123 Battery Shoot Out

[SilverFox]

Update:

Flash Gordon and someone else (I can't remember who) sent me some Sanyo CR123 cells that were made in China. I have posted a comparison of the made in Japan cells with the made in China cells in the first post.

Tom

 

[soffiler]

Update:

Flash Gordon and someone else (I can't remember who) sent me some Sanyo CR123 cells that were made in China. I have posted a comparison of the made in Japan cells with the made in China cells in the first post.

Tom

Hi Tom:

Thanks! I find your results are reasonably comparable with my own testing done at 900mA (this odd drain rate chosen because it is pertinent to my own application). Looking at the watt-hours, which IMHO is the best measure of "capacity", I see the Chinese cells are down 18% at .5A, down 14% at 1.0A, and down 11% at 2A. In my testing, I found the Chinese cells down by 15% versus USA-made Surefires. What I also found very interesting was the shape of the curves. They are almost indistinguishable until you look at the X-axis. All in all, I'm rather impressed with Sanyo's effort in China.

Steve Offiler
VP of Engineering
Central Tools, Inc.

 

[Flash_Gordon]

Hi Tom-

Thanks for the Sanyo China test. I know that your first limited impression was that these cells were down somewhat in performance from the Japan cells and that turned out to be validated in this test.

However, when I compared them to all the brands tested at the three discharge rates, the still compare quite favorably.

When you look at the cells that are available at the $1 price point they represent very good value and performance.

Mark

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Mark,

I should also point out that all of the Sanyo cells made in China tested at 100% on the ZTS tester. Consistency at a low price is what we all are looking for.

Also, keep in mind that I believe the Sanyo cells are rated at 1400 mAh at a reduced current draw and the cells made in China exceeded that specification.

Tom

 

[SilverFox]

Update:

Vew sent me some Tenergy CR123 cells for testing. I checked 10 cells on the ZTS tester and 8 of them were at 100%. 1 was at 80%, and the other was at 60%. The test results were done with 100% cells.

The results are in the first post.

Tom

 

[csheehy]

Forumites:

Can anyone tell me what the amp rating is for the following lights:

Surefire G2
Streamlight Twin Task (xenon/3LED)
Streamlight TRL-2 (LED & laser)

Just found a deal at a local store on Energizer Lithium 123s w/2015 exp date ($1.04 each) and was put off by the 2.0 amp chart posted above...

T-I-A from long-time lurker and first time poster.

Chris Sheehy

 

[lasercrazy]

I guess you never got to testing the ilumicells I sent you.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Lasercrazy,

Oops, thanks for the reminder. I will get to testing them this week.

Sorry for the delay.

Tom

 

[Gearhead Jim]

After using Duracell 123's in my Surefire 6P for several years I switched to the Surefire 123's. Performance and run time seemed identical, I need a new set about every 2 months. A couple of years ago I switched to a Surefire Nitrilon (the "plastic" version of the 6P). Since then I've had several instances of mysteriously dead batteries- the cells seemed to have about 1/2-1/3 of their life left (based on run time and brightness) but suddenly the light is completely dead; so I toss the old cells and install two new ones. Even though I seldom use the light for more than two minutes at one time, I blamed the problem on the internal thermal protection of the cells combined with the insulating properties of the Nitrilon plastic body: the cells get warmer during use than they did in the thermally-conductive aluminum 6P. But today I turned on the Nitrilon light for maybe 15 seconds, twice. It worked fine but when I tried it again it was completely dead. Installing new cells fixed the problem, some cell-swapping showed that installing one of the old cells would produce normal light, the other old cell gave nothing. So once again, I tossed the two old ones and kept the two new ones.
The expense of replacing these "bad" cells isn't much, but there are times when I really need the light to work. Can anyone explain why I'm having this problem, and how to cure it?

 

[TaeKwonDoDo]

Thanks for the great research.

Any idea where I can get good pricing on 123's? I have a Digilight DF1000xc (xenon). I went through amondotech and purchased 6 Titanium 123's. None of them worked in my flashlight (I know my light works because of the almost dead Titanium 123's that are in there now). They worked in my LED, but not my Xenon. Amondotech took them back and sent me 8 more (2 extra for my trouble). None of them worked either. So I am now looking for a new brand and a new vendor. Amondotech won't sell me any Sanyo's because they think I'm the problem (well, either me or my flashlight). Very frustrating. So now I've paid shipping three times. For nothing. Wheee.
Thanks...

 

[soffiler]

Thanks for the great research.

Any idea where I can get good pricing on 123's? I have a Digilight DF1000xc (xenon). I went through amondotech and purchased 6 Titanium 123's. None of them worked in my flashlight (I know my light works because of the almost dead Titanium 123's that are in there now). They worked in my LED, but not my Xenon. Amondotech took them back and sent me 8 more (2 extra for my trouble). None of them worked either. So I am now looking for a new brand and a new vendor. Amondotech won't sell me any Sanyo's because they think I'm the problem (well, either me or my flashlight). Very frustrating. So now I've paid shipping three times. For nothing. Wheee.
Thanks...

GE/Sanyo's from Botach Tactical:

http://www.botac.com/sanyo1.html

About $20 for a 20-pack, before shipping. My first shipment said "Made in China" but I must admit they proved to be nearly comparable to the Made in USA cells from other manufacturers. (I am referring to a full depletion test I performed at 1amp drain rate on West Mt. Radio equipment, NOT a ZTS-type test). More recently I got a batch with identical labels except they said "Made in Japan". These tested even better, totally on par with Made in USA cells. Same price. At this point I've developed a trust of GE/Sanyo CR123A's regardless of country of origin, but I cannot say that about other brands. I won't name any names but I've tested some other Chinese cells with private labels on them, and they simply don't measure up. GE/Sanyo is doing something right.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Jim,

Welcome to CPF.

