6p vs. 6pl

[timmyr41]

First of all, great site. I've been searching and scanning all day and I've learned a lot so far. I'm at the point where I need to look for some help though. First off I will state my needs.

I'm looking for a flashlight to fill 2 rolls. Role #1 will be to replace my 4 D Cell Maglite that I usually carry with me when I go hunting. I'm just sick of carrying that beast around. Role #2 would be for when I'm not hunting. I want a light to keep with my pistol in the event that I need to use the gun and a light.

I've been looking at the 6p and the 6pl and I think I've got myself backed into a corner in my head. I like the 6p because it has a longer throw and has a nice warm "regular light" color to it however when hunting the runtime of 1 hour is less than ideal.

At the same time the 6pl runs longer but does not have as much throw as the incandescent version.

Then I see the Malkoff drop ins and think the best option may be to get an incandescent model and stick one of those in. But for right now I'm going to stick with just purchasing the light and no aftermarket parts so that takes us back to 6p vs. 6pl.

So in any case, I'm looking for some direction as to what you guys use and find useful in these situations. I've noticed that there isn't really a one size fits all flashlight out there but for my first "real" flashlight I'd like to try to get something to fill these rolls if at all possible.

I"m sure this has been asked a lot before and I know from time spent on other forums that someone is probably going to tell me to use the search function. I have searched most of the day and I'm having trouble finding much of anything relating specifically to the 6p vs 6pl. Most topics seem to be 6pl vs. Malkoff 6p.

 

[M@elstrom]

Sounds like you need an incandescent/LED hybrid... considered the A2 Aviator (also from Surefire)? :thinking:

 

[Brasso]

Another thing to consider is that an LED will allow rechargeable CR123's. The incan can't do that. I'd go with the 6P. You can find decent drop ins for less than a Malkoff if price is an issue. If not, carry some spare batteries till you can.

 

[foxtrot29]

First of all, great site. I've been searching and scanning all day and I've learned a lot so far. I'm at the point where I need to look for some help though. First off I will state my needs.

I'm looking for a flashlight to fill 2 rolls. Role #1 will be to replace my 4 D Cell Maglite that I usually carry with me when I go hunting. I'm just sick of carrying that beast around. Role #2 would be for when I'm not hunting. I want a light to keep with my pistol in the event that I need to use the gun and a light.

I've been looking at the 6p and the 6pl and I think I've got myself backed into a corner in my head. I like the 6p because it has a longer throw and has a nice warm "regular light" color to it however when hunting the runtime of 1 hour is less than ideal.

At the same time the 6pl runs longer but does not have as much throw as the incandescent version.

Then I see the Malkoff drop ins and think the best option may be to get an incandescent model and stick one of those in. But for right now I'm going to stick with just purchasing the light and no aftermarket parts so that takes us back to 6p vs. 6pl.

So in any case, I'm looking for some direction as to what you guys use and find useful in these situations. I've noticed that there isn't really a one size fits all flashlight out there but for my first "real" flashlight I'd like to try to get something to fill these rolls if at all possible.

I"m sure this has been asked a lot before and I know from time spent on other forums that someone is probably going to tell me to use the search function. I have searched most of the day and I'm having trouble finding much of anything relating specifically to the 6p vs 6pl. Most topics seem to be 6pl vs. Malkoff 6p.

You can buy the 6P or 6PL -- they will both take the Malkoff. Personally, I think your first option (buy the 6P then the Malkoff M60) is the best option. I have this configuration and use it as my main duty light at work. I can use rechargable RCR123's, and when I'm stuck or anticipate longer run time needs I can stick in regular CR123's. Or even a single 17mm cell rechargable for slightly less light with a long runtime.

Spend a little extra now -- for no disappointment later. Too many people end up buying cheap drop-ins "until they can afford a malkoff". I'd be willing to bet many end up spending more on the cheap options trying to find something they aren't going to find for nothing.

 

[Tiresius]

i agree with going with a 6p for the time being and then get a malkoff dropin. There are other cheaper dropins available for the 6p besides a malkoff. But from what i've heard, you cant go wrong with a malkoff.

