up. I could get a little bit of a flash or flicker every now and then but 99% of the time it behaved like I wanted. From a practical standpoint I would say it was near perfect.

So, what's it all mean? Based on the three EBx lights I have on hand, I'm seeing evidence of 3 different UI's. The EB2T is a single mode head (like the LX2), the EB2C operates like a traditional 2-mode head (like the original E1B Backup), and the head from the EB1C manages to do both pretty well but not absolutely perfectly.

All this 2-stage tailcap activity has reminded me of how long it has been since I have carried my LX2 regularly. My first impression is that the tailcap on the EB2T is a little bit easier to press than the LX2 but the LX2 is still more comfortable in my hand. I will need to carry the EB2T for a while and see how I adjust.

Nice. I love the look of the Tan. Thanks for the write-up. So do you have both the Tan and the Black EB2? You said the Tan is more grippy? Is in HAIII like the L4 body?

 

[SmokeJumperr]

EB2T Tan arrived today and it's nice

I liked the little bit of extra grip provided by the finish on the EB2C-BK but this tan version puts it to shame. It is even more of a matte finish and is even more tactile. I'm anxious to carry it for a few days and will be updating the review with my observations.

.

if you don't mind my asking, how'd you get a tan version? I can't find them anywhere and my usual go to SF dealer is still awaiting EB2's. I was just curious, you can PM if you prefer. Your reviews are very good.

 

[880arm]

Nice. I love the look of the Tan. Thanks for the write-up. So do you have both the Tan and the Black EB2? You said the Tan is more grippy? Is in HAIII like the L4 body?

I don't know whether my samples are representative of all others but yes, the tan copy I has just a little more grip than the black one. I can definitely tell the lights apart, just by touch. I don't really know how to quantify something like how "grippy" a finish is but neither light is what I would call slick (another term that's hard to quantify).

All of the new SureFire's are hard anodized. Come to think of it, I guess the 6P Original is the only one left that isn't HA.

if you don't mind my asking, how'd you get a tan version? I can't find them anywhere and my usual go to SF dealer is still awaiting EB2's. I was just curious, you can PM if you prefer. Your reviews are very good.

The Tan EB2T is a review sample from SureFire. I don't know when they will be available at retail but I wouldn't think it would be too long.

The release of the EB2's has gone differently than other recent lights. I bought my EB2C from a retailer I had never heard of before and it seems like only a few retailers have them so far.

 

[Robin24k]

I would say that the tan finish feels like 3000 grit sandpaper, so it's definately more grippy than the smooth black finish.

 

[880arm]

I would say that the tan finish feels like 3000 grit sandpaper, so it's definately more grippy than the smooth black finish.

I don't think I have ever handled 3000 grit before but I would say that's a good call. I was just sitting here thinking how it reminds me of a piece of fine grain Kentucky sandstone - both in look and feel.

 

[litlmh]

I'm more of a lurker than a poster, but I thought I'd chime in. My EB1T and EB2T both exhibit the same symptoms - mash on the tactical tailcap fast enough, and it switches modes when it's always supposed to be at full power. I've emailed Surefire to see what they'll say... hopefully this gets resolved!

 

[Swedpat]

I can understand being annoyed about the stable vs. burst lumens, especially with them not calling them burst, but were not the other models run times based to 50lm as well?

I think the predecessors also were, but without the ~30% decline within the first minutes.

 

[cankster]

I think the predecessors also were, but without the ~30% decline within the first minutes.

Yea so the only real issue is that they don't announce 500lm burst for lets say 2 minutes, then 350lm or whatever for 30min or whatever it was. Personally I like the burst concept because for me 2 min or less is most of my use, but I think I read that the burst then the drop, is not designed into the lights. That its an effect of battery voltage drop and not related to the flashlight. In this case the possibility exists for a battery to be produced that fixes this issue and lets the flashlight run at 500lm without dropping. From this perpective I can see how Surefire might not consider this "their" issue to announce/deal with.

