Surefire E1B hotspot not centered...normal?

[Dark Light]

Just got an E1B from Batteryjunction today (after 3 weeks of being backordered) and the hotspot isn't a full circle...it kind of looks like a 3/4 moon with un-even spill :sick2:. Im pretty sure this isn't how it is supposed to be. This is my first surefire LED, after owning 2 other of their lights.

I am assuming the e1b is supposed to have a symmetrical circular hotspot? If so do I call surefire now, or send it back and get an exchange from Batteryjunction?

 

[generic808]

This was the same problem they had over 3 years ago! I've been away for that long and I guess they still haven't resolved the issue?

 

[DM51]

That definitely doesn't sound right. My advice would be to contact the dealer and ask for an exchange.

 

[Federal LG]

Is it your first Surefire TIR Optics flashlight?

SF TIR doesn´t have a perfect beam at all. I have a lot of TIR models and they´re all different from Quarks and Zebralights (reflectors) beamshapes, for example. You can´t compare those lights.

Can you see it in real world or just while white wall hunting?

 

[slumber]

After a week of deliberating, I recently returned an LX2 for the same reason. Really loved the beam otherwise, but the brightest part of the hotspot was way off center. I read some threads which left me with the impression that this is a common occurence, so I returned it for a refund rather than an exchange. Used the money to get a my first Clicky! Im still tempted to try another TIR light in the future.

 

[Dark Light]

Dumb Question but what is TIR? This is my first LED from surefire, I have a 6p with malkoff drop in and an A2. Numerous Fenix lights and a Ti Sunwayman with no issues on the hotspot.

 

[slumber]

TIR means Total Internal Reflection. Instead of having a normal cone shaped reflector, it uses an optic to capture and focus the light. Similar to what a magnifying glass does with light. The result is a beam with an intense hotspot, without the need for a large reflector or a large bezel to house it.

 

[Proflash]

Just got an E1B from Batteryjunction today (after 3 weeks of being backordered) and the hotspot isn't a full circle...it kind of looks like a 3/4 moon with un-even spill :sick2:. Im pretty sure this isn't how it is supposed to be. This is my first surefire LED, after owning 2 other of their lights.

I am assuming the e1b is supposed to have a symmetrical circular hotspot? If so do I call surefire now, or send it back and get an exchange from Batteryjunction?

Hi Dark Light,

There is definitely something wrong with your backup. I own an E1B, as does another member of my family, and neither of our lights had this issue. The hotspot and spill on both our lights are nice and symmetrical; however, the spill contains a few rings due to the TIR.

I would suggest contacting your dealer about the defective light, and letting them take care of you.

 

[Size15's]

This isn't the TIR lens SureFire currently uses but it should help explain:

Shelby Chan Photography

 

[Acid87]

Shame awesome little light. Love my Surefires and this one gets a lot of pocket time.

 

[Dark Light]

Thanks everyone. Bat Junction is sending me a return authorization and will exchange it. I love SF lights, but seriously....when this much money is paid it should'nt even be a problem. Sigh.

 

[somber]

It isn't a problem... they're replacing it, aren't they? It would be a problem if they said 'tough luck' and that was that. They're still standing by their product, and like everyone said, this isn't indicative of their products, or normal, to say the least.

 

[Lapetus]

TIR means Total Internal Reflection. Instead of having a normal cone shaped reflector, it uses an optic to capture and focus the light. Similar to what a magnifying glass does with light. The result is a beam with an intense hotspot, without the need for a large reflector or a large bezel to house it.

It also means you have zero spill does it not?

You can't complain about the service and warranty if they change or refund it for you, that is the most they can do.

Is an example of poor quality control though and I can appreciate you being disappointed with that.

 

[somber]

All my TIR lights have little spill but the F04 diffuser is a great addition to have the best of both worlds.

SF is one of those companies that deserves no complaints as far as service or warranty goes. They're absolutely amazing and it is because of their willingness to make sure their customers are satisfied that I continue to purchase their products.

 

[Size15's]

SureFire has evolved it's TIR optic design to produce a 'beam profile' with an ever larger central beam along with sufficient 'spill'. When you design a beam to have a large intense central beam it naturally lends itself more to some illumination tasks rather than others: those requiring longer range illumination rather than those tasks within arms-length.
Therefore there is an amount of 'spill' that is sufficient for these longer range illumination tasks and diverting any more light from the large central beam into the spill is a waste of light.

IMHO reflector beams tend more often to produce more attractive, more aesthetically pleasing beam profiles but they tend to waste light in two important ways:
1) light that the reflector fails to capture and focus into the beam.
2) light that the reflector captures but fails to direct into the part of the beam where is can be most useful.

I find TIR optics are interesting because on the one hand they seem to go against the ideal that a beautifully pure beam is better and yet on the other hand the TIR beam is obviously more practically useful most of the time even though you'd not want to hunt white walls with it. That's my experience fwiw.

 

[Lapetus]

SureFire has evolved it's TIR optic design to produce a 'beam profile' with an ever larger central beam along with sufficient 'spill'. When you design a beam to have a large intense central beam it naturally lends itself more to some illumination tasks rather than others: those requiring longer range illumination rather than those tasks within arms-length.
Therefore there is an amount of 'spill' that is sufficient for these longer range illumination tasks and diverting any more light from the large central beam into the spill is a waste of light.

IMHO reflector beams tend more often to produce more attractive, more aesthetically pleasing beam profiles but they tend to waste light in two important ways:
1) light that the reflector fails to capture and focus into the beam.
2) light that the reflector captures but fails to direct into the part of the beam where is can be most useful.

I find TIR optics are interesting because on the one hand they seem to go against the ideal that a beautifully pure beam is better and yet on the other hand the TIR beam is obviously more practically useful most of the time even though you'd not want to hunt white walls with it. That's my experience fwiw.

I wonder why more manufacturers do not use this type of system it sounds good.

Pretty much all others go with reflectors for some reason.

 

[Size15's]

I wonder why more manufacturers do not use this type of system it sounds good.

Pretty much all others go with reflectors for some reason.

Reflectors are old tech, optics require R&D investment and expertise.
Remember that SureFire worked with SAIC on a DARPA project to develop non-imaging optics for LED illumination tools and has established substantial expertise in the field.
Another example of SureFire pushing the state of the art and having to create proprietary materials (cyclo-olefin polymers) and computer software do achieve what it needs.

 

[Lapetus]

Reflectors are old tech, optics require R&D investment and expertise.
Remember that SureFire worked with SAIC on a DARPA project to develop non-imaging optics for LED illumination tools and has established substantial expertise in the field.
Another example of SureFire pushing the state of the art and having to create proprietary materials (cyclo-olefin polymers) and computer software do achieve what it needs.

So why do Surefire do it if it is harder to do?

Does anyone else use this kind of optic?

 

[Federal LG]

Agreed with Al.

I love SF TIR Optics flashlights! I think it´s beam profile very useful in all situations.

 

[Size15's]

So why do Surefire do it if it is harder to do?

Does anyone else use this kind of optic?

SureFire's TIR optic is far more efficient at capturing light compared to reflectors.
It is far more effective at using the light it captures to form a useful beam.

It does this in a width and length of bezel that reflectors can't match.