SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

[kreisl]

nitecore D4 charger that after charging showed 4.2 volts I have checked on my fluke meter my same test after my sky RC 3000 only shows 4.130 volts

an indirect way of controlling the witnessed voltage drop is by way of changing the termination current. That option, TERMINATION, has a parameter range from {Zero|0.01A|0.02A|…|1C|OFF}, and the lower you set the parameter the less expressed will the voltage drop manifest itself.

in fw 1.04, the Zero parameter will asymptotically approach a super small constant current, practically ~0.00A or even ~0.000A. It has been listed under (k#45).

for now, just set the TERMINATION option to Zero and redo your test. in your old fw version, the charging routine will finish once the charging current has reached 0.008A. with this setting the battery voltage should show ~4.198V on your Fluke DMM or so.

please could you try and let us know your new test result? :tinfoil:

 

[Gauss163]

in fw 1.04, the Zero parameter will asymptotically approach a super small constant current, practically ~0.00A or even ~0.000A. It has been listed under (k#45). for now, just set the TERMINATION option to Zero and redo your test. in your old fw version, the charging routine will finish once the charging current has reached 0.008A.

Worth emphasizing is that you should not do this frequently since it accelerates cell degradation by forcing the cell to be at higher voltages for longer periods. Generally if you wish to maximize the lifetime of your cells you should schedule your charging so to minimize the time they spend at high voltages and high temperatures - both of which accelerate internal parasitic electrochemical reactions.

 

[tjh]

I managed to thread one of the screw holes on the charger - doh.
Anyway, in case anyone else does this (it's easy to do, metal screws, soft plastic case) the fix I used was as follows:

Remove all other screws
Lift case gently and unscrew the screw while lifting the case, it'll then come out.
Screw all the working screws back in CAREFULLY.
Cut up a fine piece of plastic - I used the push-out case of a SIM Card. Cut it into a fine long piece and drop it in the affected hole.
Screw the screw back into the wonky hole. The extra bit of plastic you've dropped in will fill out and the screw will "bite" properly again.

I'm a muppet. But that's how you fix it if you also muppet it up.

 

[chemEJoe]

The extra bit of plastic you've dropped in will fill out and the screw will "bite" properly again.

I'm a muppet. But that's how you fix it if you also muppet it up.

This is a very nice tip, very creative and smart!

 

[TinderBox (UK)]

So as some of you know, I have just ordered one of these baby`s from GearBest for £63 ordered on the 22nd shipped 23rd, free 5 to 10 day delivery supposedly.

Questions so the newest charger`s come with firmware v1.4, is v1.4 available to download or is only v1.3 available at the moment, where do we go to download the latest firmware, the SKYRC website does not show any firmware, do you have to be a member of the development forum or something.

Thanks

John.

 

[tjh]

So as some of you know, I have just ordered one of these baby`s

Questions so the newest charger`s come with firmware v1.4, is v1.4 available to download or is only v1.3 available at the moment, where do we go to download the latest firmware, the SKYRC website does not show any firmware, do you have to be a member of the development forum or something.

Thanks

John.

Most likely it'll come with v1.03.

v1.04 isn't available yet. I suspect (I don't know, am only guessing) that there will be an update to MC_3000_Monitor.exe to support the new firmware update. Because the existing version of MC_Monitor apparently had issues on Windows 7-10 with updating the firmware, causing failures. (These were fixed by SkyRC with a dedicated binary issued to affected customers, it didn't ruin the charger)

Maybe they will just issue a seperate 1.04 update binary.

Anyway, you'll get a v1.03 fan-blowing-upwards charger.

Enjoy.

