9,000 Lumens Worth of Carley Bulbs

PlayboyJoeShmoe

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Okay Wilkey.

I didn't think I would need that extra 1.2V but I shall try it forthwith...

<<testing>>

... bingo! It is now noticeably whiter and brighter than the KPR112.

The 3D is still marginally whiter and brighter but mostly I think because it focuses a wee bit tighter than the others, and also because I believe I put Belkin brand film on that lense which doesn't diffuse the light as much.

But the KPR112/3 123 and 809/4 123+1.2V Lith AA both have a more usefull beam shape.

All this light is fun!!!
 

Ginseng

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Cool!

Joe,
if you haven't done so already, try jimmying the lamp pedestal a bit. I've found that I can get my 809 to go from not so well focused to pinpoint by rotating the bulb in the holder and/or moving the lamp pedestal a little bit. Wedging some paper in between the switch body and body tube might halp as well as was suggested further up this thread.

Wilkey
 

Illuminated

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Put the paper shims between the lamp pedestal and its guide tube - not between the switch body and battery tube. You want to shim-out most of the side-to-side play of the lamp pedestal.

As mentioned throughout these posts, there are many tricks for getting that pinpoint spot focus. Unfortunately, it takes patience to endure the trial-and-error process usually required with the Mags to get it right.

Most PR-based lamps (including the Carleys) vary a lot in how well the filament is centered relative to the base - and even if the glass bulb looks straight, the filamant varies in position inside the glass from one lamp to the next. All of this kinda stinks.

So, just to summarize a list of my best fixes (based on my experiences) here goes. Please note that there is no priority to the order of the list relative to the amount of improvement. All of them help in most cases, and some are used as a last resort to obtain improvement.

1) Teflon tape the head-to-body threads to minimize head wobble.

2) Trial-and-error (T&E) repositioning (rotating) the reflector inside the bezel until best beam is acheived. [Until someone else mentioned this, I thought I was the only one desparate enough to spend hours trying to find the sweet spot like this...]

3) T&E repositioning of the lamp in the lampholder. Note that not only rotating the lamp may help, but shifting the lamp to one side or another can/will help.

4) For lamps that I can't even get close, I hand-file away a small amount of the bulb flange to allow more freedom to shift side-to-side.

5) Paper shims alongside the lamp pedestal (only if excessive freeplay is evident).

6) "Texturizing" the reflector with clear heat-resistant paint (only if a bit of beam smoothing is desired). Results vary considerably based on application technique, etc.

7) I have sand-blasted (etched) just the lensed end of the Mag Krypton lamps to *help* tame the "grinwurst". Makes them more tolerable IMO. Should work for the Carley lamps as well, though it's not a perfect solution, and again results will vary depending on method/degree of etching.

8) For KPR's that have obviously off-center filaments, I have "flicked" them into being perfectly centered again. Flicking is done by aligning the filament parallel with a flat surface (table) while holding the lamp base with one hand. Place the glass about 1/8" - 1/4" from the surface and carefully, but sharply, flick the glass against the surface using the back of the fingernail. You are essentially "smacking" the glass lamp against the table, thus causing the filament standoffs to bend towards the table. PLEASE NOTE - I use a hard-cover book, or a magazine, several sheets of paper, etc. to provide some slight padding against the table, otherwise I fear that such an impact against a hard surface WILL BREAK THE GLASS! It hasn't happened yet, but it is possible. I can't say whether flicking the filaments like this this shortens lamp life in any way, but I haven't had one blow yet...

8) Lastly, I highly recommend the UCL lenses due to maximim light pass-through. The difference is immediately noticeable once installed.

I'd just like to mention that careful (tedious T&E) of reflector/bezel position and lamp/holder position has yielded an excellent long-throw, near-perfect beam in a Mag 2D with the 805 lamp, (3) Powerstream 1/2D Nicads, UCL lens, and a Mag 2C reflector, using no texturizing or WriteRight. (I don't know why, but the C-reflector does somehow seem to be better...) It throws *very* nicely for a "2D", and has bright run time of about 90 minutes.

Hope this helps -

John
 

Ginseng

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John,

Thanks for the clarification. I had not realized all that could be done to try to deal with the Mag's shortcomings. You are truly a tenacious guy to employ all these techniques in search of the perfect throw.

Wilkey
 

PaulW

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John,

I completely agree with Wilkey. Your work on this will be very useful to me as well. Thanks.

Paul
 

PaulW

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I've had the chance to run some tests and make some observations about the Carley bulbs. First, I did some subjective observations about the brightness of the bulbs that I recently received.

I compared the 808-4 (CL808 on 4x123), the 809-4 (CL809 on 4x123), and the 809-4.5 (CL809 on 4x123 + AA). I was not as disappointed as others with the output of the 809-4. In fact, I could not really notice a difference among the 3 different configurations.

I also got some CL762s. I think I was the only one to order. So, just let me say that 5x123 in a Mag 3C gave a reasonably bright light, but I could not focus it to a spot because the filament is so large. I preferred the CL805 on 3 C cells, even though the power it put out was less.

The CL612 on 3x123 has been my favored light until I opened my new bulbs. I like the 809 better, but only marginally. They both have the important quality of being able to throw a very tiny spot a looong distance. I also favor the Tigerlight LA which operated very nicely on 3x123, giving the same amount of output, but with a wide smooth flood.

Below is a chart of electrical characteristics of the various bulbs or LAs on fresh cells. The voltage is measured across the bulb under load. The power is a calculated amount. Bear in mind that error (due mainly to rapid voltage changes in a fresh battery) is probably in the region of +/- 10 per cent.

