Malkoff M60LL On 2x AA

I found it on my shelf.I keep it right next to my MD2

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=193915

Here you go my friend.

gswitter said:

When the M60LL (or any of the M60* drop-ins) drops out of regulation, does the current draw initially increase? Or, is the draw always limited to no more than the draw at the minimum voltage required for regulated output?

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I seem to recall seeing some strange spikes in output from the M60 in BigWaffles' runtime thread after the M60 drops out of regulation. Perhaps this could be related.

That graph is probably near the end of that thread, IIRC. I'm just operating off of recollection, though...:shrug:

LOL -- Thanks!

gswitter said:

It may be a moot point. The voltage from 2x NiMH cells might not be high enough to get much out of a direct-driven XR-E.

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double post

gswitter said:

It may be a moot point. The voltage from 2x NiMH cells might not be high enough to get much out of a direct-driven XR-E.

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ok..... both the m60L and m60LL on the malkoff webpage say they are XR-E's... i'm missing something... i tried NiMHs with my LF. the output looked low or lower than greyshark was getting and when i charged the NiMHs
yesterday it took a loooong time.
i know the draw is different between the LL and LF but should i avoid the use of NiMHs to prevent damaging them?
also, the premis of the thread is using scavenged batteries in an emergency. do these batteries need to be closely matched in remaining voltage? what about missing matching voltage?

GreyShark, thanks for the effort you have put into this venture, it was a lot of work. Looking at how you like to experiment, you deserve to get yourself a lightmeter. It does not have to be a high end calibrated lightmeter, and it would only be used on your lights for comparisons. The lightmeter would also help other CPF'ers really appreciate you work even more. You could use lux measurements at one meter and watch the differences there, or you could do bounce with lightmeter, or make up a lightbox. A lightmeter would cost about as much as maybe your next flashlight and believe me you will have mucho fun with a lightmeter experimenting, and we would really benifit too. Thanks,

Bill

Bill

I have also been conducting a run time test with my 3XAA tube and Malkoff M60LL TOTAL RUN TIME =92 HOURS "AT THE END I WOULD SAY 1-2 LM I figured the output based on a comparative i made with my HDS set at level 9= 1.3 LM.It is nice to know that in a pinch this setup would get me out of trouble if all i had were some plain everyday alkaline.

very impressive, 90+ hours on 3xAA.

He said 92 hrs with 3XAA's, and apparently they are Alkaline's. Interesting.

Bill

etc said:

Let me get this straight:

You can run M60LL for 90+ hours on 2xAA or 20+ hours on 3x123 primaries? (Or slightly less on 2x18500?)

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Ya it will run for 90+ hours on 3XAA! But you have to remember your not getting 80LM.More like 30-40LM And the last 20 hours or so is like 10LM.And yes with Alkaline's.With precharged or energizer91's it will not last anywhere near as long.

With 3x123 primaries you will be getting the full 80+LM for like 12 hours then the tail end kicks in.

It's nice to have the flexibilty to use either AA or 123s.

Why is the runtime reduced with L91s?

Does it stay at higher lumens longer and then just die? Vs. a long tail with Alks?

With Lithium AA's it is running in regulation for awhile and pulling full current from cells. Running direct drive, the voltage of the cells is the limiting factor, and as the cells gradually loose voltage the output slowly drops off. Not exactly EE talk here.

Bill

could the inherently high internal resistance of the alkalines be a factor in them lasting so long?

I figured so. That means with L91s it's getting more lumens for a longer time than with alks.

If you want a long diminishing tail but a sharp drop inititally, use Alks, otherwise use L91s.

etc said:

20+ hours on 3x123 primaries?

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As metlarules pointed out earlier (via a thread hyperlink), BigWaffles has a runtime graph of the M60LL (his 'Runtime Graphs' thread) running in 80-lumen regulation for 18 hours from 2x SF CR123. Interestingly enough, he got something like 13 hours on 3x SF CR123, albeit with something like 2/3 more output IIRC, maybe ~140 lumens? Definitely unanticipated behavior.

