1500w Halogen fixture

[tronester]

I plan on buying some CFL's online, but I also noticed they had these http://www.1000bulbs.com/10-in.-Double-Ended-Recessed-Single-Contact-Halogen-Light-Bulbs/ at 1000 bulbs. They are less than 10 dollars, and provide 33,000 lumens, yet require no ballast system. However, I cannot find any fixtures to hold them. Is making a fixture to hold them a DIY job or am I just not looking for the right items?

Thanks!

 

[broadgage]

High power halogen lamps do not make efficient use of electricity, and therefore for regular use should be avoided as large electricity bills will result.
For regular use, flourescent or perhaps metal halide lamps would be better.
If however the expected hours of use are limited, then the running costs are of little consequence, and halogen worth considering due to the low initial cost.
Owing to the great heat produced by these lamps and consequent fire risk I would advise against any home made fixture. Also most halogen lamps must be enclosed by toughened glass to contain the pieces if the lamp shatters.
Any good electrical supply house should be able to supply fixtures.

Also note that the 120 volt 1,500 watt lamp will use most of the capacity of a residential 15 amp branch circuit, you wont be able to use any other appreciable loads on the same circuit.

 

[jason 77]

Also note that the 120 volt 1,500 watt lamp will use most of the capacity of a residential 15 amp branch circuit, you wont be able to use any other appreciable loads on the same circuit.

Good lord, that sucker would pull 12.5 amps at 120V .... You could broil a bird under that thing! LOL

 

[superjoe83]

Good lord, that sucker would pull 12.5 amps at 120V .... You could broil a bird under that thing! LOL

lol, ya for comparison that halogen light consumes 1500 watts but ONLY puts our 33,000 lumens, now compare that to a 1500w metal halide that uses about the same power but puts out 161,000 lumens!!

a 400w metal halide will provide about 40,000 lumens and use 1/3 of the power of that halogen monster, plus the life of the MH is about 20,000 hours

 

[Twinbee]

They might be inefficient, but that 'waste' heat isn't actually waste when it's winter over here in the UK.

I bought myself one of these halgoen bulbs (1000w), and I'm seriously considering getting another one, so that we can have 2000w of pure juicy light/heat for our living room. Anything less is a stone-age cave

However, I've noticed that the glass casing is turning slightly misty/foggy. Is this a cuse for concern if the bulb decides to shatter? I'm worried the glass casing will break if it is weakened sufficiently.

 

[blasterman]

They might be inefficient, but that 'waste' heat isn't actually waste when it's winter over here in the UK.

Just being technical, but you could get a 750watt space heater *and* metal halide and put out both more light and more heat for less energy consumption.

That's because energy isn't being wasted causing the front glass to change composition, etc.

 

[Twinbee]

I know about the metal hallide ones, but they seem a little bit risky in terms of health/safety. Even I have my boundaries

Are you sure about the energy waste though? I have my suspicion that only a small fraction is wasted on changing material etc. Doesn't it all just degenerate to heat anyway?

 

[broadgage]

I know about the metal hallide ones, but they seem a little bit risky in terms of health/safety. Even I have my boundaries

Are you sure about the energy waste though? I have my suspicion that only a small fraction is wasted on changing material etc. Doesn't it all just degenerate to heat anyway?

I believe that you are correct, virtualy all the energy used by the halogen lamp ends up as heat.
Such lamps are not wasteful in areas that require electric heat, but are somwhat wastfull in areas with gas heat, because gas is cheaper than electricity. In areas not needing heating at all, halogen lamps are very wastfull indeed and should be avoided for long term use.

There is nothing unsafe in metal halide lighting in the home, and I would recomend it when high light levels are needed.
Most metal halide lamps are liable to explode with great force at end of life, a correctly made fixture will however contain the pieces without danger.
Many metal halide lamps emit dangerous levels of UV radiation, but again a properly made fixture will contain this without danger.

I would strongly advise against any home made fixture for metal halide lamps, however the correct use of a ready made fixture, from a reputable supplier should be fine. DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT USING A FIXTURE WITH A CRACKED, BROKEN OR MISSING COVER.

