10440 LiIon in lights not rated for LiIon, pros and cons?

[rdnesh69]

Now that's interesting - any light that I put the electronic tail from the Lumintop Ti Tool on (and use with 10440 li-ion), I immediately lose any other modes except for high mode.

If I change the tail to a clicky on any of these lights (including Lumintop Ti Tool) all three modes are present when using 10440 li-ion.

Can you double confirm this? If accurate, I'd like to hear from others as there must be some variation here.

Ya wow, that's an interesting one. I can confirm.. I have the new titanium lumintop tool with the electronic switch. I am running this light with a 10440 battery with no loss of modes. The light cycles through from medium to low to high with all modes being much brighter than their original selves.

 

[write2dgray]

Does anybody have a theory on that? I'm stumped :shakehead.

 

[jon_slider]

you want these.
… For a simple, safe charger... My personal favorite is the Xtar VP2
… Battery University,
… Electropaedia

Thank you Very Much for the links and mentorship...

possible factors why @write2gdgray and @rdnesh69 TiTool 10440 mode loss experience differs:

Difference in the actual switch hardware.
Difference in clicking speed when operating the switch.
Difference in battery type or charge level (voltage).
Other?

Thank you both for confirming no loss of AAA function after testing 10440 in the TiTool. I have edited my original post, again, to reflect what Im learning from you, with gratitude.

 

[write2dgray]

Good guess (third one) - around 3.8V and below (depends on IR of battery) the e-tail switch begins to work for mine here!

 

[Capolini]

Originally Posted by rdnesh69
a light that doesn't support lithium will likely not have built in voltage protection it could be hazardous to over discharge the battery


^^^^^^^

That is why when I first get a light I do run time/ voltage tests so I know how long the battery can be used safely on max. By doing this I know the incremental break down b/w the run time and voltages! I DO THIS W/ EVERY NEW LIGHT!,,,,,I started doing this with my high powered throwers several years ago so I know when to switch lights! I rarely get below 3.60V. In fact I am so obsessive and efficient doing this that Dozens of times I have guessed the exact[!] voltages of my batteries when I got home!

Getting back to the 10440. I use an EFEST IMR 10440 350mAh. I have been told and believe that IMR's are a SAFER chemistry. On a few occasions I pushed its voltage down to 2.3v and it recovered,,,,,that was for a test,,,,,,,,not something I normally do or recommend!

 

[Capolini]

I would use this dealers batteries! CHEAPER[$3 cheaper for Two of them] THAN EBAY AND HE WILL have customed EFEST BT IMR 10440 very soon!

http://liionwholesale.com/

 

[jon_slider]

I have guessed the exact[!] voltages of my batteries when I got home!

You have become a well calibrated VoltMeter . I lack your experience and may play it safe and start with TrustFire protected 10440, .. not sure yet. fwiw they cutoff at 2.5v afaik

if IMR dim down to 50% by the time they reach 3v, that might be enough for me to learn to be my own battery monitor and go IMR instead of TrustFire..

Can you plug in numbers please, I have lots of questions… Example based on a stock XPG2 Copper Tool rated for 110 lumens on high, which runs for 1 hour to 50% drawdown on an Eneloop Pro.

What is your desired Voltage cutoff for IMR 10440t? 3v?
With IMR 10440, what percent lumen drop happens over how long a runtime, to reach voltage cutoff? 50%
iow, if you turn on the Tool on high with an IMR 10440 putting out what 330? Lumens?
what % of X lumens remains at 3v, e.g. 50% would be 165? lumens?
How long does it take, 20 minutes or so?

sorry if too many unknowns, I may have to buy some batteries soon and figure it out for myself..

thanks for your help

 

[Capolini]

jon slider said:


You have become a well calibrated VoltMeter . I lack your experience and may play it safe and start with TrustFire protected 10440, .. not sure yet. fwiw they cutoff at 2.5v afaik
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Lol!!!I would NOT call using a T'fire 10440 playing it safe!!! The complete opposite in my mind!

I have a voltage meter and common sense,that is about it.

I choose not to get ANY of my L.Ion batteries below 3.50v,as I indicated in an earlier post I have a good idea by doing run time/voltage checks with EVERY new light!

I do not have a tool flashlight! I have Olight I3e/i3s and Ultratac K18 SS/ALUMINUM!

 

[jon_slider]

I have Olight I3e/i3s and Ultratac K18 SS/ALUMINUM!