 

[tjh]

If anyone one has further strong realistic suggestions to be included in the 1.04 release, please shoot. Now is the time. :tinfoil:

Not sure if I'm too late, but here's a few more from me:

1. When the display has had "NO BATTERY" in all slots for 5 minutes, make the screen go into screen saver mode. Either it could turn off fully, or maybe bounce a pixel around or similar. Then it wakes up when a button is pressed or a battery is inserted.
2. When charging, the only graph available on the charger itself is voltage. Why not also current (good for Li-Ion), temp, capacity etc?
3. An option so that button presses don't beep, but so that the charger still beeps on completion/error etc. I want noises for when things are done, but the beeping while pressing buttons gets on my nerves. I know I'm pressing things, damnit!

Cheers.

 

[kreisl]

1. When the display has had "NO BATTERY" in all slots for 5 minutes, make the screen go into screen saver mode. Either it could turn off fully, or maybe bounce a pixel around or similar. Then it wakes up when a button is pressed or a battery is inserted.
2. When charging, the only graph available on the charger itself is voltage. Why not also current (good for Li-Ion), temp, capacity etc?
3. An option so that button presses don't beep, but so that the charger still beeps on completion/error etc. I want noises for when things are done, but the beeping while pressing buttons gets on my nerves.

re 1. i find the screensaver idea fun (and the mc3k philosophy is also about fun!) but there is no way that i would forward it as suggestion at this point. lowest priority. bug fixes and pcls development would rank so much higher.
re 2. you can be sure that the folks already considered other quantities to graph in DDV and i don't want to make them implement something that they're not convinced themselves of, questionable stuff. i am not comfortable with current, capacity, power, energy myself. of the 5 possible temp readings i'd only agree about the SysTemp. also low priority in my books but i'd be happy to see SysTemp graphed in DDV.
re 3. iCharger has a more diversified implementation to control beeping and i don't even understand what they all are, and i actually never cared to read up or test them, and i still don't care about the iCharger 3 options with 8 parameters (total), call me ignorant haha:

Key stroke {ON|OFF}
Buzzer {ON|OFF}
Completion {5×|3min|Always|OFF}

Sky is aware of the above quote, maybe they didn't find it as interesting as other mc3k-related work. Will come in future but not in 1.04

Thanks for your kind suggestions tjh. Needless to say that all of them would be easy to implement, and if they really wanted to, they'd do it in no time. Yet imho more pressing is the improvement of pcls and whatever further bugs we find in 1.04 (and pcls and bluetooth). I've listed your three suggestions and i'll pitch when time has come.

Any fw bugs in 1.03 not listed so far?

 

[tjh]

Yea I'm fine with that.
They were all "nice to have" suggestions - I fully support proper fixes for important things first.

 

[TinderBox (UK)]

The (Key stroke {ON|OFF} and Buzzer {ON|OFF}) Sound like a good idea to me, as a lot of people prefer to disable sounds so as to not disturb others.

John.

Yea I'm fine with that.
They were all "nice to have" suggestions - I fully support proper fixes for important things first.

 

[TinderBox (UK)]

If anybody is looking for an usb power voltage meter, I have two of the white KCX-017 version mentioned in this thread, on one the voltage is slightly out, but there is no way to recalibrate it, but i also have two of the meters in the link below, they are a lot more accurate, you can change the usb mode and calibrate the meter and it`s only about $10

So unless you have a need for the microusb socket of the KCX-017, I recommend the usb meter below as it is the best bang for the buck.

"OLED USB 3.0 Charger Capacity power Current Voltage Detector Tester Meter Mobile"

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171927124...49&var=470835760531&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

John.

 

[kreisl]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

I figured out that Average in SOV is being computed as the quotient of energy and capacity. Discharging an old Samsung ICR18650-32A at -1.00A from 4.35V to 2.75V resulted in "Average: 3.700V" on the LCD lol.

Actually i was wrong with the "I figured out". Errare humano est.

