2D Mag85 Questions

[RichS]

The protection circuit on them is set at ~5.5A.

That's good to know. I guess I won't be doing any resistance mods then...:duh2:

 

[2xTrinity]

Well, this pretty much fits the bill for my original goal -a Mag85 with more runtime in a more compact host! I had no idea that 3 C cells would fit in a 2D Mag - this sounds perfect.

They can, but you lose the ability to store a spare lamp (as the tailcap is filled up). With 3C, you can still fit a spare. 1185s are nice in that they're one of the only bipin bulbs small enough to actually fit in the spare holder of the MagC's

I don't know but I think that 5761 in the max for 2 AW "c" cells...
also with this set-up you should use a soft starter...

Yeah, under the 5.5A load though the AW C's sag considerably running the 5761. My Kaidomain D-Cells actually do better under that load, but unfortuantely those will ONLY work with a soft-starter, as the short circit protection kicks in at around ~6Amps on those, which is pretty lame -- ROP-Hi won't even light without a soft starter.

As for the 1185 I believe the soft starter is needed for a different reason, the problem is that under ~3A load, the cells don't sag enough, so if freshly charged they are at risk of instaflashing the bulb. With the 3xEmoli 26700 in a 4C, the 1185 is particularly vulnerable to instaflash because those don't sag nearly as much as most other LiIons.

I have used all three (ROP, 5761, 1185), and between them, I liek the convenience of the ROP in that it is potted, and can be easily swapped for a "low" lamp in a pinch. I like the beam pattern of the 1185 the best though -- the filament geometry leads to the most concantrated beam of the three. The odd number of cells limits options for hosts, though. 5761 is good because it has the most lumens, but they're a bit more dispersed.

 

[RichS]

Well ok, you've all convinced me to go with the Mag 3C 1185 w/ AW C batteries. I liked the idea of the even shorter 2D mag, but the "magic air" comment got me thinking.. What really pushed me toward the 3C was the additional benefit that was mentioned of being able to store a spare lamp in the tailcap. It will be pushing the bulb hard after all, and if I'm to trust this thing in real-world use, it would be nice to know I can quickly throw a new bulb in if need be. I also ordered an AW soft-start/multi-level driver for it to make it even more reliable and versatile. Also as someone mentioned, I did need to buy the 10mm adapter for these cells to fit.

I sold my previous 3D Mag85 to free up some funds for this one. Thanks for your help - this is going to be one sweet Mag85!

 

[Patriot]

I think that a good choice rich. Now that I've used 3Cs I don't have in interest in going back.

Keeping an extra bulb handy is a good idea and limiting the voltage you charge your cells to is even more helpful.

 

[LuxLuthor]

Rich, as others have said, there is no problem running 3 x Li-Ion cells. 1185 needs about 3.5Amps, so it won't trip the AW protection circuit like the 5761.

If you want to fit them in a Mag 2D, 3 x AW C Li-Ion's will fit IF you dremel out some of the bottom of the switch plastic in center so front most battery seats up a bit higher. Also you need to put a soft spring and rough up inside center of tailcap so contact is made with 3rd battery to spring to tailcap inside.

Here was an example of a 3D that FiveMega sold several times using 3s3p of Lithium 17500 (Pila 150s)

A 3C Mag is another alternative, but my main point is you need to watch your full charged voltage (or add some minor resistance).

Usually with STOCK mag setups (stock switch, his bipin holder, and tail spring + batteries will give 250-300 milliohms resistance) like FM has done, if your charged Vbat is about 12.8V, you will lose a volt from resistance moving it into a safer, non-flashing bulb range. (Ohms Law V=IR so Vdrop=3.5Amps x 0.25 Ohms)

 

[Timson]

Rich,

Remember AW's C cells are slightly longer than consumer C cells....

If you want space in the tailcap for a spare lamp - remember to get one of AW's 10mm spacers (if he still has any). :thumbsup:

EDIT - OOPS SAW YOU ALREADY DID THAT - Must read all the words


Tim.