Lamp_Batteries__Volts__Amps__Watts__RunTime(est.)
TL____3x123____7.36__1.97___14.5___30
612___3x123____7.50__1.88___14.1___35
808___4x123___10.40__1.20___12.5___60
809___4x123___10.75__1.20___12.9___60
809_4x123+AA__11.50__1.27___14.6___55
805___3 x C_____3.90__1.79____7.0__210
762___5x123___13.75__0.66____9.1__140

I think I'll stick with the 612 on 3x123 or the 809 on 4x123. I prefer the latter because of its longer run time. I also find the TL LA in the Mag 2C with 3x123 a keeper. For the 809, I prefer the battery configuration without the additional AA because it is not noticeably brighter (to me, at least) and it has the large advantage of using a smaller host (Mag 2C vice Mag 3C).

Paul

P.S. I flashed my third 808 today. Only one left. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif
 

Ginseng

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Paul,

Thank you so much for making these measurements for us. It looks like the 808 overdriven (OD) and 809 underdriven (UD) end up about the same place. I guess that's not a horrible result. The 809 offers the added benefit of being pushed in the 4.5 so I do like that.

I've been thinking about the 612 myself. Cheap at just $3.11 each and you don't get much more with a potted 1057 a $6.16. The TL LA offers a nice option, but is a bit pricey at what, $15 per?

I reiterate again, echoing you, I like the 805 in 3C/D config. Would that be 1.5 if a SF123 is a whole unit?

The 762 must be the same shape as the 999 I got. Capsule and filament are freakishly huge.

Thanks again for all this great work and time spent.

Wilkey
 

PaulW

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Wilkey,

Yes, the 612 is great. I had forgotten that its price was so much cheaper than the others. Tonight I noticed that the hot spot from the 809 just isn't as tight as the 612. The only downside to the 612 is the short run-time. I'm giving further thought to the 2x3x123 configuration in a Mg 2D that we discussed briefly on another thread. It would be helpful for either the TL or the 612.

With respect to that helpfulness, perhaps you've observed that the run time for 123s is not precisely in inverse proportion. SF HOLAs at 2.5 amps run for 20 minutes, whereas LOLAs at half that current run for triple that time. Thus is the value of running two rows of 123s when the current gets up to the 2 amp region.

Regarding Tigerlight LA price, it is only $10.00 at flashlightlens.com . It fits directly in the Mag head with just a couple of twists of the leads.

Having played with the recent bulbs from Carley, I feel more comfortable in making decisions of somewhat more permanence, i.e. committing to what configurations I will use in what places. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Paul
 

PlayboyJoeShmoe

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I guess everyones mileage will vary.

Update: The 2D M*g I rescued from a corroded battery that I fixed up to run 4x123 and a 6cell Whitestar (which never flashed while in that light) which led to me getting a 3C M*g for the same purpose which led me to get in on the Carleys.... (deep breath!)

Today I stuck the same combo back in that light, because I messed up the lense and couldn't force enough light through with C's... hit the switch, and POOF! another M*g 6cell Whitestar bites the dust.

That particular 2D blows my mind!

I ran my 3D (4C) M*g with a 4.8v bulb for a couple hours and have put a Rayovac KPR103 3.6v .75a bulb back in it. BRIGHT!

I sure am scared of blowing up the 809(s) with 4x123 and 1x1.5AA....
 

Ginseng

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Joe,

To be safe, I would not run the 809 on fresh SF213s in a 4.5 setup. Make sure they have a few minutes of use on them. The 809 will run very bright on 5x123 but only if they've had quite a few minutes of usage. Fresh, they'll blow.

Wilkey
 

PlayboyJoeShmoe

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Update: The case of the missing battery!

I knew that I had pretty fresh SF 123 Liths plus a brand spanking new Lith AA in my 3C with 809.

So I removed the AA to run the 123s for several minutes. I went to put the AA back in the light, and it is nowhere to be found! I tore up the house, particularly my bed where I do a lot of stuff sitting on.

The earth swallowed it!

So I got the used one out of my Infinity, and my 3C is pretty darn bright!

I'm gonna look some more for that AA, but haven't much hope.
 

PlayboyJoeShmoe

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Update:

Carley 809 on 4x123 + 1 AA Lith = bright!
WA01318 on same 4x123 + 1 AA Lith = BRIGHT!
Don't know for how long but...
M*g 5 cell Whitestar on 3x123 + 1 AA Lith = Bright (almost by the eye as bright as the WA!)

All my lights have Writeright at this time, no telling what a nice reflector and a UCL lense might be worth.....

Thanks to Wilkey for turning me on to it, and giving me the oportunity to try it!!! (the WA of course!)
 

soloco

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What's a 01318? What are the specs? My brightest light now is a 2D with WA01185. 816.81 lumens!!! That's just insane. It lights up my whole house!!!
 

Ginseng

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Joe,
Running 7 cell equivalent through a 5 cell? You're a crazyman! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Soloco,
What are you powering the WA01185 with?

Wilkey
 

PaulW

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Right on, PJS. Those cheaper bulbs will usually take a much more substantial overdrive than the expensive ones. The Carleys and WAs at rated voltage are already being driven at a pretty high temperature.

Paul
 

soloco

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01185 is being powered by 15 (that's right, FIFTEEN) CR2 lithium batteries in a 2D. I think it's the smallest/brightest flashlight I've ever seen. Of course, it requires a solid aluminum Carley reflector, and I can't leave it on for very long or the innards will probably melt. But it IS BRIGHT!
 
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