Which 600+ lumen flashlight to get?

hazna said:

Size of the flashlight isn't a very big factor in my decision, as they're all too big for EDC. I think my major deciding factors are build quality/reliability, cost and user interface.

I don't know why, but I don't really like the appearnce of all those lights with the big head but relatively thin body (tiablo, jetbeam, solarforce). Doesn't look balanced/symmetrical.

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+1 -- fortunately I don't care much about looks, but all else being equal, I do prefer the looks of straight-body or slightly larger heads -- for big reflectors, that means the 2- and 3-wide 18650 lights. The Eagletacs look nice, but I think my favorite is the Legion II, which I am 90% certain I'll buy once the cheaper version starts shipping (and I see a review or two).

But if you do want killer output (but not killer throw) in a straight EDCable body, download and Sabrewolf have made some really nice MC-E and P7 lights. Unfortunately, since these are batch-customs, neither of them happens to be taking orders ATM. So I'm stuck impatiently waiting for sabrewolf to wrap up this batch and open orders on a second run. It sounds like download will be taking orders for a new run soonish, though.


Ryan: A POB is a Power On Board spotlight, 35W HID -- Sam's Club had a bunch of these (many with dead SLA batteries), and dumped them via online auctions and dirt-cheap clearance prices, so they've become a standard entry-level HID. They blow practically any LED flashlight away.

This is a really nice light. In fact its looks too purteeeee to EDC:twothumbs

From my experience with P7's with high current and IMR 16340 cells I think eventhough on paper it should make say 600 to 900 lumens. With a small hosts like that you would be lucky if you got 400 lumens out the front.

My Malkoff MC-E direct Drive in a Surefire 6P bored and IMR 18650 was thought to make 1000 plus lumens based on the High current of 3 to 4.5amps, but no it didn't even come close to 500 out the front as tested by MrGman.

Now my Maglight P7 DD with heavy duty heatsinking and 3 NiMH cells hit past the 800 lumens out the front, but not very EDC able.

Whether your light gives you 300 or 700 out the front doesn't take anything away from its form factor and it is still tons of light and more than most will ever need from an EDC that small.

I wish someone would volunteer their tiny P7 lights made by the greatest like milky for some real testing by MrGman. I still see many single cell IMR 16340's that claim 600 plus out the front. I have drooled over the many milky creations, but still have not seen anyone volunteer their custom P7/MC-E lights for true lumen readings not just paper specs. Having said that I think if any of these tiny P7 lights will make over 500 out the front lumens it will likely be one of the custom ones by Milky or the others in the Custom section.

bigchelis

matrixshaman said:

Careful out there in Cali ...

This one is 3.25" long by 1" diameter and 600 + Lumens with an IMR 16340 (current draw 2.7 Amps) and with a 17670 tube it will be about an inch or so longer and will likely do 700 to 800 plus Lumens with it's high setting drawing 3.1 amps current. This particular emitter is said to do 800 to 900 Lumens at 2.8 Amps. So yes my 600 + lumen flashlight is very EDC'able. Host is an HDS military version U60 which is to say it's essentially a Novatac body with different electronics and a DSWOI P7 emitter. Custom by darkzero - I'm sure he could build you something similar if you want it EDC'able.