Meltdown said:

could the inherently high internal resistance of the alkalines be a factor in them lasting so long?

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Very interesting conclusion, this is sort of like running it through a McC2S resistored tailcap for a lower output level & subsequently longer runtimes.

So putting together information from BigWaffles & GreyShark:

A person could have a 3-cell SF with a Malkoff M60LL, and obtain different outputs/runtimes by switching cells, while gaining maximum flexibility in utilizing different cell chemistries:

• ~40 -> 5 lumens for ~80 hours (+/-) on 2xAA alkaline (per GreyShark)
• ~60 lumens for perhaps ~24 hours on 2xAA Lithium? (untested - total guess on my part)
• 80 lumens for 18 hours on 2x CR 123 + spacer (per BigWaffles)
• ~140 lumens for ~13 hours on 3x CR 123 (per BigWaffles)

The M60LL is turning out to be far more versatile than first thought as data is obtained on CPF. Very very interesting.

this is the BEST thread i have read on CPF! way to go!
thanks for this. this makes my next malkoff purchase a no brainer.

Here is the 6P runtime on M60LL:

http://2814187223498203653-a-180274...9sCvv3Os-IRmP0xNUSSw2of40o-JUaH2wWnE0R6WW2vk=

Here is M60LL in G3 (3 cell version). Indeed, brighter but shorter.

http://2814187223498203653-a-180274...zf4ysRt2CNB7_WTN9Ymrg8a_DSGoiZryCIGdRJfKdWQA=


Looks like in a Surefire 9P or a Leef/FiveMega clone body, with M60LL, I could run the following:

3x123 primaries
2x18500
2xAA in any chemistry: (L91, Alks, Carbon Zinc, NiMH)

Sounds like the M60LL module is even more versatile than Malkoff M30 module. Certainly its longer runtime is more suitable as the ultimate TSHTF drop in. I like my M30, use it in a 3xAA body, but this is impressive.

The M60LL is certainly interesting, particularly in the three CR123 format, or two 17500 and 18500, I would gather. That is about 12 hours flat runtime with the two CR123's and at a higher output than the 80 lumen PL60. Gene does have some very interesting circuits as most buck regulated circuits will not show two distinctly different level outputs, one with 2 CR123's and another with three CR123's that will also still show flat runtimes. The 60LL would be a good candidate for an E series body using the new E series bezel. No heat concerns here. Also, using an E series extender would give you that three cell capability.

Bill

Interpreting the runtime charts, I gather the following:

M60LL with 2x123 primaries is 22% as bright as M60.
This means 52 lumens for 18 hours. It's runtime x lumens = 18*52= 936.

M60LL with 3x123 primaries is 39% as bright as M60.
This means 92 lumens for 13 hours.
It's runtime x lumens number is 1196, more efficient than 2x123 version above. This is not a surprise as M60 is also more efficient on 3x123 than on 2x123.

M60, for comparison, on 3x123 is 235 lumens. (I know the output drops a bit but I am using it as the benchmark for simplicity)
The runtime is only 2.5 hours.
Thus, the runtime * lumens = 587, drastically less efficient than any of the above. Bright yes, but less efficient given the much shorter runtime. Per the entire and longer runtime, M60LL gets out more total lumens than M60.

* Would be interesting to get the runtime/lumens chart for M60LL on 2xAA, both Alks and L91s

* Would be interesting to get the runtime/lumens chart for M60L, on 3x123.

* Would be interesting to get the runtime/lumens chart for M30, on 3xAA (possibly also 2xAA)

thermal guy said:

Ya it will run for 90+ hours on 3XAA! But you have to remember your not getting 80LM.More like 30-40LM And the last 20 hours or so is like 10LM.And yes with Alkaline's.

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Is the output at that point comparable to Gerber Infinity Ultra? Or brighter? I have a hard time visualizing 10 lumens so need a reference standard.