A Collection Of Runtime Graphs

[Alan B]

Unfortunately at this time I don't have any rechargables except Eneloop AAs. Also, my charger only takes AAA and AA; I'll have to look into it. Is there a charger that will take all sizes (RCR123, 17670, AAA thru D)?

Per your suggestions, I'm checking into Google Docs. My first upload removed the graph from the spreadsheet; I'm not sure it supports that function. I might only be able to post the raw data in the spreadsheets. I'll play with it some more tomorrow.

Thanks to all for the support on this, I'm having fun and learning quite a bit.

C.P.T.

Thanks for your effort.

Google docs can be made public readable.

I was thinking of the spreadsheets for the raw data. I don't think they have graphs yet. But I have not looked for that.

Maha makes a charger that will do NiMH C and D, but if you want to handle everything look into an RC charger. I have the Thunderpower TP610C and it will charge just about anything. You do have to work out the battery electrical connection, this can be done with battery holders, clamps, magnets or what-not. Also, most RC chargers run from 12VDC which is good and bad news. You need a power supply at home, but in the field you can charge from the car or other 12VDC source.

 

[BigWaffles]

Ok, I think I've published the raw data for the 6P with the Malkoff M60. Someone try the link and let me know if this works.

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=d2ssg4q_4gmxbcnfm

Here is the full graph in .jpg format.

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=d2ssg4q_0ndn729fp

Apparently I can't publish a spreadsheet. Let me know if this will be useful and I'll post all the raw data & graphs. Thanks.


C.P.T.

 

[Alan B]

Ok, I think I've published the raw data for the 6P with the Malkoff M60. Someone try the link and let me know if this works.

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=d2ssg4q_4gmxbcnfm

Here is the full graph in .jpg format.

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=d2ssg4q_0ndn729fp

Apparently I can't publish a spreadsheet. Let me know if this will be useful and I'll post all the raw data & graphs. Thanks.

C.P.T.

Data and graph look ok.

You might want to use a greater distance so you don't over-range the meter, and to let the beam pattern stabilize. Some folks are using 5 meters, but even 2 meters would be better than one, at least for the tightly focussed beams.

I don't know why you can't share a spreadsheet. It is under Share/Share with the world.

 

[BigWaffles]

Data and graph look ok.

You might want to use a greater distance so you don't over-range the meter, and to let the beam pattern stabilize. Some folks are using 5 meters, but even 2 meters would be better than one, at least for the tightly focussed beams.

I don't know why you can't share a spreadsheet. It is under Share/Share with the world.

When I share a normal document I have an option to publish it. When I click share on an .xls file there is no option to publish it. Not sure what's going on there. I might have to find a hosting site and just throw them out there for download. Do you know anything about Rapidshare?

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by using a greater distance so as not to over-range the meter. I'm using a light box constructed with instructions found on FlashlightReviews.com -http://www.flashlightreviews.com/fea...box_output.htm. Is there another way to test these? Thanks.


C.P.T.

 

[Alan B]

When I share a normal document I have an option to publish it. When I click share on an .xls file there is no option to publish it. Not sure what's going on there. I might have to find a hosting site and just throw them out there for download. Do you know anything about Rapidshare?

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by using a greater distance so as not to over-range the meter. I'm using a light box constructed with instructions found on FlashlightReviews.com -http://www.flashlightreviews.com/fea...box_output.htm. Is there another way to test these? Thanks.


C.P.T.

Perhaps you are in Google documents, I was talking about Google Spreadsheets. Different app.

I forgot you were using a lightbox. For runtimes a beam center lux measurement would also work. I suppose it should be verified, but I think the total flux goes down the same way the central intensity goes down.

I suppose you could also re-range your lightbox by adding some grey patches inside. With LEDs getting brighter you are going to have over-range problems more often.

 

[Alan B]

One nice thing about Google Spreadsheets is that you can add pages to the one workbook for different tests rather than managing a bunch of separate documents (and links).

 

[BigWaffles]

It would interesting to see how Malkoff for 4-6D graph would look like using NiMh D's? Thanks for your work.

I can't thank you enough. I have always wanted to see the runtime for a 3D and 4D maglite with Gene's drop-in installed. Any chance of seeing the runtime of a 3D and 4D with Gene's drop-in powered with NiMH?