It would be a great upgrade from maglites in terms of weight and brightness. The throw in an incandescent is more but not by far so you wont noticed much of a difference besides the better color retention compared to LED.

Seeing as the unemployed person I am, I'd go with the incan @ a cheaper price and then use the difference plus some extra money to get a decent dropin.

 

[kelmo]

Welcome to CPF!

You can buy either one of the lights and get the other light engine as well to put in a spares carrier. So if you buy the 6P, purchase a P60L and a SC1 spares carrier. Run the the incandescent lamp until the batteries can't provide the quality of light that is right for you and then swap out the P60 LA for the P60L to use up the rest of the battery power. The P60L being regulated will give you max output right up until the batteries die.

I do this with my C3. I really prefer incandescent light over LED light. When the batteries are too depleted for the P90 LA I usually get about an hour of regulated runtime using the P60L. This way I get maximal usage from the batteries.

If you ever get into a survival situation you will be happy you have the P60L in your kit as you will get at least 6-7 times the runtime out of a set of batteries as opposed to using an incan lamp only.

This way you can audition both and decide what your next purchase will be, incan or LED.

kelmo

 

[kramer5150]

So... your list of requirements are:

-At least 60 minutes run time
-75 Lumens
-Warm tint
-Long term storage for use in emergency
-Some degree of reliability

The 6PL has a very pale-white tint IMHO so I don't think that would be ideal. The P60L module has poor thermal conductive cooling for its Seoul emitter. To get around this SF uses a temperature sensing circuit to drop output when emitter temperatures rise from long ON durations. IIRC P60L output drops roughly in half when its thermal protection circuit kicks in.

As for the 6P incan... the P60 module draws ~1-1.25A (IIRC). I don't think it will meet your run time requirements... or at the very least you'd be pushing the limits of 2xCR123 cells, assuming you are using quality USA cells. You should be aware that Lithium cells can explode if over-discharged at a high current draw. You should also factor in that the P60 module total lifespan is only ~25 hours, probably even less if mounted onto a rifle or being subject to impact.

It doesn't sound like you are of the "brighter is better" crowd, being that the P60 and P60L are ~70-80 Lumens.

I think the easiest way to get what you are looking for is a 6P + Malkoff M60WLL + Surefire primaries. I seriously think its a PERFECT match for your criteria.

Curious... why you are hesitant against a Malkoff unit? They offer a LOT more than just light... reliability, quality, customer support, warranty, proven track record, thermal efficiency, output per watt consumed, beam quality...etc...

FWIW, I have not read ONE account here on CPF of a malkoff M60/M30 drop in unit failing. I can't think of ANY other flashlight product that has a perfect track record here on CPF.

 

[Icebreak]

Welcome to CPF!

You can buy either one of the lights and get the other light engine as well to put in a spares carrier. So if you buy the 6P, purchase a P60L and a SC1 spares carrier. Run the the incandescent lamp until the batteries can't provide the quality of light that is right for you and then swap out the P60 LA for the P60L to use up the rest of the battery power. The P60L being regulated will give you max output right up until the batteries die.

I do this with my C3. I really prefer incandescent light over LED light. When the batteries are too depleted for the P90 LA I usually get about an hour of regulated runtime using the P60L. This way I get maximal usage from the batteries.

If you ever get into a survival situation you will be happy you have the P60L in your kit as you will get at least 6-7 times the runtime out of a set of batteries as opposed to using an incan lamp only.

This way you can audition both and decide what your next purchase will be, incan or LED.

kelmo

Great strategy. Bravo. No kidding.

 

[Marduke]

Try a 6P + Malkoff M60LW

 

[RobertM]

As M@elstrom mentioned, take a look at the SureFire A2. If you can afford it, it really seems to meet your needs and is an excellent light. Unlike other incans, it is regulated so you get nice, bright light for the entire duration of the cells. They have selling on CPF Marketplace for around $100-115 lately!

My A2s are definitely some of my most useful lights.

Between the 6P and 6PL (my first SureFire was a 6PL), I would say without a doubt, get the 6P over the 6PL. Save the money and get the 6P. Then if you want it to be LED, buy a quality drop-in (Malkoff, etc.). IMO, the P60L is next to worthless with how blue its beam tint is. Even if you want it to be LED from the start, buy the 6P and put the saved money toward a quality drop-in.

