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With a Sunwayman V10R Ti, what would be the practicable reason to keep a McGizmo Ti?
- Thread starter Dadof6
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JWRitchie76
Flashlight Enthusiast
I was just reading a review on the LS20 by JS and I wanted to post a quote from there because I think it totally relates to this discussion. Keep in mind you can insert any custom light into this quote.
"Before closing, I'd like to say a few words of advice about buying high-end, expensive custom lights. Many people here, flashaholics though we all are, have never paid $400 or $500 for a flashlight, and consider the idea sheer insanity, or totally impractical, and that's fine. If $500 isn't in your budget, then it isn't in your budget. For some people, however, it is in their budget fiscally, but psychologically they have to go way out on a limb to "justify" it, and thus end up placing a great weight of high expectations on their expensive custom light. They end up losing perspective and stress out over any little defect in the finish of the light or the tint of the beam or what-not. This is no way to have a good high-end light experience! Take some advice from me on this one: if you have to go so far out on a limb to justify a LunaSol 20 or Ti-PD-S or other custom light, and will be disappointed with anything less than "perfection", then you'd best wait until you are in a better frame of mind before taking the plunge.
Ideally, you want to forget about the price altogether after you have paid it. You want to give the light a fair chance, a fair evaluation. I would suggest that you don't evaluate the light too quickly, nor only intellectually. Just use it. Rest assured that you can always sell it later if you decide against it, but for at least a couple weeks, just give it a chance and use it, and by "use" I do NOT mean to constantly compare it against your other lights and constantly shine it against a white wall to decide if it really is all that and a bag of chips. Rather, I mean use it for when you actually need a flashlight: EDC it, in other words. Let the experience and truth of the light unfold itself to you slowly and in its own way and time.
Specifically for the LunaSol 20, I would suggest that the PD action will probably exercise muscles which you've never had much call to work out before. It is going to take a little time for those muscles to develop, but it is TOTALLY WORTH IT. Invest the time and effort to do just a small amount of adapting to your new light. The PD action is awesome, one of my absolute favorite's, but it did take a week or two for me to get used to it and to build up a few appropriate hand muscles. For the first few days I found it a little strange and a little difficult to hold high constant on. That's probably normal, and if your experience is anything like mine, it will pass in short order, leaving you with a strong appreciation and preference for PD lights. Or, it's possible that you still might not like it, of course, and that's fine. It'd just be a shame to reject it in the first week because you found it difficult to activate. Also, I should mention that you can always substitute a weaker spring and/or cut the top loop or two off the existing spring, if you really decide a weaker spring-force is for you.
Over the long term, I would also suggest that you JUST USE YOUR LIGHT! Do NOT put it in a box or on a shelf because you are too afraid to use such an expensive light. A LunaSol 20 or Ti-PD-S or SunDrop shelf-queen is a terrible waste! Don't let these wonderful lights suffer such a fate! I mean, if that's what you want then fine. No problem. But just don't let fear and trepidation and constant awareness of the cost of these lights keep you from using them. Do yourself a favor, and put them through their paces. Use 'em hard. That's when the LunaSol 20 will really shine."
"Before closing, I'd like to say a few words of advice about buying high-end, expensive custom lights. Many people here, flashaholics though we all are, have never paid $400 or $500 for a flashlight, and consider the idea sheer insanity, or totally impractical, and that's fine. If $500 isn't in your budget, then it isn't in your budget. For some people, however, it is in their budget fiscally, but psychologically they have to go way out on a limb to "justify" it, and thus end up placing a great weight of high expectations on their expensive custom light. They end up losing perspective and stress out over any little defect in the finish of the light or the tint of the beam or what-not. This is no way to have a good high-end light experience! Take some advice from me on this one: if you have to go so far out on a limb to justify a LunaSol 20 or Ti-PD-S or other custom light, and will be disappointed with anything less than "perfection", then you'd best wait until you are in a better frame of mind before taking the plunge.
Ideally, you want to forget about the price altogether after you have paid it. You want to give the light a fair chance, a fair evaluation. I would suggest that you don't evaluate the light too quickly, nor only intellectually. Just use it. Rest assured that you can always sell it later if you decide against it, but for at least a couple weeks, just give it a chance and use it, and by "use" I do NOT mean to constantly compare it against your other lights and constantly shine it against a white wall to decide if it really is all that and a bag of chips. Rather, I mean use it for when you actually need a flashlight: EDC it, in other words. Let the experience and truth of the light unfold itself to you slowly and in its own way and time.