 

[Stereodude]

You're a bad influence on people Rich. First you sell me your 6AA -> 2D RoP (my first hotwire) getting me hooked, then I read this thread and decide that I need to build a 2C RoP with AW's "C" Li-Ion cells for better run time and a smaller size. :candle:

Who knows what you'll talk me into next.

 

[RichS]

You're a bad influence on people Rich. First you sell me your 6AA -> 2D RoP (my first hotwire) getting me hooked, then I read this thread and decide that I need to build a 2C RoP with AW's "C" Li-Ion cells for better run time and a smaller size. :candle:

Who know what you'll talk me into next.

Then my work here is done. :naughty:

If I have to be pulled into this vortex of pursuit of ever-brighter and better incandescent hotwires, I'm taking everyone I can with me!

Seriously though, if you really want to blame someone, blame LuxLuthor, mdocod, and 2XTrinity just to name a few...they are the truly bad influences! :devil:

 

[LuxLuthor]

Then my work here is done. :naughty:

If I have to be pulled into this vortex of pursuit of ever-brighter and better incandescent hotwires, I'm taking everyone I can with me!

Seriously though, if you really want to blame someone, blame LuxLuthor, mdocod, and 2XTrinity just to name a few...they are the truly bad influences! :devil:

I don't know what you are talking about!

 

[RichS]

A 3C Mag is another alternative, but my main point is you need to watch your full charged voltage (or add some minor resistance).

Thanks LuxLuthor. Now I'm just a little nervous about my config since I'm using AW's C driver which has super low resistance. I put one of these in a 2C Mag w/ 5761 bulb, and it seems twice as bright as when I ran it in a stock Mag config, even with a low resistance mod in the tailcap. I use a WF-139 charger and AW C batteries, and they charge up to about 4.10v. I don't think I've ever had a charge go to anything close to 4.20v. Would this be a pretty safe voltage, or am I still at risk of instaflash? Is there an easy way I can add resistance if I run into problems?

BTW - nice vortex Lux! But that one doesn't even compare with the real one you've helped to create here!

 

[LuxLuthor]

Thanks LuxLuthor. Now I'm just a little nervous about my config since I'm using AW's C driver which has super low resistance. I put one of these in a 2C Mag w/ 5761 bulb, and it seems twice as bright as when I ran it in a stock Mag config, even with a low resistance mod in the tailcap. I use a WF-139 charger and AW C batteries, and they charge up to about 4.10v. I don't think I've ever had a charge go to anything close to 4.20v. Would this be a pretty safe voltage, or am I still at risk of instaflash? Is there an easy way I can add resistance if I run into problems?

BTW - nice vortex Lux! But that one doesn't even compare with the real one you've helped to create here!

I remember asking AW who said his driver had around 200 milliohms, so I think you will be OK, especially with the soft starter feature, but I honestly have not tried that specific setup to know the total resistance....so I'm pretty sure that will be ok, but not 100% sure.

 

[2xTrinity]

Thanks LuxLuthor. Now I'm just a little nervous about my config since I'm using AW's C driver which has super low resistance. I put one of these in a 2C Mag w/ 5761 bulb, and it seems twice as bright as when I ran it in a stock Mag config, even with a low resistance mod in the tailcap.

Here is an image from my recent incan shootout"



The image on the leftt is a 2C 5761 with a stock switch and AW C Cells, low resistance mods elsewhere (ie, Kiu socket, tailspring). The image on the right is also the 5761 using Kaidomain D-Cells. Just before the test, all the cells were charged to 4.15V

While I believe the kai cells actually are lower resistance, I believe most of the differnce is due to the switch. When switching the light off-on I actually hear a audible arc from the current in the stock switch

Don't look at the relative brightnes --as the reflector used are different and the hotspot image is saturated -- but look instead at the color temperature. The lamp on the left is the same apparent color temp as my 3500k room lights. The lamp on the right (lower resistance D-Driver) is noticeably whiter. Tungsten melts at about 3700k. That means it's running JUST short of failure, and if resistance were as low without a PWM soft start, it would flash.

Considering there is no inrush current with a soft starter, I would say as long as you don't charge your cells above 4.15V, you should be fine. And in the cae of the AW C-Cells, which sag more under the load than the Ds, you may be fine up to 4.2.


