Is ROP/Pelican 3854 really 1150 lumens?

[Burnt_Retinas]

Excuse my ignorance of background research done on hotwires, but I just have to ask...

Where does the figure of 1150 bulb lumens for the Pelican 3854 primary bulb used in the ROP mod come from?

I've read what details I had time for here and even the ROP write-up on flashlight reviews, but all I have got to go regarding lumen output for anything using this lamp that was from a source likely to have tested it is the Pelican info for the BigD, which quoted that light at 600/610 lumens when using this bulb in that light. I'm not even clear if it's bulb lumens they quote or output from flashlight.

Is 1150 lumens fabricated upon a wish, or is it fact?

If it is this good, I want one

Thanks,

Chris

 

[Delvance]

The figure, i'm pretty sure comes from an equation. I don't know it myself but a fair few people have worked it out to be about there. I seem to remember someone having a link in their sig to a page that could approximate bulb lumens by inputting volts etc.


Also quite positive the Pelican stated 600lumens is bulb lumens. At it's overdriven ROP config state, a ROP puts out a little bit more than a SF M6 HOLA, which gives about 630 output lumens with fresh batt's.

Far as i can tell, 1150 is roughly about right . JS had actually sent a bulb that was potted into a reflector to be tested in an integrating sphere and after considering lense losses etc, output was determinded to be about 65% of the bulb lumens.

So we have...

0.65 x 1150 = ~747

Keep in mind M6 HOLA fresh is ~630 lumens, and a good ROP has a little more... it sounds good to me lol

 

[cmacclel]

I read that the M6 HOLA is near 1000 lumens on fresh cells and believe it. The M6 is rated at 500 Lumens half way through the burn. My M6 on *Fresh* Cells has pretty much the same output as a ROP HOLA running on 6 CBP1650's. The ROP in a mag host with a Medium Stripple reflector has a much wider side spill with a slightly brighter but smaller hotspot. After a few minutes of runtime the M6 is noticeably dimmer but then stays that way through most of the battery life. Also not the M6 has a bigger reflector


Are was talking out the front lumens or bulb lumens before loss?? The 1150 for the ROP is Bulb lumens before loss.


Mac

The figure, i'm pretty sure comes from an equation. I don't know it myself but a fair few people have worked it out to be about there. I seem to remember someone having a link in their sig to a page that could approximate bulb lumens by inputting volts etc.


Also quite positive the Pelican stated 600lumens is bulb lumens. At it's overdriven ROP config state, a ROP puts out a little bit more than a SF M6 HOLA, which gives about 630 output lumens with fresh batt's.

Far as i can tell, 1150 is roughly about right . JS had actually sent a bulb that was potted into a reflector to be tested in an integrating sphere and after considering lense losses etc, output was determinded to be about 65% of the bulb lumens.

So we have...

0.65 x 1150 = ~747

Keep in mind M6 HOLA fresh is ~630 lumens, and a good ROP has a little more... it sounds good to me lol

 

[Delvance]

Yah, when i said 1150, i meant bulb lumens. I'm not at all surprised the M6 HOLA with fresh batts is near a 1000 lumens . Gorgeous light, i don't own one myself but a workmate brought his in one day, with half depleted batteries. I already built my 2D cbp ROP then but was still positively surprised by the M6 HOLA. Gorgeous beam, but i like my lights throwy...


Burnt_Retinas

I'd say roughly, yes. The bulb lumens of a ROP is 1150. Veterans, please correct me if i'm wrong!

 

[adirondackdestroyer]

cmacclel,

You say you have a 2D ROP running on 1650 batteries. I will be running the same thing on 2500 Energizers and 2600 Amondotech, how much of a difference do you think there will be (in lumens) roughly?

 

[cmacclel]

Modamag figured around 25% increase in brightness using the CBP1650's over the Sanyo / Engergizer / Durecell 2500mah cells. I myself on a fresh charge on each set of batteries measure

High output lamp

CB2500's 4.3 amps
Sanyo 2500's 3.8amps
CBP1650's 4.2amps

The low lamp draws 2.2amps


Thats why my new light utilizes the CBP2500's as the hold great voltage underload and still have good capacity.

 

[adirondackdestroyer]

Modamag figured around 25% increase in brightness using the CBP1650's over the Sanyo / Engergizer / Durecell 2500mah cells. I myself on a fresh charge on each set of batteries measure

High output lamp

CB2500's 4.3 amps
Sanyo 2500's 3.8amps
CBP1650's 4.2amps

The low lamp draws 2.2amps


Thats why my new light utilizes the CBP2500's as the hold great voltage underload and still have good capacity.

Ok, thanks. So that would mean if I ran my 2D ROP on Energizers, that it would be around 100 lumens less than if I ran it on 1650's ?

I wanted to run it on 1650's, but it seemed to difficult to do because they lack a nipple on the positve end of the battery.

 

[Delvance]

If you're using Modamag's 6aa to 2D series holder for your ROP, it will still work with CBP 1650's, but you do have to break away the plastic ring on the holder.


http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1231240#post1231240
for a pic.