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Readings I have taken in the new 16 inch integration sphere system. These are not 100% accurate but I would say no worse than 7% in either direction and for all these "white" lights compared to each other, I believe they show the true nature of what's brighter than what regardless of beam patterns.
Make/Model/ glass/etc.____________________Lumens, On time__,
Malkoff MC-E,Solar, AR Glass_________________________490.7,____0 sec_______,
Malkoff MC-E,Solar, AR Glass_________________________453.7,___60 sec_______,
Malkoff MC-E_W,Solar, AR Glass______________________416.7,____0 sec_______,
Malkoff MC-E_W,Solar, AR Glass______________________400.0,___60 sec_______,
Malkoff MC-E_W,Solar, AR Glass______________________392.6,__120 sec_______,
Nailbender P7,SF 6P AR Glass2 CR123 Pri______________446.3,____0 sec_______,
Nailbender P7,SF 6P AR Glass1X18650_________________356.7,____0 sec_______,
Nailbender P7,SF 6P AR Glass3.0VDC___________________66.1,___0 sec_______,
Nailbender P7,SF 6P AR Glass4.75VDC________________688.9,___0 sec__overdriven,
Nailbender P7,1D Mag, !MR 18650,_____________________703.7,___0 sec_______,
Nailbender P7,1D Mag, !MR 18650,_____________________633.3,__30 sec_______,
Nailbender P7,1D Mag, !MR 18650,_____________________614.8,__60 sec_______,
Nailbender P7,1D Mag, !MR 18650,_____________________605.6,__90 sec_______,
Nailbender P7,1D Mag, !MR 18650,_____________________598.1,_120 sec_______,
Nailbender P7,1D Mag, !MR 18650,_____________________587.0,_180 sec_______,
Nailbender P7,2D mag, 3C NiMH Tnrg___________________870.4,___0 sec_______,
Nailbender P7,2D mag, 3C NiMH Tnrg___________________735.2,__30 sec_______,
Nailbender P7,2D mag, 3C NiMH Tnrg___________________718.5,__60 sec_______,
Nailbender P7,2D mag, 3C NiMH Tnrg___________________707.4,__90 sec_______,
Nailbender P7,2D mag, 3C NiMH Tnrg___________________698.1,_120 sec_______,
Nailbender P7,2D mag, 3C NiMH Tnrg___________________685.2,_180 sec_______,
Nail_B Cree XR-E R2,1D Mag, 1XIMR18650Aspheric_______167.0,___0 sec_______,
Nail_B Cree XR-E R2,1D Mag, 1XIMR18650Aspheric_______124.8,__30 sec_______,
Nail_B Cree XR-E R2,1D Mag, 1XIMR18650Aspheric_______124.3,__60 sec_______,
Nail_B Cree XR-E R2,1D Mag, 1XIMR18650Reflector_______232.8,___0 sec_______,
Nail_B Cree XR-E R2,1D Mag, 1XIMR18650Reflector_______178.9,__30 sec_______,
Nail_B Cree XR-E R2,1D Mag, 1XIMR18650Reflector_______178.7,__60 sec_______,
SF M6 Host, WA1185 ,3XAW17670 Lith IonIncandescent__835.2,___0 sec_______,
SF M6 Host, WA1185 ,3XAW17670 Lith IonIncandescent__777.8,__30 sec_______,
SF M6 Host, WA1185 ,3XAW17670 Lith IonIncandescent__751.9,__60 sec_______,
Zep-5R2-SF M6 Host,3XAW17670 Lith Ion5 Cree R2's,____855.6,___0 sec_______,
Zep-5R2-SF M6 Host,3XAW17670 Lith Ion5 Cree R2's,____846.3,__30 sec_______,
Zep-5R2-SF M6 Host,3XAW17670 Lith Ion5 Cree R2's,____842.6,__60 sec_______,
Zep-5R2-SF M6 Host,3XAW17670 Lith Ion5 Cree R2's,____838.9,_120 sec_______,
Malkoff M30,Solarforce, AR Glass_______________________227.6,___0 sec_______,
Malkoff M30,Solarforce, AR Glass_______________________217.4,__30 sec_______,
Malkoff M30,Solarforce, AR Glass_______________________214.8,__60 sec_______,
Malkoff M60 BC's,MD2 no glass,________________________212.4,___0 sec_______,
Malkoff M60 BC's,MD2 no glass,________________________193.9,__60 sec_______,
Malkoff M60 BC's,SF NO BZL,__________________________231.3,___0 sec_______,
Malkoff M60 BC's,SF NO BZL,__________________________217.4,__30 sec_______,
Malkoff M60 BC's,SF AR glass,_________________________216.9,___0 sec_______,
Malkoff M60 BC's,SF AR glass,_________________________202.6,__30 sec_______,
Malkoff Single for Mag,3 C cell Maglight,__________________203.7,___0 sec_______,
Malkoff Single for Mag,3 C cell Maglight,__________________177.2,__60 sec_______,
Malkoff Triple Drop,Maglight AR glass,____________________674.1,___0 sec_______,
Malkoff Triple Drop,Maglight AR glass,____________________605.6,__30 sec_______,
Malkoff Triple Drop,Maglight AR glass,____________________581.5,__60 sec_______,
Malkoff Triple Drop,Maglight AR glass,____________________568.5,__90 sec_______,
Malkoff Triple Drop,Maglight AR glass,____________________557.4,_120 sec_______,
Malkoff Triple Drop,Maglight AR glass,____________________550.0,_150 sec_______,
Malkoff Triple Drop,Maglight AR glass,____________________540.7,_180 sec_______,
Solarforce L900M_HIGH_______________________________670.4,___0 sec_______,
Solarforce L900M_HIGH_______________________________581.5,__30 sec_______,
Solarforce L900M_HIGH_______________________________572.2,__60 sec_______,
Solarforce L900M_HIGH_______________________________561.1,_120 sec_______,
Solarforce L900M_HIGH_______________________________553.7,_180 sec_______,
Solarforce L900M_Low________________________________358.0,___0 sec_______,
Solarforce L900M_Low________________________________343.5,__30 sec_______,