Today I am testing 10180's with dex, and cross-checking the value of Average gives that it is exactly the quotient of the voltage sum (at 1Hz dex sampling rate) and the LCD routine time (Time, not Total, converted to seconds). Mathematically speaking, it is the dt time integral of the voltage(t), divided by the time integral of dt itself, i.e. with the ident weighting function W=1=const., which is in the end nothing but the elapsed routine time t, very banal. In my text that's the most primitive but also a fully correct and acceptable way of defining an "average" physical quantity, here the "average voltage".

Of course it's a hypothetical/virtual/calculated quantity and has imo no practical meaning. An "average voltage" could be defined in many different (and still logical) ways, e.g. as the quotient of accumulated energy and accumulated capacity up to that point t, or with a non-ident weighting function W=W(t) under the integral, for example current, capacity, power, energy, anything(t).

When the maker revises the manual —fw 1.04 would warrant an updated manual imho—, i'll ask them to include the above as explanation of what Average in SOV means.

 

[TinderBox (UK)]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

Does anybody know of a brand of permanent marker that won't rub off, I mark the capacity of my cells, I have 3 different brands of permanent maker and they all just rub off just with my hands when i pick up the cells

Thanks

John.

 

[copter74]

Hello

Ok i understand more, so that's okay, thank you.
I hope Skyrc will give us the rights to make the update.
...and what and the latest version ?

For nimh battery LSD 2300mA i put 1 / 5C is 0.46A but the internal resistance is low (75 mHom) and the detection even at 1 mV does not correctly detects the end of load, I'm disappointed.
I'll try with 1/3 C 760 mA and 1 mV.
Do you have this problem with LSD?

I am also noticed this :/ so I had to increase the charging current and terrmination set to 1mV. My other charger is also have -dV termination and it working normaly with 200mA current on 2400 AA.
I know that on the NiMH battery at low flows are difficult to detect a drop. But why another cheaper ($ 35) charger normally works?

What's your other charger?
How do you know it's terminating using -dV at such a low charge rate?

I thought it was common knowledge that you don't get a -dV signal when charging below ~0.4C

Hello,

Personally I am very disappointed with this charger while yet he was very impresive.
This charger for my case is a battery killer.
Not only this charger is expensive but the delta peak works when he feels like it.

I made twenty test.
I own 40 batteries which are new (2300 mA LSD NiMH) and a lot of other batteries.
By loading a 700mA or 1000mA (delta peak is 1 mV) the detection is sometimes yes and sometimes no. (random)
I tried on batteries (NiCd 800mA) Charging at 160 mA and a 15mV delta peak charger never stops.
Forced to use the timer or cut capacity.
I tried on a BC-700 Lacrosse $ 30 and never any problem of detection!

I am only one with this problem ?
I hope an update will solve this problem!

Here are 800mA Ni-CD (charge: 160mA and 15mV Delta Peak)
Once loaded I was 0.1A discharge and have a capacity 760 mA, exactly the same as if I load with the timer for 5 hours at 160 mA

This is not normal ?

 

[Minimoog]

15mV delta peak? Seems very high - surely 2-3mV would be better?

 

[kreisl]

Here are 800mA Ni-CD (charge: 160mA and 15mV Delta Peak)

you mean 800mAh Ni-CD?

160/800 = 0.2C , isn't that kinda low? :thinking:

15mV Delta Peak, why so high?

bc700 offers 200, 500 and 700mA charging rates. which rate do you use with the bc700?

do you have a manufacturer's PDF-datasheet for your Ni-CD batteries?

did you read the fine manual? the MC3000 instruction manual?

i have old and new NiMH batteries, LSD and not, and with the default settings 0.5C/3mV i don't get missed terminations. with 0dV the charger terminates even earlier, if you prefer that.

sure, with the BC700 you don't need to play with advanced settings like Delta Peak. and the BC700 costs only 30$.

but honestly speaking i have more fun with the MC3000.

 

[billcushman]

copter74, your problem is the result of your unsuitable settings. For an easy solution I suggest that you select the Eneloop StdAA program and don't change any parameters. It should work perfectly.

