2x123A / 1x18650 Searchlight

[Andrey]

Scenario. Kayaking on a lake at night looking for a beach suitable for landing and camping. To save effort the shoreline should be illuminated from longest possible distance, at least 400 ft.
A light for this purpose should be compact to fit in a pocket -- max 2x123A / 1x18650 with 1.5" bezel diameter.
Runtime can be as short as 3 min. It takes just a few seconds to look at the spot and a headlamp is covering remaining needs for lighting.

The best solution I found so far -- SF with Malkoff M60 drop in producing 235 lumens in 8-degree beam.

Any suggestions for more powerful / better focused light of such dimensions?

Thanks,
Andrey

 

[hyperloop]

i own an Aurora WF-600 which i got off DX, it can run on 18650 or 2 x rcr123s and it throws pretty far, think it should not be a problem to hit 150m (that should be about 450ft).

Cons with that light is that durability is a hit and miss thing, mine had a bit of problems with the head, the connection wasnt so good but its not given me any real problems so far. I would be a bit more worried about the water resistance as you are kayaking.

Perhaps a Jet III Pro Ultra IBS is for you, its got 225 lumens and its waterproofed with 3 modes individually programable so you can have the 1st mode set for max to scout out a landing beach and the other modes at lower levels to set up camp etc and conserve battery life. I personally own the Jet III Pro ST but am not too sure how well that one throws. Have read that the Jet III Pro Ultra is a better thrower than the Pro ST.

 

[Benson]

1.5" bezel? That cuts down on the good options... A Raidfire Spear (no longer made) or the Piritlight knockoff would be a really good choice, but 45mm bezel's about 1/4" too large for your specification. All else being equal, throw scales with reflector diameter, so you probably can't touch it in your specs.

From one of the reviews on DX, it has a 2-degree beam (1.5m spot at 50m), which should translate into substantially greater throw for your application -- even though its 200 lumens and traditional reflector probably means substantially less light in the spot, it's in ~1/16 the area, so it's still more intense. (I haven't actually got a Piratelight :laughing: yet, but I keep being tempted. That makes this recommendation hearsay, but the Spear is highly regarded, and there's some discussion of the Spear clones here.)

Whatever you pick (for reflectors, the class I know best), you want a smooth reflector (as big as you can afford from size constraints) and a single-die emitter, preferably Q5 (or R2) for Cree, or whatever SSC's top bin is these days. Deeper reflectors throw more light into the beam and less into spill, and larger diameter reflectors throw farther. Quad-die emitters (P7 and MC-E) can deliver nearly 4 times the light, but over more than 4 times the area, so they do not throw as far as single-die emitters.

A good aspheric thrower can get even tighter, and you might find one of these in your size specifications that outperforms the Spear. I can't afford these, though, so I don't keep track of them.

Optics like on the M61 are... different. They manage all the light, from the front and the sides, and I don't really know what to look for in them except specifications (e.g. beam-width in degrees) and beamshots comparing them to any other lights of interest.

 

[youreacrab]

to discern detail at this distance you're going to want a warm emitter. check out the fenix tk20. its a bit bigger than you've spec'd, but its what i would use in this application. m60w would probably have equal spotting capabilities as this--just a guess.

 

[electric sheep]

Dereelight with smooth reflector.

 

[old4570]

Eeeeeeer !

Beg-in ur pardon .
sku.21037 over at DX

If it didn't have strobe , I would have been all over it !

 

[Shorty66]

What about asph. lenses? Shouldn`t it be possbile to get that kind of throw in a small package with such a lens?

I would really like the TK20 if it would support beeing run with one 14500 and if it was considerably smaller.

 

[notsobrite]

i don't have any light specific light suggestions, but, based on my personal experience, i don't think i would trust what you're doing to anything from dx. i mean under those circumstances you probably really want it to work when you press that little button.


notsobrite

 

[pOkiE]

Eeeeeeer !

Beg-in ur pardon .
sku.21037 over at DX

If it didn't have strobe , I would have been all over it !

I really want a MC-E P60 style drop in like this but I want a hotspot and decent to good throw. I got all excited when I saw this but its only for 1xCR123 or 1x18670 and I typically run 2x123 primaries

 

[Mjolnir]

Most of the dedicated thrower lights have bezels of about 45mm, which is slightly wider than your requirement of 1.5 inches.
However, you will get a lot more throw from one of these dedicated throwers than you will from a somewhat throwy "normal" light. Something like a Tiablo a9, dereelight DBS, raidfire spear (or DX clone), or one of the other dedicated throwers will have more throw than an M60.

 

[n2deep]

I just purchased a RaidFire Spear from 4sevens.com just 2 weeks ago. It might not be made anymore but you can still buy it. I love it! I think it would be a good option for your needs. And it uses 1x18650.

 

[Toaster]

Olight M20 R2 with optional smooth reflector is best choice imho staying within your size constraints. If you can go a little larger, Dereelight DBS R2 will have considerably more throw. I wouldn't consider anything larger than a DBS to be pocketable. See some comparison beamshots here.

 

[TommyGuns]

I agree with Toaster on the Olight M20. Id's suggest reading the specs. I think they're impressive and the reviews are favorable on this site. If you want a versatile light with long run times on low, plus one of the throw kings in it's class (if you include the Spear).

I draw the line at the M20, anything bigger I think is too big, just my opinion though.

Although I may make an exception for an Eagle Tac Mx or MxR.

