1164 bulb in sunlight = Epic power!, or does it?

[Juggernaut]

I posted a similar idea under the actual "sunlight" thread posted by Fivemega. Though it has been over a day and no one has replied so I wanted to make this more public. I can't see why no one else "especially people as power hungry as I am:devil:" thought of this? Though I'll probably be shot down in the first post on how this won't work:mecry:.

Anyways I was looking at all the various options for bulbs in the new Sunlight lamp assembly and I found that the 1164 WA bulb could possibly be the highest outputting bulb you could use. If one used 3x IMR 16340 cells in a P9 Surefire with a AW soft start switch for good measures this should make a killer combo. The bulb is a T2-¼ as is needed for the LA it pulls 4.4 amps at 10.4 volts "the same voltage as the EO-13 from LF" This is exactly the peak drain rate these cells can deliver. Even if one went on the conservative side of things and figured the cells would supply 10 volts from voltage sag, it would still put out a "predicted" 1800 Lumens which is much higher then that of the 1185 bulb. The 1160 bulb could be used with similar high output results off of only 2 cells:thumbsup:.

The flaws I can potently see is

:That the batteries may have some reduced life or they sag under to much strain "though they are still being used within their specifications".

:The bulb somehow doesn't work / fit:mecry: "need input from you guys:help:".

:The bulb may instaflash "though with the soft starter and the fact that small 16340 cells will sag somewhat under the load, should help.
Honestly when / if AW ever releases the IMR 18340 cells this will be a much more potent setup:twothumbs.

 

[buickid]

Go 18650s, I'm not sure 18340 will be a big jump in capacity compared to 16340...
Heres some calculations, I think are correct.
Volume of a 16340:
pi(8^2)34=6836 cu. mm.
Volume of a 18340:
pi(9*2)34=8652 cu. mm.
8652/6836= 1.30, a 18340 is 130% the volume of a 16340. (I think thats the proper wording)
A 18650 has the volume of: 16540 cu mm. Thats 242% the volume of a 16340.

A runtime calculator online tells me 7.5 minutes for a 550mAh cell at 4.4A.
Kinda short, but a good wow light.

 

[Juggernaut]

No doubt the 18650s would make for a much better runtime / output, but I'm mostly going for the wow factor of having such a small light put out so much power. The maximum cell size I could see my self using is 18500s, though as you can see from my calculations below when it comes down to run time at full power a light that offers 17 minuets of run time is more or less useless for anything, while a light that runs for 6 minuets is useless to, but could be used as an EDC easily "I used to EDC a taskforce which is much larger then a SF P9". Granted on low an hour run time would be nice but my EO-13 will run for an hour off of Li-ions while putting out 700 lumens compared to about 385. As long as the set up will work with 16340s "until 18340s come out" this should be fine:thumbsup:. Anyone know if this setup will set paper on fire:devil:? I would think it would:thinking:.

Note: all run times are based on amp draw rates I estimated and then multiplied by diminishing efficiency due to being less hotwired, and then the run time was multiplied by either 52,50, or 48 "rather then 60" to represent diminishing mah depending on load and the fact that you will not run the batteries totally flat.

Using 3x 16340s

1.32 amps at low out put for 20 minuets
2.64 amps at medium out put for 11 minuets
4.4 amps at high out put for 6 mineuts

Using 3x 18340s

1.32 amps at low out put for 30 minuets
2.64 amps at medium out put for 16 minuets
4.4 amps at high out put for 8 mineuts

Using 3x 18500s

1.32 amps at low out put for 43 minuets
2.64 amps at medium out put for 20 minuets
4.4 amps at high out put for 12 mineuts "higher out put then other setups"

Using 3x 18650s

1.32 amps at low out put for 63 minuets
2.64 amps at medium out put for 30 minuets
4.4 amps at high out put for 17 minuets "higher out put then other setups"


High 1,800-2,000 Lumens:naughty:
Medium 850-1100 Lumens "approximately"
Low 350-420 Lumens "approximately"

 

[bxstylez]

this setup is VERY, VERY BRIGHT

luckily i still have 3x 1164 bulbs lying around (1 of which is potted, and 2 bi-pin)
and WOW, i was shocked at the brightness, even on low, the light was white, vs. the yellowish light coming out of a WA1185 bulb on low-mode)

on high...... was ridiculously BRIGHT

it started getting warm in seconds when i had it on low; probably after ~45 seconds,
then i switched it to med, and high mode and was giggling LOL

then i turned it off and took out the batteries to let everything cool down


this setup is very cool to WOW your friends and co-workers.... just remember to use it in short bursts

.