Thanks for the info, the Ultratac IS rated for LiIon, and uses PWM which is a dealbreaker for me. (added to the PWM list in my sig)
Have you had any AAA light that is not rated for LiIon, fry a boost driver on 10440, such that they no longer work with AAA?

Thanks for highlighting that you use a 3.5v cutoff target. If you put a 10440 in your i3s on high, how much does brightness drop off in % by the time you reach 3.5v? 10%, 50%, 90%? iow is there clearly noticeable dimming that could alert me to change batteries?

As far as your disTrust of the Trusfire protected cell.. any educational links you can share to educate me?

I'd definitely recommend using protected 10440s…

I've had a half dozen Trustfire 10440 protected cells that have seen a good many cycles each, the protection circuits and cells themselves have performed flawlessly.

Low voltage protection is predominantly to keep from damaging the cell, anything below 3.5V (at rest) irreversibly damages most cells to some degree (lower capacity, increased IR).

 

[Capolini]

To each his own,,,so many people warned me about the low quality and FALSE mAh that these "FIRE" type batteries have given.

I stick to quality batteries,,,,SONY,SAMSUNG,PANASONIC, LG ect!

Look at HKJ's tests: OR GOOGLE TRUSTFIRE/ULTRAFIRE explodes!

http://lygte-info.dk/

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Thanks for the info, the Ultratac IS rated for LiIon, and uses PWM which is a dealbreaker for me. (added to the PWM list in my sig)
Have you had any AAA light that is not rated for LiIon, fry a boost driver on 10440, such that they no longer work with AAA?

Thanks for highlighting that you use a 3.5v cutoff target. If you put a 10440 in your i3s on high, how much does brightness drop off in % by the time you reach 3.5v? 10%, 50%, 90%? iow is there clearly noticeable dimming that could alert me to change batteries?

As far as your disTrust of the Trusfire protected cell.. any educational links you can share to educate me?

3.5v is generally about 40% of capacity and there's plenty left in the tank at that point, but voltage is starting to sag and you'll not be running the cell on high current drains as efficiently. Think water pressure decreasing and you only getting a trickle out of the hose.

I never noticed a huge difference between High on my i3s when using an Efest IMR 10440 and an Eneloop, say the way I see a difference in my lipstick SWM V11R and ET D25C Ti. clicky lights with IMR 16340s.

The 10440s don't have a lot of capacity and while they should be brighter, you're not getting all that much runtime. You should get a noticeable step down, if the light hasn't already melted.

The heat penalty just isn't worth it to me, in either my i3s, or L3 L10 AA light, but buy a 10440 and a 14500 and play with them in your other lights, to know for sure.

Now, my Xeno E03 screams on a Sanyo 14500P li-ion. It gets hot, but does a better job mitigating that heat, so the li-ion stays.

Chris

 

[jon_slider]

3.5v is generally about 40% of capacity ... Think water pressure decreasing and you only getting a trickle out of the hose.

I never noticed a huge difference between High on my i3s when using an Efest IMR 10440 and an Eneloop
...
The heat penalty just isn't worth it to me, in either my i3s, or L3 L10 AA light

very helpful and appreciated
I do have an i3s, so the input is relevant

youre also helping me figure out whether a LiIon upgrade for a Copper Tool would address this car repair scenario (or if Id be better off buying an AA light for the car, such as the SC5):

a friend comes over during the day, to work on my car. Its sunny, and my 80 lumen i3s with XPG2 is barely visible, my Copper Maratac rated 138lum, also XPG2, is not much better, and my copper Tool with Nichia 219 is useless for car work in bright daylight.

For the car repair work in daylight, I think 200+ lumens is called for

Ive been eyeing AA lights such as the SC5, was considering the 10440 LiIon option instead.. Maybe in the Tool with Nichia...

decisions..
1. spend 50 bucks on charger and 10440's (I like your hose analogy)
or
2. Buy an AA Light…

hmmm, reading that I just realized, of course, get both! Not OR, do AND

I could use the Tool with 10440 just to spot the places I want to direct his attention, then hand him the SC5

thanks! I feel better now.. this retail therapy thing really works! (My wallet wishes the relief lasted longer, before needing another dose.. LOL)

some info on relative brightness

In addition to alkaline and NiMH batteries, the Astrolux A01 works with a 10440 lithium ion cell too. On a 10440 the output increases to 226 lumens from Eneloop's 87.

projected brightess eneloop and 10440 mode sequence lumens:

Reylight N219	1	16	80
LiIon 2.6x	2.6	42	208
Maratac XPG2	40	1.5	138
LiIon 2.6x	104	4	359

bla bla bla
this thread needs more pictures