A caver looking for a suggestion

fenix-store
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vader

Newly Enlightened
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
51
Location
Colorado
I am new to the forums here. I have been a caver for 20 years and I though I was crazy about lights, but There is alot more information here than I ever thought.

well I am looking to replace my 2nd light source. My primary light is a Princeton tech Apex and I am very happy with it. It has a 3 watt spot that puts out about 65 Lumens. It also has 4 regular LEDs around that. My 3rd and 4th light sources are both reliable, but smaller lights that are just there incase my primary goes out.

As a 2nd light source I have been using a Spitfire V by LitePro. It runs on 3-123 A batteries. I can't find anything on it when I Google the name, but as I remember it puts out around 120 Lumens? I use this light just for big rooms. There is nothing wrong with it, but like many of you I just have this thing where I have to buy a new light every once in a while.

I am looking for a light that is right around the 100 dollar mark, and puts out over 160 Lumens.

There is a light I think it's called the Fenix P3D. It is just about perfect as it puts out 160 Lumens and comes in well under 100 dollars. I am a little concerned about the off on switch though it says something about having to turn the front of the light. When caving most of the time you have on big wet and muddy gloves. The more simple the off on switch the better. I am still looking. There is one light that puts out 210 Lumens and another that claims to put out 700? there is another Cree on ebay that says it puts out 176. Here is the link.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190110303993&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=190110085751&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=StoreCatToStoreCat&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget

Do you have any suggestions to help me through this mess of flashlights?

Thanks,

Dan
 
Almost all Ebay seller state Bulb Lumen, which are always higher that out the front lumens, others just lie. A few do state out the front lumens.

The Stenlight is very well built but it is also well over your budget($310 during time of review).

Fenix-Store sells Fenix (shipping is included in the price) in and there is a CPF8 cupon code for 8% off the price. Fenix is not a relly water proof light. It can take dunks but can't take extended peroid in water

If you haven't noticed yet, Cree X-RE and Seoul P4 LEDs are new LEDs with twice the efficency as a Luxeon LED. Cree is rated at 210 lumen at 1 amp (700 lumen from a Cree is not possible) and Seoul is about the same.

The Princeton tech Apex(review) is pretty good(actual lumen is about 50). If you can open it up and mod it with a Seoul P4, you could get 100 lumen of light.

Babrolight makes dive lights so mud and guck should be no problem. But the price might be out of your range.

One of the lights on this page might be good for replacing your Spitfire(all can be had for under $100).

You might want to put more requirements to pin-point you prefect light. Like water proofness, runtime, multiple modes, batteries, and projection ability.

Welcome to CPF!
 
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Lumapower M1 Tactical or

Lumapower MRV


These lights come with two switches in the box, 2-stage switch, and 1 stage momentary switches. Since you're wearing gloves in wet and muddy environment, the 2-stage switch would be a good idea. They are both dunkable and have lanyard loops. Both take two CR-123s or one 18650 cell.

The M1 Tactical works with Surefire diffuser and filters.

get a nice lanyard for it.
 
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Here's a thought from a caver who used carbide for 20 years...

My second light was a second carbide lamp. My reasoning applies equally to modern LED headlamps.

When your primary fails (say your Apex) and you are 15 hours back in the cave, you can switch to your #2 light - also an Apex. The advantages are: No learning curve, same batteries, and you can expect the same characteristics on the 15 hour trip out as you did on the way in.

Personally, I would keep the #2 Apex loaded with Energizer AA lithium batteries, assuming that the Apex can take the extra voltage. They have a shelf life measured in years. I would also slip a piece of paper under one of the battery contacts to be 100+% positive that no unintentional discharge took place in the years that you never needed the #2.

Now, for the number 3 light, perhaps you can reuse your #2. High output, but short battery life, good for spotting those high leads 100 feet up the wall. And the number #4? Go for a P3D for the "wow" factor.

You also have answers to the questions about mud, water resistance, etc.

My 2 cents...
 