AW, if you'r ereading this, you need to come out with the regulated version of these drivers already

 

[RichS]

I remember asking AW who said his driver had around 200 milliohms, so I think you will be OK, especially with the soft starter feature, but I honestly have not tried that specific setup to know the total resistance....so I'm pretty sure that will be ok, but not 100% sure.

Good to know, thanks. I'm feeling a little better about it, especially with the soft start. One thing's for sure though, this is going to be one white beam!

 

[RichS]

Considering there is no inrush current with a soft starter, I would say as long as you don't charge your cells above 4.15V, you should be fine. And in the cae of the AW C-Cells, which sag more under the load than the Ds, you may be fine up to 4.2.

Thanks 2xTrinity. I guess since the regulated versions aren't ready yet it's good I'm going with the C cells. It sounds like from what you and Lux have said that with the soft start and slight sag of the C cells I should be relatively safe from instaflash. Based on my last Mag85 vs Mag61 shootout, it is going to be very interesting to see how these two new builds - each with an AW driver and C cells - is going to turn out! After seeing the crazy output of my new Mag61 build with the AW driver and C cells, I almost abandoned my Mag85 because it outclassed it by a good margin. In the end though, I would miss the nice tight, beautiful beam of the Mag85, so I had to do the same upgrade to it.

I just got the Borofloat lens today, still waiting on the AW parts....the anticipation is killing me!

 

[Stereodude]

Does the Mag61 use a Phillips 5761?

 

[RichS]

Does the Mag61 use a Phillips 5761?

Yep.

 

[2xTrinity]

Does the Mag61 use a Phillips 5761?

It's become a convention on here to title a light:

"Mag" the bulb number of a light without the leading two digits, ie:

Mag11 -- WA1111
Mag85 -- WA1185
Mag61 -- Philips 5761
Mag623 -- Osram 62623

 

[Stereodude]

It's become a convention on here to title a light:

"Mag" the bulb number of a light without the leading two digits, ie:

Mag11 -- WA1111
Mag85 -- WA1185
Mag61 -- Philips 5761
Mag623 -- Osram 62623

I know that...

I was just partially confused by Rich's comment because on paper the 5761 doesn't necessarily look like a very good bulb to use with 2 AW's "C" Li-Ion's due to current draw being greater than 5A (the limit of the batteries circuitry) and the fact it goes poof at 7.9V, so I asked to double check. :shrug:

 

[RichS]

I know that...

I was just partially confused by Rich's comment because on paper the 5761 doesn't necessarily look like a very good bulb to use with 2 AW's "C" Li-Ion's due to current draw being greater than 5A (the limit of the batteries circuitry) and the fact it goes poof at 7.9V, so I asked to double check. :shrug:

Oh, my friend, let me tell you....

The Philips 5761 is the best bulb (IMHO) to use with 2 AW C batteries - in the right config of course.

AW C batteries are rated at 3300 mAH. The max you should push li-ions is 2C, which would be 6.6A for these cells. So first, at max draw you are within the safety limits using these batteries with the PH 5761.

The next question then is will the protection circuit kick in when powering up the bulb - the answer is yes unless you are using a soft start. This is why I bought AW's C driver for soft start and levels. The beautiful thing about this setup (and I am still amazed at this thing...) is that it powers the bulb on full high with no problems (protection has never kicked in even once), and I can choose to run it at low or medium for longer runtime which is actually all I would ever need in reality. When I need a blast of light I just kick on high. On hight it honestly looks about 30% brighter than my Mag85 which puts out around 1300 lumens. I thought I was just "seeing things" since it was a new build, so I asked my wife and she agreed it was much brighter than the Mag85.

So in a tiny unit - a Mag C just seems tiny to me now after having a 2D ROP and 3D Mag85 - it is the brightest of the three with the most practicality and versatility.

So when do you start your Mag61 mod?

 

[Stereodude]

So when do you start your Mag61 mod?

Never! :thinking:

I'll just wait for you to sell yours when you upgrade.

BTW, I was just being cautious because of this line from AW: " Recommended Max. Continuous Discharge Rate : 5A"