Some metal halide lamps are approved for use in open fixtures, they have an internal shield of wire mesh or toughned glass to contain the pieces if the arc tube shatters. The outer envelope is made of material that blocks UV.

 

[Twinbee]

Interesting thanks. Dare I ask about the ramifications of an unprotected metal halide bulb (during its life).

Most metal halide lamps are liable to explode with great force at end of life

To be honest, even that would be enough to put me off them. I might be able to conjure up enough courage, but visitors may not be so accommodating (decibel rating at 1m of final explosion?). I think they may not have easy fixtures either?

I can't believe that halogen is the best bet then. It seems sad that we can't really produce a good bright lamp which has the efficiency of say CFL with the brightness of halogen.

 

[65535]

Interesting thanks. Dare I ask about the ramifications of an unprotected metal halide bulb (during its life).


To be honest, even that would be enough to put me off them. I might be able to conjure up enough courage, but visitors may not be so accommodating (decibel rating at 1m of final explosion?). I think they may not have easy fixtures either?

I can't believe that halogen is the best bet then. It seems sad that we can't really produce a good bright lamp which has the efficiency of say CFL with the brightness of halogen.

The occurrence of spectacular bulb failure is incredibly low, but enough that with the UV radiation is enough to warrant a proper enclosure at ALL times. Not that those halogens are any less dangerous, they give off UV and IR in dangerous amounts.

Bright lights with the efficiency of FL and the brightness of halogen ARE HID's. They operate on very similar principles as FL and CFL bulbs but operate at much much higher wattage density.

http://www.1000bulbs.com/100-Watt-PAR-38/
http://www.1000bulbs.com/70-Watt-Metal-Halide-Ballast/2969/

Those should be great. All you need is a properly sized mogul base and a mount. You wouldn't even need an eternal housing for the lamps. Though I might recommend some type of can fixture.

 

[ponygt65]

The occurrence of spectacular bulb failure is incredibly low, but enough that with the UV radiation is enough to warrant a proper enclosure at ALL times. Not that those halogens are any less dangerous, they give off UV and IR in dangerous amounts.

Bright lights with the efficiency of FL and the brightness of halogen ARE HID's. They operate on very similar principles as FL and CFL bulbs but operate at much much higher wattage density.

http://www.1000bulbs.com/100-Watt-PAR-38/
http://www.1000bulbs.com/70-Watt-Metal-Halide-Ballast/2969/

Those should be great. All you need is a properly sized mogul base and a mount. You wouldn't even need an eternal housing for the lamps. Though I might recommend some type of can fixture.

Would you mind explaining that part to me. Did you mean efficacy or efficiency? Forgive me if I seem rude, I'm just confused by what you mean.

Also, IDK if you realize this, but you linked a 100 watt lamp and a 70 Watt ballast kit. IMO, I would install an Electronic HID ballast with a PAR MH lamp. It would make for an easier setup. Good suggestion on the PAR MH.

 

[65535]

Would you mind explaining that part to me. Did you mean efficacy or efficiency? Forgive me if I seem rude, I'm just confused by what you mean.

Also, IDK if you realize this, but you linked a 100 watt lamp and a 70 Watt ballast kit. IMO, I would install an Electronic HID ballast with a PAR MH lamp. It would make for an easier setup. Good suggestion on the PAR MH.

http://www.1000bulbs.com/100-Watt-Metal-Halide-Ballast/

You're right I didn't notice that, anyways for example in my room I use a dual 48" T8 32 watt fluorescent lamp. That's about 64 watts and 5500 lumens. A similarly powered HID would be 70 watts in the size of a 40 watt CFL producing 5600 lumens.

The thing about HID's is a 1,500 watt lamp produces over 100,000 lumens in a relatively small package.

Similar efficiency but the HID packs more watts per the size.

Both are technically gas discharge lamps, but FL requires phosphor because the light given off by the gas is UV.

 

[blasterman]

Are you sure about the energy waste though? I have my suspicion that only a small fraction is wasted on changing material etc. Doesn't it all just degenerate to heat anyway?

Oh fine, make me think off the clock. You really need a good pub and a pint for this type of talk, you know?

