Re: 1,000 Watt Military Short Arc Behemoths
Would love working on those beasts! Handling a lamp might just give me some jelly knees!
Would love working on those beasts! Handling a lamp might just give me some jelly knees!
1,000 Watt Marconi Radar Systems Military Short Arc Searchlights
- Thread starter BVH
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Re: 1,000 Watt Military Short Arc Behemoths
Gosh, you're so responsible Bob! ...and to think, all I do is make sure my fly is zipped up! Okay, well all know that I don't even handle 100 Watt lamps. I'll stick to safer things... like machine guns!
Awesome power supply! Woohoo buddy!
Glad to hear all went well with your surgery. I didn't know you had been dealing with that.
Gosh, you're so responsible Bob! ...and to think, all I do is make sure my fly is zipped up! Okay, well all know that I don't even handle 100 Watt lamps. I'll stick to safer things... like machine guns!
Awesome power supply! Woohoo buddy!
Glad to hear all went well with your surgery. I didn't know you had been dealing with that.
get-lit
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: 1,000 Watt Military Short Arc Behemoths
My sense tells me this is not the issue. Only heat within the IR spectrum can be reflected back. IR is 10% of visible output. Even subsequent IR from the anode would be included in that 10%, because when taking measurements, a spectral meter can not distinguish whether radiation is emitted from the plasma or the anode.
The anode can handle a very large margin of additional heat, much more than the just a moderate amount of light reflecting back to have an affect upon it. Not saying it's impossible, but it would take a large majority of the light, but even that "should" be well within the heat margin of the anode.
Also, if the anode were over-heated hot enough to melt it, the anode seal "should" rupture first.
Lamp makers design the physical structure of the anode specifically to prevent heat pockets within it, and by the looks of the shortcuts taken with the other lamp components, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the anode is just not up to the task.
This is such an odd thing, especially happening with two lamps, I honestly haven't a clue what's actually happened, just putting my thoughts out there.
My sense tells me this is not the issue. Only heat within the IR spectrum can be reflected back. IR is 10% of visible output. Even subsequent IR from the anode would be included in that 10%, because when taking measurements, a spectral meter can not distinguish whether radiation is emitted from the plasma or the anode.
The anode can handle a very large margin of additional heat, much more than the just a moderate amount of light reflecting back to have an affect upon it. Not saying it's impossible, but it would take a large majority of the light, but even that "should" be well within the heat margin of the anode.
Also, if the anode were over-heated hot enough to melt it, the anode seal "should" rupture first.
Lamp makers design the physical structure of the anode specifically to prevent heat pockets within it, and by the looks of the shortcuts taken with the other lamp components, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the anode is just not up to the task.
This is such an odd thing, especially happening with two lamps, I honestly haven't a clue what's actually happened, just putting my thoughts out there.
get-lit
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: 1,000 Watt Military Short Arc Behemoths
BVH, I was catching up on some old reading and came across a post from you in 2007 about the AV/VSS-1 and wanted to make sure you're aware of something that would save you whole ton of lamp life when tinkering around.. You said "I have not run it longer than about 45 seconds because I'm concerned about the fan not running after the bulb is turned off." With each ignition, the lamp needs to be operated to full temp before shutdown, probably at least 90 seconds.
Useful info from the Ziess website.. "After a metal halide discharge lamp has been started, it should be allowed to warm completely to the recommended operating parameters (temperature and pressure) before it is turned off. In many cases the lamps are fully operational after a minute or two, but this value depends upon lamp design and specifications. After ignition, the lamp filler components (mercury, halides, and rare earth elements) vaporize in successive stages, while the lamp voltage, electrical output, and luminous flux gradually increase until they reach steady-state operating conditions. Rare earth elements are the last of the fill gases to evaporate so that metal halide lamps generate a blue-shifted spectral distribution until warm-up is completed. Shutdown is the reverse of startup with the rare earth elements being the first to condense. Premature termination of lamp operation can lead to rapid deterioration of the electrodes and blackening of the inner envelope walls, thus compromising future lamp performance. In effect, if a lamp is accidentally switched off too quickly during the startup phase, the filler components (mercury and rare earth halides) are often deposited on the internal walls of the envelope and on the electrodes. This artifact can be visualized as a dark opaque coating and can adversely affect re-ignition (in rare cases, permanently). In addition, the number of lamp startups has a significant impact on the life span, with more frequent ignitions leading to shorter lifetimes regardless of whether the lamp has been allowed to reach its proper operating temperature on each run before powering down."
I once shut down half way though startup and was left with the darkened glass, which I was lucky to have clear up after several cycles, each taking abnormally long to complete. I'll always be sure to allow at least 90 seconds for full startup.
BVH, I was catching up on some old reading and came across a post from you in 2007 about the AV/VSS-1 and wanted to make sure you're aware of something that would save you whole ton of lamp life when tinkering around.. You said "I have not run it longer than about 45 seconds because I'm concerned about the fan not running after the bulb is turned off." With each ignition, the lamp needs to be operated to full temp before shutdown, probably at least 90 seconds.
Useful info from the Ziess website.. "After a metal halide discharge lamp has been started, it should be allowed to warm completely to the recommended operating parameters (temperature and pressure) before it is turned off. In many cases the lamps are fully operational after a minute or two, but this value depends upon lamp design and specifications. After ignition, the lamp filler components (mercury, halides, and rare earth elements) vaporize in successive stages, while the lamp voltage, electrical output, and luminous flux gradually increase until they reach steady-state operating conditions. Rare earth elements are the last of the fill gases to evaporate so that metal halide lamps generate a blue-shifted spectral distribution until warm-up is completed. Shutdown is the reverse of startup with the rare earth elements being the first to condense. Premature termination of lamp operation can lead to rapid deterioration of the electrodes and blackening of the inner envelope walls, thus compromising future lamp performance. In effect, if a lamp is accidentally switched off too quickly during the startup phase, the filler components (mercury and rare earth halides) are often deposited on the internal walls of the envelope and on the electrodes. This artifact can be visualized as a dark opaque coating and can adversely affect re-ignition (in rare cases, permanently). In addition, the number of lamp startups has a significant impact on the life span, with more frequent ignitions leading to shorter lifetimes regardless of whether the lamp has been allowed to reach its proper operating temperature on each run before powering down."
I once shut down half way though startup and was left with the darkened glass, which I was lucky to have clear up after several cycles, each taking abnormally long to complete. I'll always be sure to allow at least 90 seconds for full startup.
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Re: 1,000 Watt Military Short Arc Behemoths
Thanks for that info Get! I have come to learn this over the years since that post. I even came across some factory-included instructions that come with each General Electric Marc300 Series lamp that instructs the user to run the light a minimum of 3 minutes between ignitions. I'm sure for the reasons you cite above. I would guess pure Xenon would require less time but for a different reason, Cermax wants their lamps run for a minimum of 2 hours the very first time of operation so that the point of arc origination is firmly established to ultimately eliminate or reduce flickering due to arc origination point jumping. They say to try to reduce short run times for the same reason because the high energy strike can repeatedly "cut" new origination points adding to the flickering problem.
Thanks for that info Get! I have come to learn this over the years since that post. I even came across some factory-included instructions that come with each General Electric Marc300 Series lamp that instructs the user to run the light a minimum of 3 minutes between ignitions. I'm sure for the reasons you cite above. I would guess pure Xenon would require less time but for a different reason, Cermax wants their lamps run for a minimum of 2 hours the very first time of operation so that the point of arc origination is firmly established to ultimately eliminate or reduce flickering due to arc origination point jumping. They say to try to reduce short run times for the same reason because the high energy strike can repeatedly "cut" new origination points adding to the flickering problem.
Re: 1,000 Watt Military Short Arc Behemoths
My new Dual "S" Abyss is for sale over at the Marketplace.
My new Dual "S" Abyss is for sale over at the Marketplace.
Re: 1,000 Watt Military Short Arc Behemoths
BVH,
very interesting read, and there is nothing wrong with a shameless plug, as you put it.
A thought that crosses my mind is that marconi as was in leicester is about 30 miles from me, now around 20 miles away is a place called bruntingthorpe, where they have just got a vulcan bomber back to flight, a lot of the workforce on that project were old workers from marconi, as these seem to be aerospace would it not be in your interests to contact them to do a bit of digging? i know a couple of guys involved and will ask some questions but dont hold your breath as there were around 5000 technicians on the project. also in leicester is a place called Brush electrical engineering these had close links as they built some military stuff but mainly developed loco's. also the main offices and factory of General electric were only a spit away, these were all in the same mix in the 90's with military stuff and experimental trains, so someone must know.