I don't think the switching to the Nitrolon light has anything to do with the problem. Running the light 2 minutes at a time should not build enough heat to cause this.

This problem seems to surface from time to time. You may want to call SureFire and see what they have to say.

As far as a cure goes... did you have the same problem with Duracell batteries?

Tom

 

[SilverFox]

Hello TaeKwonDoDo,

Welcome to CPF.

You can also find reasonable prices at www.cheapbatteries.com

Tom

 

[Gearhead Jim]

Hello Jim,

Welcome to CPF.

I don't think the switching to the Nitrolon light has anything to do with the problem. Running the light 2 minutes at a time should not build enough heat to cause this.

This problem seems to surface from time to time. You may want to call SureFire and see what they have to say.

As far as a cure goes... did you have the same problem with Duracell batteries?

Tom

My original post was somewhat misleading, usually the light is on for only a minute or two but sometimes for longer. Unfortunately, I never time the light before it goes dead the next day!
I did not have this problem with the Duracells, but only used a couple of sets before changing to Surefire so don't have a good comparison.

 

[soffiler]

To expand on my previous post just a bit, I want to stress that all CR123A's are not created equal. I have been generally disappointed by most of what I've tested from China with the GE/Sanyo as the ONLY exception so far. Bear in mind too that I haven't tested EVERYTHING on the market.

The first problem with most Chinese cells (in my experience) is lower total energy storage. In practical terms, this means they can't deliver X current at the same voltage as the high quality cells; instead their voltage sags. Then, they reach full depletion sooner, too.

The second problem is explained in another thread on this forum, and that is mismatch from cell to cell. This can be a very signficant problem. NewBie has demonstrated, multiple times, a pairing of two brand-new cells in series (like in any 2x123A flashlight) where one is actually lower in capacity due to manufacturing variation. The weaker cell has failed explosively.

I want everything in a CR123A: I want energy-storage that is comparable with the best in the business; I want variation among cells to be an absolute minimum; and I don't want to pay a whole lot. Tough customer, huh? Cost is third on my list... energy-storage capacity and minimum variation are paramount concerns.

 

[pilou]

A lot of great stuff here.

Before stumbling on this thread, noticed that Botac sells 20/pack Sanyos for $19.95, and they mark in red "made in Kapan". See link

They also have Energizer e2s for the same price: link. Exactly whcih Energizers were used in the test? It seems like there is a regular and e2 (newer?) version? Energizer's website lists a 123 and an EL123 (e2?) with slightly different dimensions. Can anyone shed some more light on this?

Is Botac a reputable shop?

 

[pilou]

The 2-amp test conditions probably never met in real life

Btwy, it seems like all the "good batteries" perform fairly similarly with the 1-amp test. But there is more variation at 0.5 amp and even more at 2 amps. The big manufacturer names seem to do best for the 0.5 amp test. But batteryjunction and New Titanium seem to do a little better then them in the 2-amp test.

But how many lights actually operate in the 2-amp test mode? Think of it this way: how many single cell lights do you know that drain a 123 battery in about 20-25 minutes? I don't know of any. That would be awfully inefficient anyway. That's what multi-cells are for, to operate powerful lights more efficiently at higher voltages.

Unless I am way off in the above paragraph, it seems to me like most lights would drive 123 cells in the 0.25 to 1 amp range, with the big name batteries seeming to last longer in the lower current draw conditions.

PS: I just downloaded the spec sheet for the Energizer EL123. It sepecifies 1.5A Max for continuous discharge. It seems like some other batteries are rated at just 1.3 or 1.4 amps. This reinforces my belief that no designer would build a light that would draw 2 amps from these batteries. So the 2-amp test seems irrelevant to me since it is driving the batteries outside their normal range of operation. A 1.5-amp test would be the one to test these batteries at their limit, although I suspect no light would draw more than 1.2-13 amp if the designer thought about leaving some margin of safety.

Any thoughts?

 

[TaeKwonDoDo]

Hey all,

I need to take back everything I said in my previous post. the problem was with my flashlight. The existing batteries together were a hair longer than the new ones. When I shimmed the bulb, all the titanium batteries from amondotech worked - as well as new ones I got from the store. It was a mystery though... Thanks to those that replied.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Pilou,

It is obvious that you don't use a SureFire M6...

While most lights run in the 0.5 - 1.5 amp range, there are some that operate in the 2.5 amp range. The 2.0 amp testing is for those people.

Tom

 

[soffiler]

A lot of great stuff here.

Before stumbling on this thread, noticed that Botac sells 20/pack Sanyos for $19.95, and they mark in red "made in Kapan". See link

They also have Energizer e2s for the same price: link. Exactly whcih Energizers were used in the test? It seems like there is a regular and e2 (newer?) version? Energizer's website lists a 123 and an EL123 (e2?) with slightly different dimensions. Can anyone shed some more light on this?

Is Botac a reputable shop?

Sorry for the late reply, but I've been away on vacation. I've ordered from Botach (note spelling) several times and have zero complaints. They are the ONLY place I know (not that I know all that much) that sells reputable name-brand CR123A cells made in USA and/or Japan for a buck.