 

[DeeFff]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

Does anybody know of a brand of permanent marker that won't rub off, I mark the capacity of my cells, I have 3 different brands of permanent maker and they all just rub off just with my hands when i pick up the cells

I have tried many different permanent markers on my batteries over the years, only to find none of them permanent, so I don't have a direct answer to your dilemma. But a Brother P-touch labeler does the trick quite nicely:

It's more legible than my iffy handwriting, thin enough to not cause problems in any of my lights, and is removable if needed.

HTH

 

[copter74]

Thank you

No I have no problem with the parameters or the manual for the MC3000 I confess to not having read lol
I work in electronics and computer science for 25 year.
I bought LSD for their benefits.
At first I thought their low internal resistance would pose problems for the detection of Delta peak so I increased the load up to 1A and always the same.
Usually I charge my Ni-MH / Ni-CD on other chargers but I need another.
Lately we loaned me a charger bc-700, it was expected that I buy this one but I'm a geek lol
I always loaded all my my Ni-Cd and NiMH 15 mV and 3 mV between 7mV on many different chargers (I make modelisme) and never any problem of detection, even by charging 80 mA 0.1C my Ni-CD

The screenshot is for Ni-CD 800mA ...
Why do you find it high 15 mV for Ni-CD?

The BC-700 I loaded closer to what is recommended for my batteries.
NiMH LSD 2300 mA => 460mA / 7h (therefore 500mA on BC-700)
NiCd 800 mA => 160mA / 7h (so 200 mA on 700-BC)

The detection on all my other chargers is effective .... I own Power LAB 8 Graupner ULTRAMAT, etc ....
On the same MC3000 to increase the load to heat the battery to increase the internal resistance for improved website detection does not change anything that is still haphazard.
I must on the MC3000 activated the safety timer and ability, I ca not find normal for a charger at this price and also evolved.

I launched a test by loading the NICD 800mA (Dv on 7mV and load 160mA) without security ... I watch the curve :-/
I'll try the Eneloop AA std fashion but I find the detection really very insensitive and unrealistic ..
If you do not have problem when I fell on the wrong charger.

My FW version is 1.02
My HW version is 1.04

 

[kreisl]

Thank you

No I have no problem with the parameters or the manual for the MC3000 I confess to not having read lol
I work in electronics and computer science for 25 year.
I bought LSD for their benefits.
At first I thought their low internal resistance would pose problems for the detection of Delta peak so I increased the load up to 1A and always the same.
Usually I charge my Ni-MH / Ni-CD on other chargers but I need another.
Lately we loaned me a charger bc-700, it was expected that I buy this one but I'm a geek lol
I always loaded all my my Ni-Cd and NiMH 15 mV and 3 mV between 7mV on many different chargers (I make modelisme) and never any problem of detection, even by charging 80 mA 0.1C my Ni-CD

The screenshot is for Ni-CD 800mA ...
Why do you find it high 15 mV for Ni-CD?

The BC-700 I loaded closer to what is recommended for my batteries.
NiMH LSD 2300 mA => 460mA / 7h (therefore 500mA on BC-700)
NiCd 800 mA => 160mA / 7h (so 200 mA on 700-BC)

The detection on all my other chargers is effective .... I own Power LAB 8 Graupner ULTRAMAT, etc ....
On the same MC3000 to increase the load to heat the battery to increase the internal resistance for improved website detection does not change anything that is still haphazard.
I must on the MC3000 activated the safety timer and ability, I ca not find normal for a charger at this price and also evolved.

I launched a test by loading the NICD 800mA (Dv on 7mV and load 160mA) without security ... I watch the curve :-/
If you do not have problem when I fell on the wrong charger.
My FW version is 1.02
My HW version is 1.04

i don't understand a word of coherence here, sorry.
i am giving up.
sorry but i am no native English speaker so i don't understand the text perfectly well.
let us know which paragraph of the instruction manual you don't understand clearly and we'll try to rephrase.