BTW nice video, they say a picture is worth a thousand words, and you certainly proved that one. Spike (very impressed).
BVH,
very interesting read, and there is nothing wrong with a shameless plug, as you put it.
A thought that crosses my mind is that marconi as was in leicester is about 30 miles from me, now around 20 miles away is a place called bruntingthorpe, where they have just got a vulcan bomber back to flight, a lot of the workforce on that project were old workers from marconi, as these seem to be aerospace would it not be in your interests to contact them to do a bit of digging? i know a couple of guys involved and will ask some questions but dont hold your breath as there were around 5000 technicians on the project. also in leicester is a place called Brush electrical engineering these had close links as they built some military stuff but mainly developed loco's. also the main offices and factory of General electric were only a spit away, these were all in the same mix in the 90's with military stuff and experimental trains, so someone must know.
BTW nice video, they say a picture is worth a thousand words, and you certainly proved that one. Spike (very impressed).
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Re: 1,000 Watt Military Short Arc Behemoths
That sure sounds like a good possibility to find out some info. I won't hold my breath but one never knows! all it takes is one person to get it going. I'd be happy to carry the ball if you come through with a name and email to get me going. Thanks for you efforts!!
That sure sounds like a good possibility to find out some info. I won't hold my breath but one never knows! all it takes is one person to get it going. I'd be happy to carry the ball if you come through with a name and email to get me going. Thanks for you efforts!!
Re: 1,000 Watt Military Short Arc Behemoths
BVH,
I have been up for the past 4 hours reading up on Marconi and trying to piece together Le McAllister Control Engineers.
What I found on Marconi is very interesting like our British inventor of 4,000,000,000 light.
I still have a lot to search for but it is an idea that they may been fitted for the type of planes listed below.
British NIMROD planes below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Siddeley_Nimrod#cite_ref-neal_120_33-2
The Nimrod could also be fitted with two detachable pylons mounted underneath the wings to be used with missiles such as the Martel;[33] two specialized pylons were later added to enable the equipping of Sidewinder missiles, used for self-defense purposes from hostile aircraft.[35]A powerful remote-controlled searchlight was installed underneath the starboard wing for SAR operations.[33] For reconnaissance missions, a pair of downward-facing cameras suited to low and high-altitude photography were also equipped on the Nimrod; [33] in later years a newer electro-optical camera system was installed for greater imaging quality.[44]
I found the ad for your lights in a British Army site, ARRSE. When they seller was trying to sell them back in July 2012.
http://www.arrse.co.uk/classified-ads/185607-2-x-ex-mod-experimental-prototype-searchlights-45kv-very-powerful-very-rare.html
After reading your first post , I think these may be the ones or similar.
I'll continue later.
S/F,
CEYA!
BVH,
I have been up for the past 4 hours reading up on Marconi and trying to piece together Le McAllister Control Engineers.
What I found on Marconi is very interesting like our British inventor of 4,000,000,000 light.
I still have a lot to search for but it is an idea that they may been fitted for the type of planes listed below.
British NIMROD planes below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Siddeley_Nimrod#cite_ref-neal_120_33-2
The Nimrod could also be fitted with two detachable pylons mounted underneath the wings to be used with missiles such as the Martel;[33] two specialized pylons were later added to enable the equipping of Sidewinder missiles, used for self-defense purposes from hostile aircraft.[35]A powerful remote-controlled searchlight was installed underneath the starboard wing for SAR operations.[33] For reconnaissance missions, a pair of downward-facing cameras suited to low and high-altitude photography were also equipped on the Nimrod; [33] in later years a newer electro-optical camera system was installed for greater imaging quality.[44]
I found the ad for your lights in a British Army site, ARRSE. When they seller was trying to sell them back in July 2012.
http://www.arrse.co.uk/classified-ads/185607-2-x-ex-mod-experimental-prototype-searchlights-45kv-very-powerful-very-rare.html
After reading your first post , I think these may be the ones or similar.
I'll continue later.
S/F,
CEYA!