Now you have me thinking about rechargables as a cheaper way to feed these lights. I'm about to show my battery ignorance with this next question. I'm assuming that the higher the MAH rating the more energy the battery will store? If so, are these a good start or are there better out there?

http://www.batteryjunction.com/tpeh-td12000.html

Does anybody make an Eneloop equivalent in a 'D' size battery? Also, I'll have to get another Maha charger for the larger cells. Let me research this a bit and see where it goes. Thanks.

Is there any way to add two more sets to this graph:

M60 - 6P - 2xRCR123's and
M60 - 6P - 1x17670.
I've read (& participated in) some debate recently about the viability of running the M60 on a single 17670 - slightly lower output, minimal regulation, long graceful decline on ~1500 total mAh vs the M60 on 2xRCR123's - complete regulation, abrupt shutoff w/ cell protection circuit - 1100 total mAh. I would go out on a limb to suggest that 1x17670 is a more useful configuration imho.

I know your runs are all primary cells but I would find some rechargeable LiIon comparisons very interesting. I would volunteer either but I only have 2x17500, which cannot duplicate the undocumented behavior of the M60 on 1x17670.

Thank you very much for your graphs, very interesting work.

Kestral,

I need to read up on the RCR123s and the 17670s. Would they be usable in a normal CR123A lights or only for certain drop-ins? What charger would they use? I'll keep it in mind for the future but for now I'll probably be keeping to common battery combos. Thanks for the suggestion.

I'm sorry, but I don't know of such a charger, but if you don't mind, I'd wouldn't mind seeing the runtime with 4 eneloops. You say you have only eneloops like it's a bad thing. They're great batteries and I'm currently using four of them in D adapters in a 4D maglite with Gene's older copper heatsink drop-in as my dog walking light and I love it. If I can see the runtime with 4AA 2000mAh NiMH cells, I can use that as a bases of guestimating the runtime I'd see with higher capacity NiMH. At least, that's how it works out in my mind.

JamisonM,

I didn't mean to imply that Eneloops are bad, only that they are the only rechargables that I have at the moment. Probably the best thing to happen for my camera and GPS.

Are you sure you meant 4 AA Eneloops in a 4 D Maglite? Wouldn't that overdraw the cells? Seems to me a 4D Malkoff would put quite a hurt on 4 AA batteries. If you're willing to wait, I'm seriously looking at 'D' NiMHs in the next couple of weeks.


C.P.T.

 

[BigWaffles]

Perhaps you are in Google documents, I was talking about Google Spreadsheets. Different app.

Is there a different link? Google search and the help function in Google Docs both point to docs.google.com for spreadsheets.

I forgot you were using a lightbox. For runtimes a beam center lux measurement would also work. I suppose it should be verified, but I think the total flux goes down the same way the central intensity goes down

I suppose you could also re-range your lightbox by adding some grey patches inside. With LEDs getting brighter you are going to have over-range problems more often.

Acutally I was looking for some sort of dimmer material to put over the lense. It would drop the output to within the range of the meter but still give a good graph of the runtime.


C.P.T.

 

[BigWaffles]

:party:
Ok, I think I figured it out. Apparently I have to open the .xls file to be able to publish it, I can't publish it from the documents listing like the others. Here is the .xls file for the 6P - Malkoff M60 test. Let me know if this is in a useful format.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pZzLlBL6s3xBFo5zMz_PrNw


C.P.T.

 

[greenLED]

:party:
Ok, I think I figured it out. Apparently I have to open the .xls file to be able to publish it, I can't publish it from the documents listing like the others. Here is the .xls file for the 6P - Malkoff M60 test. Let me know if this is in a useful format.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pZzLlBL6s3xBFo5zMz_PrNw


C.P.T.

Nice, BigWaffles!

Is your elapsed time the same for all the lights you're doing? If that's the case, you could have that as your main sorting column, and add a column per light. That way you won't create a file per light, but have all the data in a single file.

Thanks for your hard work! :twothumbs

 

[Bullzeyebill]

C.P.T., go to threads of interest in the Flashlight electronics, Batteries included forum here on CPF, and click on Silverfox's Battery Shoot Out threads. Look at the discharge rates of the various batteries listed. This will give you good info on how batteries respond under load. The Eneloops shown in the NiMh Battery Shoot Out thread are very strong and can sustain fairly high current drain.