I've updated the chart from page 1. It now includes the RX-1 MC-E, 'bins' are being listed under the emitters. And the Raptor has been removed as it is not a high power or quad emitter light.




And based on the above post by MrGman...here are the high power LED lights at their 3 minute mark:


Edit: The charts above now contain weights WITH batteries, since that is the weight we all care about...and I've removed the M2X. For criteria of why these lights are compiled this way, see this post.

And to put things in perspective concerning the drop in output because of the heat of the emitter....the Solarforce L900M which is regulated had a 17% drop in output in 3 minutes, while the Sunlite 16w, which is not regulated, had a 2.5% drop in output in 6 minutes. (per Sunlites IS measuring) This is simply good evidence at how well good heatsinking plays a part in a lights extended output.

Edit: Added the Lumapower MVP...

The Solarforce uses 2XAW18650 as recommended in the Lighthound website. They were of course freshly charged.

the Malkoff Triple uses 3 Cree XR-E Q5's per conversation with Gene a while back. the batteries are the Tenergy 5 ampere hour rated C cells, 4 total.

Obviously I would like to test all of the other lights on your list in the same system for direct reference now that I have it but I can certainly say I have no intention of buying them just for the sake of testing. People want to send them to me, send me a private message, we can get them all done and put them all in this chart.

Thanks Ryan, May want to publish the 1 minute mark as well. or use the 2 minute mark that some people have set as the "warm up" standard time wait already on previous threads. Just a thought. That's why I tried to cover the bases. G.

Ryan,

Here is the link for ZED's Surefire M6 drop-ins readily available.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/228982

My ZED M6 5R2 drop-in made 800 plus after 3 minutes with MrGmans test.

thats a great chart ryanrpm! Would be good if it also had the rough cost of the flashlights too

Ryanrpm said:

There are several review threads which compare some of these high output lights. May I ask what your other intended use would be for one other than one that has 'powerful lumens'?

Here is a list of basically what is currently out there:

Some info is missing...but most of it is there. These all have their good points and bad points.

Edit....just noticed I don't have the RX-1 on there.....and I have the Raptor included, which is not technically a 'high-output' light.

Edit: I've updated some info and added the RX-1 MC-E. Also removed the Raptor.

Click to expand...

Dont forget the lumapower P7 light. MVP turboforce or something like that. Its been out for a while too.

Great graph Ryan :thumbsup::thumbsup: - only problem is you have opened a can of worms - as in all these high powered lights will pop up and will have to be added :thumbsup:
you might have to stipulate multi die (as in P7/MC-E) lights only as the list will get too big too quick (but that would mean canning the M2X)
I say because you will have to add the Lumapower MVP TurboForce P7 and the Lumapower MVP 3xCree also - then I could suggest the WiseLed 1500(1800lumens) and the WiseLed Street(780lumens) - then you have the Wolfeyes Storm/Thunder and superstorm - and I can think of a bunch more if you want :nana: - just a thought 4 u

edit: do your rules allow optics too - coz if they do then you can go back to a single Cree with optics that will have a higher LUX/throw ie: Tiablo A9 with optics - and I have a DEFT - see a can of worms :kiss:

Just received Twitter from Fenixlight. TK40 just received a review from Blue Sheepdog. Very interesting review. I wonder how many 600+ lumens flashlight can take the same abuse. Blue Sheepdog review link:

http://www.bluesheepdog.com/2009/05/05/fenix-tk40-flashlight-review/

Just received Twitter from Fenixlight. TK40 just received a review from Blue Sheepdog. Very interesting review. I wonder how many 600+ lumens flashlight can take the same abuse. Blue Sheepdog review link:

http://www.bluesheepdog.com/2009/05/...hlight-review/


http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=2946355

Wow these things dim a LOT after a little warm up.