 

[BSBG]

9AAs will flash an 1164 when fresh (maybe OK with a soft start) so I bet 3 18650s will too. Maybe, just maybe the soft start will protect it long enough for the voltage sag to let it live. I think it is worth a shot...

 

[Juggernaut]

this setup is VERY, VERY BRIGHT

luckily i still have 3x 1164 bulbs lying around (1 of which is potted, and 2 bi-pin)
and WOW, i was shocked at the brightness, even on low, the light was white, vs. the yellowish light coming out of a WA1185 bulb on low-mode)

on high...... was ridiculously BRIGHT

it started getting warm in seconds when i had it on low; probably after ~45 seconds,
then i switched it to med, and high mode and was giggling LOL

then i turned it off and took out the batteries to let everything cool down


this setup is very cool to WOW your friends and co-workers.... just remember to use it in short bursts

.

Thank you very much, that more or less settles that for me:thumbsup:! By the way I assumed you used this in the sunlight set up? With 16340s?.

 

[bxstylez]

Thank you very much, that more or less settles that for me:thumbsup:! By the way I assumed you used this in the sunlight set up? With 16340s?.

that's correct.....
used it in my SF 9P w/ 3x IMR16340's and AW's softstart switch in Z41 tailcap

turned it on low for a few seconds so the bulb can warm up before blasting it on high :naughty:

bulb fits perfectly in the G4 D26 SUNLIGHT socket/reflector

u wont regret this setup!
thanks for the idea!

.

 

[Juggernaut]

that's correct.....
used it in my SF 9P w/ 3x IMR16340's and AW's softstart switch in Z41 tailcap

turned it on low for a few seconds so the bulb can warm up before blasting it on high :naughty:

bulb fits perfectly in the G4 D26 SUNLIGHT socket/reflector

u wont regret this setup!
thanks for the idea!

.

So did you just try this after I posted? Because if you did "I'm not sure if anyone else has" but you may have the most powerful P9 on Earth as of this moment not to mention the most intense (power to size ratio) light ever! If my math is right you should be making no less then 1,750 lumens and up to 2,000 out of a light only about an inch wide and only 6.5 inches long! I'd hate to say it "to LED conservatives" but I don't thing any LED could pull off so much power in such a small package. My direct driven EDC P7 from what I knew was the most powerful EDC you could possibly get with an honest 800 lumens but this light could shatter that number by a multiple of 2 times and then and extra 400 lumens! If you don't mind…..and you have some news paper lying around ….you could try and see if it ….might combust:devil:.

 

[BSBG]

If my math is right you should be making no less then 1,750 lumens and up to 2,000 out of a light only about an inch wide and only 6.5 inches long!.

You have seen this thread:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/bulbs/1164.jpg

No way on the 1700 lumens .

 

[Juggernaut]

You have seen this thread:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/bulbs/1164.jpg

No way on the 1700 lumens .

lumens factory's HO-M6R T2½ 10.8V, 2.1A and EO-13 T2½ 10.8V, 2.2A both running off of 3x Li-ions, granted there could be probably around .4 voltage sag "may not be this much" with 16240s so I believe they are running the bulb at 10.4 volts, and 4.44 amps for
2064 predicted Lumens or minimum "predicted lumens from Lux" of 1722 lumens. I may not be an expert with this stuff but since the 10.8 volts the Lumen factory guys use in their 3x lithium rechargeable system must have been calculated in sag from the regular 11.1 volts of 3x li-ions so it should be close to the 10.4 of what I'm guessing will work. Of coarse I could be wrong the batteries could sag as much to 10 volts "though that seems extreme" and it still be 1800 predicted Lumens or minimum "predicted lumens from Lux" of 1517 lumens. Which isn't to shabby either. Lastly I would guess that the bulb would defiantly not be running at 10.8 volts since it should at that point "not sure about soft start though:thinking:" and would crank out in the neighborhood of 2,280 lumens! Though I highly doubt this:shakehead.

 

[RyanA]

I wonder if this could work with a two-stage resistorised switch like the McE2s. I guess that would be kind of like soft start. (I like to go low tech when I can get away with it). I might give it a shot. C'mon paycheck!

Awesome thread btw.

 

[bxstylez]

I wonder if this could work with a two-stage resistorised switch like the McE2s. I guess that would be kind of like soft start. (I like to go low tech when I can get away with it). I might give it a shot. C'mon paycheck!

Awesome thread btw.

i know AW's soft-start 3-level switch can handle easily 75+W of power

you have to remember that the 1164 is drawing about 4.4A..... multiply that by the input voltage of 10.4V; and we are seeing 45W, close to 50W at initial startup (before the bulb warms up and stabilizes)

50W OF THE SUN IN YOUR HAND !!


i dont know if the McE2s switch can handle that kind of power..... might have to research it

.