Before you buy anything, you owe it to yourself read js's review of the A2 found here.

Good luck with your purchase!

-Robert

 

[metlarules]

Check the Malkoff website. I think you can get a complete flashlight with a m60w for like 90 dollars. I'd much rather that the the stock Surefire led module.

 

[jimmy1970]

Check the Malkoff website. I think you can get a complete flashlight with a m60w for like 90 dollars. I'd much rather that the the stock Surefire led module.

+1

The MD2 with M60 pack is great value for around $89 USD. Make sure you get the hi/low bezel ring (extra $22) - makes the light much more usable with a extended runtime on low - (only recommended with a full-house M60 or M60W emitter).

Trust me - I've got a 6P, C2 etc and the MD2 is the best combo with that nice, clicky switch.

James.....

 

[Yoda4561]

M60WL, 6p/MD2, and either some bulk surefire 123A's or a couple AW 17670's and a charger. 4+ hours of 100 lumen light. 17670's have almost an unnoticable lower output, similar if not longer runtime, and no matter how much the light gets used you won't need to worry about new batterys for the next few years.

 

[shark_za]

I am probably brainwashed and trust the Surefire 6P and this format for serious business but have recently investigated other battery and form factor options.

A nice setup for a small tac light that can double as a hunting/camping light is the iTP C7 Tactical with C8 tube as a spare.

Its brighter than the standard P60L module and has good runtime when run as a 2xAA (C8)
An added benefit is that you can ramp it way down while camping to get serious runtime at say 20-40 lumens.
I prefer the 18650 cells in the P60 type hosts when camping (running CR123 becomes too expensive) and that would mean a bore job on a 6P. AA format is cheap to run with good rechargeables. (I got C-9000 and GP Recyko/Uniross Hybrio)
You can use Lithium primaries for when it really matters.

Set it to 1xAA max tac mode and it does that job as good as any other.
Set it lower and add another cell and its a great camping light.

Having said all this I doubt it will replace my 6PDL as my night-time defender light.
I took the P60L out and put it into a G2 and popped a Lumens Factory D26 high output LED in. Also banged a cell extender on to add some runtime (9PDL I guess)
Its a cheaper alternative to the Malkoff but saying anything like that is bound to get me lynched on CPF. Its like talking to Jihadi's sometimes.

 

[Max_Power]

My first "real" light was a 6P defender (incandescent) into which I quickly put a Malkoff M60. I bought a 6PL Defender later and was a little disappointed with the unimpressive dim blue LED. Wanna buy the P60L module from me? :_) Now I am playing with a couple $25 DX MCE modules on the 6Ps which drain a 17670 battery in roughly 25 minutes. I plan to replace those with something more efficient and rugged in the future.

Knowing what I know today, as a first light I would buy the MD2, an M60W (warm, or actually neutral white), the hi/lo ring, and one or two 18650 batteries with a decent charger. Eventually that's what I would end up buying anyway, so it's cheaper to just buy it the first time.

Things that led me to this conclusion:

Bright - 170 lumens (warm-white tint) is a lot of light from this small of a package.

Runtime - around 90 minutes on high (really!) with 18650. Much longer on low.

Quality - It is not likely to break, and if it does break, Gene's service is the best. No bashing the flickery light to get it to work. No jumping into unwanted "modes" every time it is shaken or dropped. No breaking when dropped. No accidentally turning on in your pocket.

Multiple Power Sources - The MD2 barrel allows the use of an 18650 rechargeable lithium cell, which has noticeably higher charge capacity than CR123 primaries or 17670 rechargeable lithium cells that fit the Surefire 6p. You can still use the skinnier CR123 or 17670 cells in the MD2 if you want. The difference in light output between two CR123s (6v) and the single rechargeables (4.2-2.8v) is not very great until nearly the end of the charge. The voltage on rechargeables is near 3.7v for most of the discharge curve, which is .1 volt below the point where the light drops out of voltage regulation and becomes direct drive.