Thanks for all the information.:) I have got a better grip on all the options now. OF course the brighter the light the better, but water proofness is a factor. most caves here in my state are dry. Runtime is important but if I can get an hour and a half at full power I would be happy. I am leaning towards the Lumapower MRV but I am still looking.

alanmalk,

I have not heard of anybody carrying 2 of the same lights, but I don't see why not........? Good Idea. Expecially getting another Apex because it is such a good Caving light.

Thanks guys, :)

Dan
 
Vader, can you please confirm you're specifically looking for a small hand torch rather than another headlamp? Will you use it just as a backup in the cave or quite regularly for spotting?

Alanmalk, did you have a second complete system for your backup carbide lamp, cylinder and all?
 
I'd rather have a headlamp, or a flashlight light enough to use as a headlamp as a backup. I'd hate to have to choose between holding my light and having both hands free in a cave.
 
Love your apex? Grab an Apex Pro as a backup, it's lighter, and it uses 123a's so you don't have to worry about them running down when you aren't using it.
 
Two of the same light can mean having 3 lights.

light1: say the bulb blows or led blows (it DOES happen!).

light2: has a battery contact fail/switch fail

Put bulb/led/head onto light1 from light2. You're now running on your "third" light. After the batteries are dead, you still have a spare set from the other light, making "four" lights total.




vader said:
... I have not heard of anybody carrying 2 of the same lights, but I don't see why not........? ...
Dan
Click to expand...
 
TorchBoy said:
Vader, can you please confirm you're specifically looking for a small hand torch rather than another headlamp? Will you use it just as a backup in the cave or quite regularly for spotting?

I am looking for a hand tourch. I am happy with the Apex as my main light. Most Colorado caves are small and To much light can be a bad thing. You can easily ruin your night vision and to much light isn't as good as it sounds.

I would use the hand tourch ( my second light source ) just for spotting in big rooms. If it is a regular shape i.e. like a AA-mag light or most other lights it could be attatched to my helmet with a few wire ties using the vent holes. My third light source is a Mag light with a 1 Watt LED. It too can be tied to my helmet for hands free use. My 4th light is usually a Cyclops or a small 1/4 watt LED that I can put on a lanyard or slip into my pocket. Sometimes I even carry a few more light sources just for testing.

Having your hands free for caving is a must. Worst case, I allways carry duct tape so I can tape a light to my helmet if I need to.

Thanks,

Dan
Click to expand...
 
while I suggest anyone a Fenix, I would not do this for serious caving.
better look for real tuff lights from streamlight or Underwater kinetics (or similar)
nothing in metal body and, because of this restriction, nothing in Led and high output class --> plastic cant get heat away in sufficient amount
 
Caver here... You need a headlamp. Get a Princeton Tec Apex Pro and a new Inova XO, that's all you need. A SureFire G3 is also an excellent option.
 
Since I was asked, I will respond but will attempt to stay on-topic.
TorchBoy said:
Alanmalk, did you have a second complete system for your backup carbide lamp, cylinder and all?
Click to expand...
I used cap lamps (2) and carried spare bottoms filled with carbide in my pack. (Justrite and Premier bottoms are interchangable.)
For the non-caver, the spare bottom is the equivalent of a change of batteries, the lamp's energy supply. A "cap lamp" means the energy supply and light emitter are self-contained. The electric "opposite" would be a belt-mounted battery holder with C or D cells and a wire to the helmet.

Someone else mentioned that you could construct a 3'rd lamp from the pieces of #1 and #2. Perhaps - but I always assumed in the worst case my primary lamp would be down a 100' pit under 20' of water. That's when I grab my secondary lamp and keep-on-caving.
 
Outdoors Fanatic said:
Caver here... You need a headlamp. Get a Princeton Tec Apex Pro and a new Inova XO, that's all you need. A SureFire G3 is also an excellent option.
Click to expand...

+1 For these lights. Very bright and rugged. I'm not a caver, but as an outdoorsman, having a headlamp and both hands free for tasks is sure nice. :)
 
Hi Dan, this is my modest arsenal, for large caves i mount the side lights, for tightened caves i use only the homemade headlamp.


 
Where's jtice? He's sure to give suggestions for what you may be looking for.

Enjoy!
 
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