Bil

 

[BigWaffles]

Nice, BigWaffles!

Is your elapsed time the same for all the lights you're doing? If that's the case, you could have that as your main sorting column, and add a column per light. That way you won't create a file per light, but have all the data in a single file.

Thanks for your hard work! :twothumbs

greenLED,

Unfortunately the elapsed time isn't the same for all the graphs. Excel can only handle so many horizontal tic marks and the elapsed time allows me reduce that number so the intervals are readable. If you don't want the Time column I can just include the Elapsed Time and LUX columns for each light. Also, Google Docs limits me to 1Mb file size so I can only include so many per file. Shouldn't be too hard to condense the .xls files and then put a single reference post to include all the links. I'll play with it to see what I can do.

C.P.T., go to threads of interest in the Flashlight electronics, Batteries included forum here on CPF, and click on Silverfox's Battery Shoot Out threads. Look at the discharge rates of the various batteries listed. This will give you good info on how batteries respond under load. The Eneloops shown in the NiMh Battery Shoot Out thread are very strong and can sustain fairly high current drain.

Bil

Bullzeyebill,

I've been living on the battery sub-forum since I posted those questions and am learning a lot. I'll check out that thread on the Eneloops. Thanks.


C.P.T.

 

[etc]

RE: Malkoff graphs

Most excellent and eye-opening, thanks.

 

[BigWaffles]

C.P.T.,
Thanks a lot! I think the runtime graph of the Maglite 4D Malkoff is quite revealing.
The bad: regulation is not very flat.
The good: great output and - this is really interesting, I think - it remains at a low level for a looong time. This low level is actually as bright, or brighter, than the 1W nite-ize for a 2AA minimag and this output beats the Nite-ize 10mm dropin for the 2-6cell Maglites.

Thanks, Gene, thanks C.P.T.

These runtime graphs really answered some long-lived questions.

Kind regards,
Joris

22hornet,

Ok, this should be better for regulation. Here is the 6D Maglite with the Malkoff drop-in, I stopped this after 27 hours as it had entered Moon-mode and probably would have continued running for the next couple of weeks. Once in moon-mode the 4D and 6D were almost identical (you can't quite see it but both lights run to the end of the graph).

I'm glad I reran the Malkoff on the 6D Maglite, those extra 2 batteries made a huge difference; 13hrs of very flat runtime before dropping below 13,000Lux.:huh: It would seem that the Malkoffs perform best at or near their max voltage.

C.P.T.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Excellent results using Alkalines. You would probably get similiar, if not better results using six Eneloops in a mag 2D with 2X3 battery holder. Moon mode would be shorter.

Bill

 

[etc]

I have a Malkoff in 3D, how would its graph look? Wonder if I should upgrade to a 4D Malkoff module - do I get both greater runtime _and_ lumens? That's what it looks like from the graphs.

 

[BigWaffles]

I have a Malkoff in 3D, how would its graph look? Wonder if I should upgrade to a 4D Malkoff module - do I get both greater runtime _and_ lumens? That's what it looks like from the graphs.

Etc,

Not sure how the graph would look as they are two different modules. According to Gene's website they both put out appx. 240Lumens at 1000ma. The 3D runs at 1000ma while the 4, 5, & 6D run at 1100ma. The 3D is rated at 6+ hours and the 4D gives 8+ hours of runtime. If that is accurate, and I have no doubt it is, your 3D should be a bit dimmer than the 4D graph (1000ma vs 1100ma). The increase in number of batteries would give greater runtime. That only leaves the question of the initial runtime before it drops to moon-mode.


C.P.T.

 

[etc]

OK thanks

 

[greenLED]

Shouldn't be too hard to condense the .xls files and then put a single reference post to include all the links. I'll play with it to see what I can do.

You're AWESOME!

 

[Phaserburn]

BW, any chance of graphs of the new Rebel Mags, the 2D and MM? I think they are important benchmarks a great many of us would be interested in seeing. It's the only way to see what has really happened in Mag's new redesigns.

Thanks again!