 

[RyanA]

i know AW's soft-start 3-level switch can handle easily 75+W of power

you have to remember that the 1164 is drawing about 4.4A..... multiply that by the input voltage of 10.4V; and we are seeing 45W, close to 50W at initial startup (before the bulb warms up and stabilizes)

50W OF THE SUN IN YOUR HAND !!


i dont know if the McE2s switch can handle that kind of power..... might have to research it

.

I'm not really too worried about the switch, it's basically just a 60ohm resistor. There isn't much in the way of complcated electronics. But it looks as though finding one may be a problem. The shoppe is out and I guess there is some doubt as to wether they'll be getting anymore. I suppose I'll have to try B/S/T.

 

[bxstylez]

I'm not really too worried about the switch, it's basically just a 60ohm resistor. There isn't much in the way of complcated electronics. But it looks as though finding one may be a problem. The shoppe is out and I guess there is some doubt as to wether they'll be getting anymore. I suppose I'll have to try B/S/T.

i remember Mark, from Lumens Factory, telling us that he burnt a couple of switches in a stock SF clicky-tailcap trying to drive his new IMR bulbs and recommended twisty-tailcaps

his IMR bulbs draw between 2.5A with 2 cells (7.2V) ... 2.5 * 7.2
thats about 18-20W of power right there that a SF clicky-tailcap cant handle under moderate to high power consumption in a small form factor light

we're stepping up to 50W of power with the WA1164 bulb
....thats why i recommend AW's softstart switch; although its ~$50, you'll have 3 brightness settings of lo,med,hi

.

 

[Juggernaut]

To put it into comparisons to how efficiently this bulb is being driven, a 60 watt 120 volt standard incandescent bulb puts out 530 lumens and your average 150 watt home bulb puts out 1,750 lumens.

 

[RyanA]

i remember Mark, from Lumens Factory, telling us that he burnt a couple of switches in a stock SF clicky-tailcap trying to drive his new IMR bulbs and recommended twisty-tailcaps

his IMR bulbs draw between 2.5A with 2 cells (7.2V) ... 2.5 * 7.2
thats about 18-20W of power right there that a SF clicky-tailcap cant handle under moderate to high power consumption in a small form factor light

we're stepping up to 50W of power with the WA1164 bulb
....thats why i recommend AW's softstart switch; although its ~$50, you'll have 3 brightness settings of lo,med,hi

.

Oh yeah, I realize that. What I should have said was that if I do burn up a switch then I'd consider it a sacrifice in the name of science:laughing:. In my opinion the benefit in functionality is worth the risk. I'll still consider the AW switch as a possibility. From some of Luna-tic's posts either switch is difficult to install in a g3 tailcap so this may be on hold for a bit until I've got some spare cash for a 9p.

 

[ElectronGuru]

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[Bimmerboy]

:That the batteries may have some reduced life or they sag under to much strain "though they are still being used within their specifications".

Yeah, 8C will beat the living snot out of these batteries. Very short duty cycles will be a must. I know they're IMR's and all, and granted, very strong for their size, but they're not little nuclear power plants. 4.4A is a LOT to ask of a 16340. My guess is voltage will drop like a rock, and you'll be getting a surprising amount less than 10V. Capacity at that drain rate won't be 550mAH either.

In fact, I tried the 3A draw FM1794 w/D26 socket (light stipple reflector) on two of them, and was slightly underwhelmed by the lowered output, and more orange color as compared to the same bulb driven by 18650 Li-Co's. After a couple to few minutes total runtime done in short bursts with plenty of time between each, the freshly charged batteries I started with were already down to 3.8V resting.

I'll soon be running what should be a really nice solution for the type of form factor being discussed, but ain't sayin' what it is until I get a few more bulbs, lest the sharks and vultures snatch 'em all up. :nana:

Will posts details... eventually.

 

[Juggernaut]

Yeah, 8C will beat the living snot out of these batteries. Very short duty cycles will be a must. I know they're IMR's and all, and granted, very strong for their size, but they're not little nuclear power plants. 4.4A is a LOT to ask of a 16340. My guess is voltage will drop like a rock, and you'll be getting a surprising amount less than 10V. Capacity at that drain rate won't be 550mAH either.

Yes I was worrying about that, worst case one should be able to run this setup fine off of 3x 18500s, and if this was the case then it may be possible to run the 1164 bulb with no soft start off of the 16340s because of the massive sag from the batteries:shrug:, though don't take my word for it.

 

[pete7226]

Anyone think the 1164 could be run on 3x18500 (not IMR) without problems?