Specifically for the LunaSol 20, I would suggest that the PD action will probably exercise muscles which you've never had much call to work out before. It is going to take a little time for those muscles to develop, but it is TOTALLY WORTH IT. Invest the time and effort to do just a small amount of adapting to your new light. The PD action is awesome, one of my absolute favorite's, but it did take a week or two for me to get used to it and to build up a few appropriate hand muscles. For the first few days I found it a little strange and a little difficult to hold high constant on. That's probably normal, and if your experience is anything like mine, it will pass in short order, leaving you with a strong appreciation and preference for PD lights. Or, it's possible that you still might not like it, of course, and that's fine. It'd just be a shame to reject it in the first week because you found it difficult to activate. Also, I should mention that you can always substitute a weaker spring and/or cut the top loop or two off the existing spring, if you really decide a weaker spring-force is for you.
Over the long term, I would also suggest that you JUST USE YOUR LIGHT! Do NOT put it in a box or on a shelf because you are too afraid to use such an expensive light. A LunaSol 20 or Ti-PD-S or SunDrop shelf-queen is a terrible waste! Don't let these wonderful lights suffer such a fate! I mean, if that's what you want then fine. No problem. But just don't let fear and trepidation and constant awareness of the cost of these lights keep you from using them. Do yourself a favor, and put them through their paces. Use 'em hard. That's when the LunaSol 20 will really shine."
Th232
Flashlight Enthusiast
Don sells separate light engines to fit most of his lights.
kaichu dento
Flashaholic
The problem with automotive comparisons here is that if you're comparing the McGizmo to the Mercedes, at least the Mercedes can do everything the Nissan can. In the case of the SWM, it can go far lower and anywhere in between the settings of the McGizmo's. I'd say that the V10R is more of an do-anything EDC while the McGizmo's are perfect for those whose needs they happen to fit.
I really agree with you though about the perfection of the 007 UI and it's several programmable levels. A combination of the two would make for my dream UI. An upgraded V10R which had 7 or 8 clicks, all of which were programmable, along with a noticeably lower low and high CRI would get my paypal on it's way in a heartbeat!
Ironically, I think at this very moment someone somewhere is posting a thread titled "With a xyz, what would be the practical reason to keep a SWM V10R Ti" in which they ask why anyone would buy a $150 light when a $15 light will do the same thing....
It's all relative. Just something to think about.
It's all relative. Just something to think about.
I have carried my McGizmo Sundrop in my pocket for nearly a year, that's why I bought it. It has been dropped and has a few nicks in it. That's the beauty of Ti.
I would consider it a waste of money if I left it on the shelf (unless I was a collector, which I am not).
Life is too short; great tools are meant to used. That's why, from my perspective, McGizmos are worth their money - each of Don's lights has a purpose and each one is a tool to achieve that purpose.
I would consider it a waste of money if I left it on the shelf (unless I was a collector, which I am not).
Life is too short; great tools are meant to used. That's why, from my perspective, McGizmos are worth their money - each of Don's lights has a purpose and each one is a tool to achieve that purpose.
woodentsick
Enlightened
...For me it's not about features and price point. I just bought my first McGizmo and the reason I bought it is I want to participate in the history of the maker and the light. In general I like to buy things made by someone I "know" as opposed to a giant faceless company. I also like the idea of knowing that person cares about the product they are making and that it's an extension of their values, personality and perspective on the world. When I buy a suit I get it custom tailored (It's cheaper than buying a fancy brand) because I get what I want, I can look the guy in the eye that's making it, shake his hand for a job well done, and be on my way knowing that I just bought something from someone that's passionate about their craft.
Same reason I have a custom fly rod. Same reason I have a custom bike. Same reason I have a custom knife. Sure, they are expensive, but they will also last me a lifetime and are simply a pleasure to use. I smile every time I pull my flyrod out of the bag and see my name, hand lettered just above the grip. I only have one more pointIf I have a problem with anything I've had custom made (assuming the person is still around) I can get in touch with the guy that literally made it and ask him my questions. I can't tell you how much better that makes me feel (even if I never have a problem) than the possibility of talking to a robot about what department I want to contact and what the wait time will be. That makes me mad just thinking about it. Hmm, I think I just talked myself into one of Saltyri's two tone lights.
That is one of the best explanations for custom vs mass produced that I've ever heard, thank you!
I think there are two perspectives on this...and if you'll forgive me for disagreeing: to me, not EDCing a $500 custom light is like buying a Ferrari and letting it sit in the garage
I would assume all the custom builders make lights that are meant to be used for what they were intended. I can also feel the custom builders squirming in their seats regarding the "why" question.