Cank.

 

[880arm]

I think the predecessors also were, but without the ~30% decline within the first minutes.

You could call it a 30% decline for the first few minutes or a 30% "burst" until the battery voltage sags (EDIT: As suggested below, the drop may be regulated. See the next couple of posts) and the light begins running in regulation. One respected company is using the latter as a "feature" on some of their new lights.

I look forward to someone testing these new lights in an integrating sphere so we can know exactly at what point the EB2's output is 500 lumens. Is it at initial turn-on? At 30 seconds? Or could it be at 20 minutes after the light settles fully into regulation? I feel that many of us, myself included, may have made some incorrect assumptions about the EB2 and E2DL Ultra outputs dropping as low as 350 lumens after the initial "burst" is over.

Just like SureFire, Gene Malkoff has a solid reputation of accurately (some would say conservatively) rating the output of his lights so I went looking back through my old runtime tests and to see if I could come up with any valid comparisons. I changed my testing setup a while back so I couldn't use all of my data but my tests with the M361N LMH (375 rated lumens) and MDC AA (400 lumens on 1x14500) were run with the same rig I'm using now.

I'm just a guy with a light box and a meter so this doesn't "prove" anything about the absolute output (in lumens) of any of these lights but I feel confident in saying that the EB2 consistently produces more output than the other two. This would be expected based upon their rated outputs and the M361N makes for a nice comparison with its nearly dead-flat regulation after a small initial drop in output.

 

[Robin24k]

Personally I like the burst concept because for me 2 min or less is most of my use, but I think I read that the burst then the drop, is not designed into the lights. That its an effect of battery voltage drop and not related to the flashlight. In this case the possibility exists for a battery to be produced that fixes this issue and lets the flashlight run at 500lm without dropping.

No, that's not the case with regulated step-down, which is designed into the light. It will happen every time regardless of battery type or charge.

 

[Swedpat]

Yea so the only real issue is that they don't announce 500lm burst for lets say 2 minutes, then 350lm or whatever for 30min or whatever it was. Personally I like the burst concept because for me 2 min or less is most of my use, but I think I read that the burst then the drop, is not designed into the lights. That its an effect of battery voltage drop and not related to the flashlight. In this case the possibility exists for a battery to be produced that fixes this issue and lets the flashlight run at 500lm without dropping. From this perpective I can see how Surefire might not consider this "their" issue to announce/deal with.

Cank.

You could call it a 30% decline for the first few minutes or a 30% "burst" until the battery voltage sags and the light begins running in regulation. One respected company is using the latter as a "feature" on some of their new lights.

I look forward to someone testing these new lights in an integrating sphere so we can know exactly at what point the EB2's output is 500 lumens. Is it at initial turn-on? At 30 seconds? Or could it be at 20 minutes after the light settles fully into regulation? I feel that many of us, myself included, may have made some incorrect assumptions about the EB2 and E2DL Ultra outputs dropping as low as 350 lumens after the initial "burst" is over.

Just like SureFire, Gene Malkoff has a solid reputation of accurately (some would say conservatively) rating the output of his lights so I went looking back through my old runtime tests and to see if I could come up with any valid comparisons. I changed my testing setup a while back so I couldn't use all of my data but my tests with the M361N LMH (375 rated lumens) and MDC AA (400 lumens on 1x14500) were run with the same rig I'm using now.

I'm just a guy with a light box and a meter so this doesn't "prove" anything about the absolute output (in lumens) of any of these lights but I feel confidant in saying that the EB2 consistently produces more output than the other two. This would be expected based upon their rated outputs and the M361N makes for a nice comparison with its nearly dead-flat regulation after a small initial drop in output.

Interesting thoughts. Here I wonder: does this mean that the burst mode occurs only the first time you turn on the light with fresh batteries(if letting it be on for a while), and after that it will be regulated at the lower output from the start?