With a Sunwayman V10R Ti, what would be the practicable reason to keep a McGizmo Ti?

[Z-Tab]

That's not what I meant at all, I was just saying that Surefire is the one company that is almost certain to be around to fulfill their warranty. Many of these other companies are only a year or two old. Will Sunwayman exist in 5 years? I don't know, so relying on their warranty as being more reliable than McGizmo's seems to be the flawed position. He's been building reliable lights for years, just because he's not running a larger scale business is no reason to expect his warranty to be worth less than one from a relatively new company in a gold rush business.

There are so many companies competing for a relatively small market. Not all of them are going to survive. Surefire probably will, solely based on their military contracts. Companies making good products fold every day.

 

[Budman231]

Since when is any Ti light practical ?

People buy them for the pretty factor. Aluminum lights are the standard for many reasons. Ti makes since on fighter jets, not flashlights IMO.

Bud

 

[Beamhead]

Since when is any Ti light practical ?

People buy them for the pretty factor. Aluminum lights are the standard for many reasons. Ti makes since on fighter jets, not flashlights IMO.

Bud

I respectfully disagree with your "since" of the matter , Ti is great for an EDC. I just polished the scratches out of my heavily carried and abused CR2 MiNI and it looks better than new.

 

[Norm]

The way I see it they are both great quality lights, if at some future date your McGizmo fails and the original manufacturer is unable to repair your light (for whatever reason) there are plenty of available parts that can be adapted or used as is to bring your precious light back to life. A McGizmo can always be updated to incorporate the latest tech in LEDs and drivers, I'm sure the same can't be said for the SWM.
PS I have a SWM TI.
Norm

 

[Budman231]

I respectfully disagree with your "since" of the matter , Ti is great for an EDC. I just polished the scratches out of my heavily carried and abused CR2 MiNI and it looks better than new.

Understood, but for the price of most Ti lights, you could buy 2 to 3 times as many aluminium lights with the same guts !!

Think of all that polishing time you would save ..

Cmon... You Ti guys like pretty lights... Don't give me that "I can polish it" stuff..

hahaha (Just having fun with you) :laughing:

Bud

 

[Beamhead]

LOL, it only took a grand total of 5 minutes with my dremel. True Ti is pretty.

 

[nbp]

I like that micro-scratch patina on Ti lights. It says, "hey I get used and I got the scuffs to prove it". I like to think of them as 'love marks'. :kiss:

 

[Zeruel]

Since when is any Ti light practical ?

People buy them for the pretty factor. Aluminum lights are the standard for many reasons. Ti makes since on fighter jets, not flashlights IMO.

Bud

I found these useful points on Russtang's site.
Properties of titanium
- Highest ratio between strength and density of all metallic materials.
- Extreme mechanical and thermal loading capacity.
- Extreme tensile strength - stonger than steel but 42% lighter.
- High corrosion resistance, particularly against oxygen.
- Extremely bio-compatible because of it's tissue compatibility and it's elastic attributes.
- Titanium is inert and therefore completely corrosion resistant.
- It does not react to salt water, sunlight, or any body chemistry.
- Titanium is 100% hypoallergenic.
- Titanium is the preferred material for surgical tools, implants, pacemaker cases and other internal casings.
- It won't react with any part of the body, making it a great choice for even those persons most sensitive to other materials. When a person has an allergic reaction when wearing a pair of gold or silver earrings due to the alloys, it is recommended that they switch over to titanium earrings.
- And unlike silver, Titanium will never tarnish!
- Titanium does not become magnetized.
- Titanium can only be worked with extremely hard tools.
- Titanium has an extremely high melting point of 1800 degrees Celsius.
- Titanium is as strong as steel, but 45% lighter.
- Titanium is 30% more elastic than steel.
- Titanium is resistant to salt water, perspiration and acids.


And from the man himself (McGizmo):
"It's real simple. Ti is the most low maintenance and dependable metal I can use for a flashlight. Its longevity will insure that I will be the one to fall out of love or need before it becomes compromised or no longer able to function for me. I can use and abuse a Ti light hard and put it to bed wet. It may show it over time but then so do I! Titanium is a noble metal on the galvanic scale and further, I am a stickler for all exposed metal to be of the same to insure galvanic corrosion is impeded anyway.

Ti is a fast healing metal and in no time, even after some abrasion, it will sport a protective oxide film. HAIII is a great and durable film on Al but it does not heal or replenish itself; leaving the raw AL to grow a soft oxide. The oxide film on Ti is electrically conductive. The oxide film on Al is not. I recall in one of these "Why Ti and it's just hype" threads a number of years back where I went into my shop and grabbed a stick of Al off the shelf as well as a stick of Ti from the shelf. I used an ohm meter to measure the resistance of I think it was 2' in length. Without scratching the surface of either metal, the Ti had a measureable but low resistance whereas the Al read as an open circuit until I scratched the meter probes through the oxidized surface. As I recall Ti was getting a beating for having a higher electrical resistance than Al."

More discussions here and here on the advantages of titanium over aluminium for flashlights.

It's evident Al has the advantage of light weight, heat conductivity and lower cost, but Titanium is used not just because it's "pretty".

 

[Norm]

This thread seems to have been sidetrack by the old "TI versus Aluminium" argument.
Back to the original topic please.
Norm

 

[easilyled]

Back to the original topic then.

How many McGizmos do you see recalled?

Battery Junction had to recall loads of SWM V10Rs because of flickering. Even after receiving replacements, some of the recipients were not completely satisfied. There are a few that I know that sent them back 3 times.