For me it's not about features and price point. I just bought my first McGizmo and the reason I bought it is I want to participate in the history of the maker and the light. In general I like to buy things made by someone I "know" as opposed to a giant faceless company. I also like the idea of knowing that person cares about the product they are making and that it's an extension of their values, personality and perspective on the world. When I buy a suit I get it custom tailored (It's cheaper than buying a fancy brand) because I get what I want, I can look the guy in the eye that's making it, shake his hand for a job well done, and be on my way knowing that I just bought something from someone that's passionate about their craft.
Same reason I have a custom fly rod. Same reason I have a custom bike. Same reason I have a custom knife. Sure, they are expensive, but they will also last me a lifetime and are simply a pleasure to use. I smile every time I pull my flyrod out of the bag and see my name, hand lettered just above the grip. I only have one more point
But what if the guy who made it two months ago died last week in an accident and his wife has no idea how to fix the problem? I understand that there are many reasons behind wanting something custom but the above answer doesn't explain any real practical reasons. I think I 'd rather have a company behind the product than just one person because companies usually have proceedures in place to fix things. It seems too often great products that are left in the hands of one person die with that one person. I'm looking for practical reasons.
archer6817j
Enlightened
Loud and clear! I like custom lights because of reasons other than practical If you draw the line at practical then I think you are right about going with mass produced, especially in terms of price.
If you draw the line at practical then I think you are right about going with mass produced, especially in terms of price.Z-Tab
Enlightened
If you want to buy from a company that will be around in five years, Sunwayman is not a great bet. I would wager that a lifetime warranty from any company besides Surefire cannot be relied on any more than the guarantees of custom builders on here.
kaichu dento
Flashaholic
I tell you what - for $15 I want one of them XYZ lights! (I'm still keeping the V10R Ti though...)
You know what I mean Pete :nana:
My point is that these sorts of threads are silly. There will always be a cheaper light and people will naturally want to buy it and say that it is just as good as the more expensive one. It is the same as the "why buy an expensive SF when (insert foreign light maker) is brighter and cheaper?" threads we see all the time. Uhh, because for some people certain lights have certain traits that please them, whatever those may be, and they are willing to pay for them. Maybe it is as good for some, maybe it isn't for others. For them, the McG or SPY, or the whatever is better suited, for others the Maglite or Fenix or Nitecore is. And that's the end of it.
Why does it have to be brought up every time? Why do people feel the need to justify their buying habits, whether for expensive customs or bargain lights? Get what YOU like. If McGs are no longer for you Dadof6, then sell them off and get other lights. That is your right just the same as it is someone's right to collect customs. If you need someone to convince you that you should buy or keep your customs, then I would agree with earlier posts and just say they are not for you.
It's never been said better than this:
You don't buy the McG because of the fancy UI, you buy it for the feeling you get when you use it.
nbp I understand quality, I understand the feeling of holding quality. This thread was not meant to be silly, it was meant as a serious question because I have hefted the V10 and believe it is of high quality. In fact its quality is so good it causes me to question the practicality of of a McGizmo. I believe that sometimes people spend a lot of money on lights and feel that therefore that light is somehow superior simply because of the money spent on the light. I don't want to be one of those guys. My question is all about practicality for me.
kaichu dento
Flashaholic
Yeah, I guess I did know what you meant, but still couldn't help but want that XYX anyway!
I remember seeing that Paulr quote ages ago and you're right about it's perfection in making an ironically sobering statement about how we choose our lights. I definitely don't buy my lights by their price point, popularity or maximum output, but rather by their appropriateness for my usage patterns and carrying habits.
I have the V10R Ti, Ti PD-S and a Ti PD-S Mizer. The beam on the Ti PD-S is a better beam in both tint and quality partly because of the custom reflector Don used. I don't hesitate having the McGizmos go under water because of the superior sealing. They are also pretty much bulletproof with a simple mechanical switching mechanism. That being said the V10R Ti is a very nice light for the money. The Bitz Ti is also another very nice light.
I didn't say they are similar in build quality, I said the build quality on the Sunwayman was high quality. This thread is once again about practicality. Dan FO made some great practical points about the upside of the McGizmos being their ability to go under water, beam quality and, once again, the switch. Good job Dan, way to stay on topic.
JWRitchie76
Flashlight Enthusiast
Much can be said about any higher end light ($100+) really. I mean other than Ti what now is the practical point of buying a Ti V10R when you can buy a Peak Logan with QTC body for a 1/3 the price? I mean really for about 95% of us there is no practical reason to spend what we do on most of the lights in our collections. Me included and I actually use every one of my lights in a professional environment. Practically speaking though I only need the Logan and Malkoff and I'd be GTG for everything I need in a light.
AaronG
Enlightened
It seems kind of ingnorant to assume that a company is no good because it's not surefire.
Surefire makes an excellent product focused on reliability rather than output. That being said there are a lot of excellent products to choose from. To discount someone else because it's not the brand you like seems silly.
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