Why an M60: Unlike the M30, M60 modules have reverse polarity protection. M30 modules will also POOF if you use 2 CR123 cells. Stick with the M60 for reliability and wider choice of power source.

The extra flashlight diameter relative to a 6P is a plus for me, since I have large hands. If I ever need to use the light as a self-defense tool, it won't slip out of my grasp very easily.

Simple, effective user interface - The MD2 switch is a standard forward-clicky with intermittent-on capability - there are no annoying "modes" to step through. If you want dimmer light, the optional hi-lo ring allows you to set it to high or low with a slight twist of the bezel, and the light stays in the same mode even after power cycling. If you want to strobe, you can use momentary-on, or just sweep the beam back and forth with a flick of the wrist. (Strobe mode is a good way to find out if someone is epileptic. Use with caution!)

Why Warm Tint - I have an MD4 body filled with 2 18650 rechargeable cells and a M60W-MCE (warm tint, flood) that is my current favorite. It has a smooth, eye-pleasing flood beam for room-clearing or lighting up my garden at night without ruining my night vision with hot spots. The color rendition beats the crap out of any cool-white LED. Cool-white makes people look pale, like they've lost half their blood. Vegetation and soil look weird in cool-white.

Now I am awaiting delivery on a 5A (warm-neutral) tint MD4 Wildcat... is the drool apparent? I don't need it much for indoors, but it would be nice to have more throw in a warm-white light for outdoors.

I also ordered a cool-white MD4 Wildcat for comparison. Maybe use that on one of my AR-15s... Does anyone have source for a suitable weaponlight mount to picatinny rails?

Max Power

 

[Max_Power]

After you purchase your new light, make sure you take a low-light handgun course so you learn safe and effective techniques for using a gun with a flashlight. Then practice those techniques. You will be glad you did so if the need ever arises to use your handgun with the flashlight.

You might consider getting a flood version so you can spend less time aiming the light and more time aiming the pistol.

MD2 + M60WF + 18650 (or 2) + charger + hi/lo ring

The M60WF module was on sale last month for $10 off... sale looks to be over now.

Also remember to use "CPF" code for 10% CPF discount...

www.malkoffdevices.com

 

[timmyr41]

Well thanks for all the information so far. I've learned a lot more. I've got 2 hunting trips coming up here in November which is why I wanted to jump on getting the light right now. It is also why my funds are slightly limited. I think what I may do here is get the incandescent 6p and use it on my first hunting trip. Once I see how that level of light works for me on the trip I can make a better decision as to which Malkoff drop in would suit my needs best.

That being said I really like the look of the A2 as well and i can see that being close to perfection for my hunting needs. I often navigate at night with a red light from my headlamp to avoid killing my night vision and alerting all the deer in the area of my arrival. I could use the red led's for navigation supplemented with the incandescent when needed.

So now to hijack my own thread.

Any hunters out? What is better for following a blood trail? LED or Incandescent?

Thanks again for the information so far.

 

[kelmo]

I have a M60W and while it is impressive it is not a practical light out in the field IMHO. It simply is too bright and floody for my taste. The glare it produces is intense. For a high output LED option I prefer the Bugoutgear Cree Super premium drop in. It produces a nice tight hotspot so you don't get much spill produced glare. While on the cool side (I call it winter moon illumination) it is still a great illuminator within 50m.

My recommendation still stands, get the P60L. The regulated runtime on primaries is twice that of the M60W. And it also fits in the SC1.

 

[timmyr41]

Well I placed my order. I got the incandescent 6P with a FM35 red lens. I figure that is the best place to start at this point. After my first hunting trip I will make the determination weather to go with the M60W or an M60WL. Probably the WL but we'll see once I get the light in the woods.

Thanks for the help. I'm still in the "I can't believe I just spent that much on a light" stage but I'm sure that will change once I have the light in my hand.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Get the SF E2L, 6.5+ hours on high vs 4 hrs for P60L. Same light output + E2L will do 60+ hours on low. See this thread. Post #6 for P60L, and posts 15, and 16 for E2L. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=216438 Lux measurements are light output not lux at one meter.

Bill