Nail_B Cree XR-E R2,1D Mag, 1XIMR18650Reflector_______232.8,___0 sec_______,
Nail_B Cree XR-E R2,1D Mag, 1XIMR18650Reflector_______178.7,__60 sec_______,

After just 60 seconds the Nail-B R2 drops output by 23%... and thats in a BIG host with sufficient thermal cooling. What current is the R2 driven with in this light?

Is this just a characteristic of the R2 BIN, or do all Q-BINS dip this significantly when driven hard?

Would a Q-BIN XR-E exhibit a more stable output?
Would an MC-E in this light, driven with the same current exhibit a more stable output?

kramer5150 said:

Wow these things dim a LOT after a little warm up.

Nail_B Cree XR-E R2,1D Mag, 1XIMR18650Reflector_______232.8,___0 sec_______,
Nail_B Cree XR-E R2,1D Mag, 1XIMR18650Reflector_______178.7,__60 sec_______,

After just 60 seconds the Nail-B R2 drops output by 23%... and thats in a BIG host with sufficient thermal cooling. What current is the R2 driven with in this light?

Is this just a characteristic of the R2 BIN, or do all Q-BINS dip this significantly when driven hard?

Would a Q-BIN XR-E exhibit a more stable output?
Would an MC-E in this light, driven with the same current exhibit a more stable output?

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I think the rapid lost in Lumens was due to overdriving the LED at 1.4amps. I sent it back to Nailbender to put a 1A driver. He said its ready to be sent back to me. IMHO at 1A; I will see less of a drop and I will get more lumens. I think I will get close to 245 out the front in the same sphere done by MrGman.:candle::candle::candle::candle::candle:

MrGman, cant thank you enough for lending your help and equipment in getting these readings.

I found a pretty good video giving an overview of the Fenix, Olight and Jetbeam models, hopefully it is helpful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlQ7vzXqz4A

M2 all flavors looks sweet

bigchelis said:

I think the rapid lost in Lumens was due to overdriving the LED at 1.4amps. I sent it back to Nailbender to put a 1A driver. He said its ready to be sent back to me. IMHO at 1A; I will see less of a drop and I will get more lumens. I think I will get close to 245 out the front in the same sphere done by MrGman.:candle::candle::candle::candle::candle:

MrGman, cant thank you enough for lending your help and equipment in getting these readings.

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Send more pizza!.

I think the main reason for the drop in output with any of these modules like this is because there is not enough heatsinking into a P60 or D26 type module for any P7 or MC-E and that the Maglight units also don't get enough heatsinking connection out to the casing of the maglight head.

More power into a small LED chip means much better heatsinking is required plain and simple. Pumping 10 to 15 watts of power into LEDs requires thermally conductive mass to handle that power. When phosphors heat up they lose efficiency as so there will always be that initial drop but it should stabilize if the unit is passing the heat out to a much larger mass. If there is a resistance to that pass you will see a continued drop. That big 5 R2 unit that goes into the M6 and had 5 separate dice spread out in the head was much better at holding the output level high mostly because of that better spreading out of the heat into the heatsink that having it all concentrated in one small area and trying to get it out from that cental point through a thermal resistance.

I don't think its actually because of the chip type R2 versus Q 5 or bin as much as, the chip being given the lowest possible thermal resistive path to a big block of Aluminum heatsink mass.

So far the Legion II is the best example of this but its a dedicated flashlight, not a drop in to a mag or a 6P type host.

Ainsley said:

I found a pretty good video giving an overview of the Fenix, Olight and Jetbeam models, hopefully it is helpful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlQ7vzXqz4A

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screenshots from that good video

M30


M1X


TK40

I tried both Fenix TK40 and Olight M30, I would strong recommend Olight M30 for these two.

I got Fenix TK40 and Olight M30 and very happy with both. But in term of durability check out the following review noted by the Fenixlight Twitter -

http://www.bluesheepdog.com/2009/05/05/fenix-tk40-flashlight-review/

Thanks MrGman for all your work. I've always been curious what the output of the P7 Mags I make is.

Have you tried repeating you 3 min. test without recharging the batteries and after a cooling off period? I'm wondering how much of the peak output is from a fresh charge and how much is from temperature.

Visually, I've never noticed much difference in output over time.