 

[kaichu dento]

Can't argue with the bullet-proof construction and perfection of execution from McGizmo's lights, but like a couple other expensive lights I've acquired in the MarketPlace, they weren't able to prevent me from sending them back to the threads from whence they came. That was my intention with the V10R Ti as well, but it's personality, so to speak, eliminated the possibility of being sent away and is, even with it's cool tint, sitting in my pocket now, and seeing daily service.

No matter which light anyone in the threads feels is best, they are right - but primarily for themselves, and most certainly not for the ones who like 'the other light' better.

 

[Dadof6]

Just bought my second v10rTi. These things sure are nice.

 

[easilyled]

Just bought my second v10rTi. These things sure are nice.

I obtained my first Ti V10R recently (about a week ago). I have to agree with you that it is a great light and I was lucky enough to score one without any of the bugs reported. (therefore no flickering, no pre-flash, no delay in lighting up and a very low low)

From what I've read though, many people have not been as lucky and there appears to be quite a lot of variation between the V10Rs.

This is not what I've read for those (including myself) with McGizmo lights. 99% + seem to work to the same very high high standard.

The actual bar stock of Titanium is also a different grade to that used in most Chinese lights, which I believe use a softer alloy.

So I think there are very valid reasons for keeping McGizmos for those valuing reliablity, durability and generally bomb-proof dive capable lights.

 

[flashy bazook]

I think the main point is that you get good value for money.

For a custom top-of-the-line maker (Don!), yes, the lights are expensive but you get value for money. The lights tend to increase in value over time.

Or, you can get a cheaper (but still expensive, because of the titanium) light which could be a worse deal in terms of value-for-money.

Or you can get a very cheap light that will do the job (for a while, and possibly suddenly not do the job, when you need it the most) which also is value for money if you realize the downsides.

And then there are actually decent lights (I won't mention the brand...) that are over-priced, for various reasons. I would not consider such lights value for money.

On the preference for a company over an individual, first, look at these companies and you'll realize most come and go very quickly. I was just looking at the reviews at lightreviews.com, which I had not done for several months, and I couldn't believe how many makes of light I couldn't recognize.

Instead, Don's lights are in fact a kind of custom standard. So others also make interchangeable parts (McClicky switch...interchangeable heads, e.g., the Malkoff VME fits the McGizmo Haiku line). So even if he stops supporting his products, for whatever reason, you do have a chance others will step in.

Finally, many can actually afford to buy the top of the line in whatever they are interested in. Even small advantages can seem important. It's hard to argue specifics, each person has their own ideas. It's not just titanium, it's the overall functionality.

The idea of a do-anything go-anywhere light is important, and Don's lights (even though not dive lights) can go under-water, and the titanium will not corrode, which means you can use them under all circumstances. I was impressed by a review (more like a paean, actually) by greenLED, where he indicated how and where he had used one of Don's creations, and that despite incredible stresses the light had not failed even once. Chances are you won't get this kind of testimonial for the Sunwayman.

 

[woodentsick]

Does anyone have a link to greenLED's review of his McGizmo? It sounds interesting!

Thanks in advance,
Woodentsick

 

[Dadof6]

I know that the first batch of the ti rotarys did have some flickering issues but those have been corrected and Sunwayman corrected them and still remains in business. I also understand that the McGizmos are modular and you can upgrade them. The problem with that is that the upgrades are not cheap. So far the better practical things are durability and water resistance. Anything else?

 

[easilyled]

I know that the first batch of the ti rotarys did have some flickering issues but those have been corrected and Sunwayman corrected them and still remains in business. I also understand that the McGizmos are modular and you can upgrade them. The problem with that is that the upgrades are not cheap. So far the better practical things are durability and water resistance. Anything else?

The flickering issues may have been addressed but the other issues still remain for a significant number of purchasers and have been well documented:-

Differing lows from extremely low to not so low
Pre-flash when going from high to low and in other instances
Delay between pressing the switch and lighting up
A significant portion of the rotation not changing the level further ie. high level reached round about half to three-quarters of the rotation.

 

[Dan FO]

A significant portion of the rotation not changing the level further ie. high level reached round about half to three-quarters of the rotation.

I believe that has to do with perceived brightness on the part of the viewer. It is not logarithmic.

 

[archer6817j]

I don't see how you can argue that they are similar in terms of build quality. See here for detailed photos of what I mean. The V10R Ti has good build quality, but nowhere near a McGizmo.

As a machinist I don't know that I'd equate machining marks as a lack of "build" quality. I also don't think that visible machining marks are necessarily a negative. Personally, I like to see the machining marks, but that's personal taste. I mean...it's machined If you see machining marks (on a piece that as been machined) that just means that the part didn't go through secondary finishing operations. The areas you circle in red are from (end) milling operations (as opposed to "side") and that kind of mark is nearly impossible to hide or even finish out intentionally.

To stay on topic, with respect to visible machining marks, they do not affect the function of the light and neither do they indicate a lack of quality or inattention to detail (IMHO)

I'd also like to raise the question of design + engineering of how the light is constructed in the first place. It's easy to look at the things you can see on the outside and interact with via the UI. I only own a PD McG and don't own a Sunwayman of any kind. Anyone care to tear their light down to the component parts and post a pic? I'm thinking of things like number of failure points and thermal management being significant practical factors...and for the most part, invisible to the consumer.

 

[Beamhead]

Anyone care to tear their light down to the component parts and post a pic? I'm thinking of things like number of failure points and thermal management being significant practical factors...and for the most part, invisible to the consumer.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?310269-Sunwayman-V10R-TI-Neutral-XP-G-Mod