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Re: 1,000 Watt Military Short Arc Behemoths
Ceya, yes, those are the actual lights I acquired. He had no luck there so moved them to Ebay. Thanks everyone who is contributing to trying to find any history on these. I'm having a hard time seeing these used on aircraft. They use a 1 degree, non-changeable beam which doesn't make a lot of sense for installation on a fast-moving, fixed-wind aircraft.
Ceya, yes, those are the actual lights I acquired. He had no luck there so moved them to Ebay. Thanks everyone who is contributing to trying to find any history on these. I'm having a hard time seeing these used on aircraft. They use a 1 degree, non-changeable beam which doesn't make a lot of sense for installation on a fast-moving, fixed-wind aircraft.
Remember when using for SAR, you are not moving fast at all.
Needing the light to acquire the target. Even with the Recon planes then you are trying to get much information from the pictures.
They were moving fast to get to the target but at a control speed once they were taking pictures.
What is non changeable on the light?
No problem on the research, it is the fun part.
S/F,
CEYA!
Needing the light to acquire the target. Even with the Recon planes then you are trying to get much information from the pictures.
They were moving fast to get to the target but at a control speed once they were taking pictures.
What is non changeable on the light?
No problem on the research, it is the fun part.
S/F,
CEYA!
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There is no focusability of these lights. The beam is fixed at a very narrow 1-2 degree beam, so not so great for SAR. These do not strike me as helicopter lights.
Too heavy and massive. If they were on fixed wing aircraft, an operator would have a very tough time trying to find anything and then keep it in the very small spot.
Too heavy and massive. If they were on fixed wing aircraft, an operator would have a very tough time trying to find anything and then keep it in the very small spot.
For a fixed wing application, where typically, the guns are also fixed...a fixed target light would actually work.
IE: When the light was on the target, the guns are aimed at it.
Similarly, a long range landing light would also be aimed where the plane was going....analogous the pencil beams on a car, etc.
Plan C - The theory that it might have to do with radar or target acquisition jamming somehow...in that the plane, etc, would merely be a test mule, and the lights were to shoot at a test bed/installation for proof of concept.
If you find the emitter has some extra circuitry or other means of modulating the output/frequency or other atypical parameters...that might be a clue.
For example, there are laser range finders for targeting...and if this light were aimed AT the targeting laser's receiver, it might jam it?
IE: When the light was on the target, the guns are aimed at it.
Similarly, a long range landing light would also be aimed where the plane was going....analogous the pencil beams on a car, etc.
Plan C - The theory that it might have to do with radar or target acquisition jamming somehow...in that the plane, etc, would merely be a test mule, and the lights were to shoot at a test bed/installation for proof of concept.
If you find the emitter has some extra circuitry or other means of modulating the output/frequency or other atypical parameters...that might be a clue.
For example, there are laser range finders for targeting...and if this light were aimed AT the targeting laser's receiver, it might jam it?
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You don't need a light to be flooded in military just line of sight to target, for ground tactical rescue to see.
The less flood the better not seen by many.
I can see as a jamming idea since Marconi made his mark in wirless, radar like Telsa and our british friend ( name is not here again).
Maybe light on target during recon picture being taken?
1 to 2 degree of angle movement is small but on the ground its bigger.
S/F,
CEYA!
The less flood the better not seen by many.
I can see as a jamming idea since Marconi made his mark in wirless, radar like Telsa and our british friend ( name is not here again).
Maybe light on target during recon picture being taken?
1 to 2 degree of angle movement is small but on the ground its bigger.
S/F,
CEYA!
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johng.davies
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2014
- Messages
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Re: 1,000 Watt Military Short Arc Behemoths
hi
I used to work fo gec-aei at the leicester blackbird road factory from 1966 and then at the new parks factory from 1968 till 2001.
I lived very close to the blackbird road site and searclights were regularly being tested in the dark evenings, these searchlights were for military vehicles i believe
hi
I used to work fo gec-aei at the leicester blackbird road factory from 1966 and then at the new parks factory from 1968 till 2001.
I lived very close to the blackbird road site and searclights were regularly being tested in the dark evenings, these searchlights were for military vehicles i believe
Re: 1,000 Watt Military Short Arc Behemoths
Thanks johng! Every bit of info is helpful in my quest to get these running again.
Thanks johng! Every bit of info is helpful in my quest to get these running again.