Have fun hunting for the light. There's lots of great information and people in the forum.

Here's another good thread doing comparisons:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=214238

 

[Andrey]

All,
Thank you for your suggestions and input. It helped a lot with my research.

Hyperloop,
Aurora was a surprise for me that you can get a light under $50 of such a build quality.

Benson,
After looking at specs of different lights I realized that it is a good idea to push max diameter to 2". Throw distance depends so much on a reflector diameter that one may agree to have a larger bulge in a pocket or bigger belt holster.

Shorty, Mjolnir,
Units with aspheric lenses are very interesting. Thanks for pointing to these.

Toaster, TommyGuns,
These are great collections of beamshots!
M20 is a good suggestion.

I even started looking at HID lights: Microfire T503 'Terminator III', Mini-HID, and Eznite. Possibly one of these will be ideal solution for my application.
Unfortunately, there are reports of various issues with T503 and two others are not readily available.

Overall, much more options than I expected. Not an easy choice.

Cheers,
Andrey

 

[old4570]

I really want a MC-E P60 style drop in like this but I want a hotspot and decent to good throw. I got all excited when I saw this but its only for 1xCR123 or 1x18670 and I typically run 2x123 primaries

On a single 18650 it might be just fine . + If you get something like a Solarforce L2 , you can fit an aspherical lens onto it to improve throw .

I ordered a lens from KD / 28mm .
The combination could be an insane thrower in a small package .

lovecpf

 

[Andrey]

Best LED throwers use an aspherical lens. Thus we just need to find a good compact one.

X2000 from DX is an interesting option: http://www.dealextreme.com/search.dx/search.x2000

Anybody knows of a better aspherical lens light with small bezel?

Andrey

 

[Benson]

Best LED throwers use an aspherical lens. Thus we just need to find a good compact one.

But with aspherics, good throw and compact are still opposites -- bigger lenses give tighter throw, too.

X2000 from DX is an interesting option: http://www.dealextreme.com/search.dx/search.x2000

Anybody knows of a better aspherical lens light with small bezel?

Andrey

Don't have one of those, but there's threads on them here and here. I've thought of getting one (affordable, after all), but hear mainly bad experiences with them. (OTOH, a lot of the complaints are about the slide-to-focus mechanism -- I'd buy the twist-to-focus version, anyway, so maybe it'd be okay.)

A bit more expensive, but as zoom lights go, LED Lensers are better-reputed -- maybe their P7 would fit your requirements. (IDK if it's actually any throwier, but they sound like better build quality.)

 

[Strauss]

HID's no doubt throw the best, but will not work well for your intentions. They require a "start-up" time, when the bulb warms up to full temp and output. You will not be able to just scan real quick and put it away, most HID's take at least 30sec to reach full output. Then there is the problem with hotstriking them and so on....

I personally think your best bet would be the Dereelight DBS with a smooth reflector and 5A Q3 LED. The warmer tint will help you see things better at distance, and the DBS throws a mean beam out as far as 200yds.

If you wanted to stay smaller than that, the M20 with the smooth reflector is a good choice. A Dereelight CL1H with smooth reflector and 5A Q3 LED would also work very well. Last but not least the Fenix TK11 R2 throws very well with it's smooth reflecter and would fit the bill as well.

 

[Andrey]

Decided to get a DBS with R2 :devil: AND JetBeam Ultra to see whether I could get around with larger light or settle for shorter throw.

Still can not find any serious stock lights with lenses. It eludes me why lens has to bee relatively large to focus light properly?
Light emitted by LED is refracted in the proper direction irrespective of lens size. Small lens placed closer to the emitter will be receiving same amount of light as a large one further away.
Thus where radiation is being lost making it so difficult to create a good small thrower?

 

[Benson]

HID's no doubt throw the best, but will not work well for your intentions. They require a "start-up" time, when the bulb warms up to full temp and output. You will not be able to just scan real quick and put it away, most HID's take at least 30sec to reach full output. Then there is the problem with hotstriking them and so on....

There's a new one, a Stanley 35W, that pretty much eliminates those issues. But it doesn't do anything for the big problem -- I don't know of any HID, at any price, that fits the size requirements desired:

A light for this purpose should be compact to fit in a pocket -- max 2x123A / 1x18650 with 1.5" bezel diameter.

After looking at specs of different lights I realized that it is a good idea to push max diameter to 2".

There's a few Mags and similarly sized lights that come out OK on diameter, but AFAIK, they're all much longer than a 1x18650 light, and I don't think their sizes are realistic for kayaking.

Still can not find any serious stock lights with lenses. It eludes me why lens has to bee relatively large to focus light properly?
Light emitted by LED is refracted in the proper direction irrespective of lens size. Small lens placed closer to the emitter will be receiving same amount of light as a large one further away.
Thus where radiation is being lost making it so difficult to create a good small thrower?

Same deal with lenses as with reflectors; radiation's not being lost, it's just being spread over a larger angle, because the emitter die size doesn't scale down along with your decreased lens/reflector diameter and focal length. So halving the lens diameter and focal length basically means your hotspot will have twice the beam angle, and a quarter the intensity. If you keep the beam angle tight by keeping the focal length the same, and shrink the diameter, you capture less light and get about 1/4 the intensity (as you already considered). To get more throw, you need a bigger aperture, or a smaller emitter with the same total output, i.e. higher surface brightness; TANSTAAFL.