 

[thezman]

Do the CBP2500's have a nipple?

 

[Delvance]

They don't have nipples.

 

[missionaryman]

are the CBP2500 A or AA?

 

[jdriller]

2500 = A

 

[lexina]

are the CBP2500 A or AA?

They are A-sized. Same height (1.95") but fatter (0.66" vs 0.56").

 

[lexina]

Thats why my new light utilizes the CBP2500's as the hold great voltage underload and still have good capacity.

Do 6 of the CBP2500 'A'-size fit in modamag's 6AA-2D adaptors?

 

[jdriller]

No

 

[cmacclel]

Do 6 of the CBP2500 'A'-size fit in modamag's 6AA-2D adaptors?

The light needs to be Tri-Bored to use the "A" size cells.


Mac

 

[lexina]

The light needs to be Tri-Bored to use the "A" size cells.

Mac

Yup, thanks. Just remembered that 5mega recently did a run of tri-bored 2Ds which would accept the new 6A-2D adapters -

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/106022

 

[Burnt_Retinas]

Thanks guys,

At least I now know the origins of the 1150 lumens and it's nice to know such a globe in a Mag requires comparison to an M6 HOLA for perspective.

I'm after building either a Mag85/2D or the ROP so I can compare shots with you guy's with my other flashlights. We're a bit left out down under for flashlight shootouts.

This way looking at the AW C Li-Ion cells in a 2D/Mag85 with soft start/current limit initially (assuming C Li-Ion happens), but the ROP is an option. A 3 X AW C Li-Ion at 4AH+ in a 2D Mag would be real nice for an 01185. Based upon dry cell C length I think this one can be pulled off for a 2D, just, with a board and small battery spring in the base of a de-anodized (inside) tail-cap.

Modamag, may be worth checking this mod config out for a holder for the C's, perhaps even a complete mod? It'll double the run time for a Mag85/2D relative to NiMH's for a 2D as the C cells are over 4AH and the AH capacity of the NiMH's will of course not be as stated at 3A+ current drain. It'll need soft start of course due to protection circuit, but soft start is a real necessity anyhow for bulb life and prevention of insta-flash for overdrive configs.

Thanks again,

Chris

 

[wtraymond]

This way looking at the AW C Li-Ion cells in a 2D/Mag85 with soft start/current limit initially (assuming C Li-Ion happens), but the ROP is an option. A 3 X AW C Li-Ion at 4AH+ in a 2D Mag would be real nice for an 01185. Based upon dry cell C length I think this one can be pulled off for a 2D, just, with a board and small battery spring in the base of a de-anodized (inside) tail-cap.

Modamag, may be worth checking this mod config out for a holder for the C's, perhaps even a complete mod? It'll double the run time for a Mag85/2D relative to NiMH's for a 2D as the C cells are over 4AH and the AH capacity of the NiMH's will of course not be as stated at 3A+ current drain. It'll need soft start of course due to protection circuit, but soft start is a real necessity anyhow for bulb life and prevention of insta-flash for overdrive configs.

Wouldn't it be easier to build that 3C Mag85 with a 3C Maglite host rather than a 2D? The 3C Mag is much lighter and actually built to hold 'C' size cells. You wouldn't have to modify it to fit the batteries. I'm really looking forward to putting two 'C' li-ions in my 2C Mag ROP LE to replace the 18650s.

I believe the li-ion 'C' cells will be rated at 3600-3800mah according to AW. CBPs provides graphs for all their NiMH high drain batteries to estimate capacity and voltage at high current rates. SilverFox has some great graphs in the 'Flashlight Electronic - Batteries Included' forum which show capacity of the more common Sanyo, Energizer, Titanium, Panasonic, etc... NiMHs at high drain.

 

[cmacclel]

I have a 3d Mag85 running 9 x CBP1650's and it's noticably brighter than the ROP. It's just HUGE. I like little lights


Mac

Thanks guys,

At least I now know the origins of the 1150 lumens and it's nice to know such a globe in a Mag requires comparison to an M6 HOLA for perspective.

I'm after building either a Mag85/2D or the ROP so I can compare shots with you guy's with my other flashlights. We're a bit left out down under for flashlight shootouts.

This way looking at the AW C Li-Ion cells in a 2D/Mag85 with soft start/current limit initially (assuming C Li-Ion happens), but the ROP is an option. A 3 X AW C Li-Ion at 4AH+ in a 2D Mag would be real nice for an 01185. Based upon dry cell C length I think this one can be pulled off for a 2D, just, with a board and small battery spring in the base of a de-anodized (inside) tail-cap.

Modamag, may be worth checking this mod config out for a holder for the C's, perhaps even a complete mod? It'll double the run time for a Mag85/2D relative to NiMH's for a 2D as the C cells are over 4AH and the AH capacity of the NiMH's will of course not be as stated at 3A+ current drain. It'll need soft start of course due to protection circuit, but soft start is a real necessity anyhow for bulb life and prevention of insta-flash for overdrive configs.

Thanks again,

Chris