You see, a space heater is going to use a nichrome filament and a housing reflector to create/direct radiant heat. This will allow it to do a better and more efficient job creating and directing thermal energy than a big halogen. While a halogen bulb is using the same power source, and emits the same radiation via IR, a lot of the power is going to get sucked up by the surrounding fixture and glass because it's designed to be efficient with light and not heat. By the same analogy, a space heater doesn't make a very good desk lamp.

All things considered, I'm more scared of getting near a 1000+ watt halogen fixture than a 150-400watt HID that's for darn sure. About the only place you see halogens that big is for stage/theater/broadcast because it's easy to dim. Obviously there's more cost up front with the ballast and such with the HID, but there's no superior beast when it comes to throwing massive amounts of light in a small package. 'Cept for maybe carbon/xenon arc.

I woulnd't rule out CFL either. +80watt screw in CFLs are available via mail order, and trust me, an 80watt 5000k CFL in a cheap reflector throws out an absurd amount of light.

 

[ponygt65]

http://www.1000bulbs.com/100-Watt-Metal-Halide-Ballast/

You're right I didn't notice that, anyways for example in my room I use a dual 48" T8 32 watt fluorescent lamp. That's about 64 watts and 5500 lumens. A similarly powered HID would be 70 watts in the size of a 40 watt CFL producing 5600 lumens.

The thing about HID's is a 1,500 watt lamp produces over 100,000 lumens in a relatively small package.

Similar efficiency but the HID packs more watts per the size.

Both are technically gas discharge lamps, but FL requires phosphor because the light given off by the gas is UV.

I apologize for my confusion, but I don't comprehend where and what size has to do with anything. I'm lost because your examples went from 4' linear's to low wattage HIDs (presumably MHs), to 1500 watts.

Are you referencing efficiency in terms of size for lumen output? If that's the case, size is completely subjective.

I've had a busy week though, so that may be why I'm unable to follow. I do not mean to come across as argumentative, so I apologize again if that's the case. Just trying to understand.

 

[65535]

The size is the physical size of the package. a metal halide lamp will produce similar output levels per watt (efficiency) of a fluorescent but in a smaller physical package. You can have 1500 watts packed into a large mogul based bulb where that would require much larger physically sized FL lamps.

 

[I'mIn]

Let's just say that the halogen's consumed energy produces as much heat as a space heater does, for the sake of argument. Now most people install lights on their ceilings and and heaters right by the floor. For good reason too, since heat rises what good does it do to have the heater on the highest point in your room? Even if the energy consumption is the same that's a terrible place to install it wouldn't you agree?
Sorry for the light sarcasm but it was an easy way to explain things

 

[ponygt65]

The size is the physical size of the package. a metal halide lamp will produce similar output levels per watt (efficiency) of a fluorescent but in a smaller physical package. You can have 1500 watts packed into a large mogul based bulb where that would require much larger physically sized FL lamps.

That's where I was confused.

Lumen per watt is efficacy. Sorry to be so technical, but I just wanted to be clear.

I understand what you're saying now.:twothumbs

 

[65535]

After reading some (albeit wiki) in my data less post, I THINK that efficiency and efficacy can be interchanged because the difference is efficacy is the amount of light per watt where as the efficiency is the percentage of the output related to a perfect light conversion of almost 700 lumens/W.

I could see the confusion though.

Light sources that have the same L/W efficacy will also have the same efficiency in percentage. Which would be

(L/W actual) / (L/W perfect)

 

[ponygt65]

After reading some (albeit wiki) in my data less post, I THINK that efficiency and efficacy can be interchanged because the difference is efficacy is the amount of light per watt where as the efficiency is the percentage of the output related to a perfect light conversion of almost 700 lumens/W.

I could see the confusion though.

Light sources that have the same L/W efficacy will also have the same efficiency in percentage. Which would be

(L/W actual) / (L/W perfect)

I agree. In my experiences the term 'efficency' is widely used and sometimes often misunderstood. I just like to try to clarify.

 

[blasterman]

Now most people install lights on their ceilings

Uh, unlike 'most' people I install my lights next to the area I need them, and use these things called 'lamps' rather than drill lots of holes in the ceiling. I don't like my living spaces to look like the banquet room at the Ramada.

Sorry.....I take any chance I can to bash recessed lighting :nana: