A modder's dilemma

[McGizmo]

A modder\'s dilemma

Hi guys,

I really don't have the time currently to compose this post properly but out of a combination of selfish as well as altruistic reasons, I am going to give it a shot now! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

As a modder, I have ideas that I like to try out and they may run the gambit from silly and stupid to viable and useful. For whatever the reasons or motivations, I find myself inclined to share some of these ideas here on CPF as well as post some on my own web page. First and foremost, I hope to add these ideas to the collective of ideas and work compiled and shared by all of us modders. The potential downside to this sharing is the follow up questions and requests that may arrive in the form of PM's and e-mails and require time and consideration if they are to be answered to any level of comprehension. I believe all parties are best served when most of the follow up communication is based here in the forum where everyone is in a position to add their comments and questions as their time permits and to the benefit to anyone having interest.

Whether a modder has 2 hours a month or is engaged 24/7 in modding and design and building, the available time is finite and limited. One can either "talk" about it or be doing it but not both at the same time! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif A single request or demand in and of itself is certainly no call for it to be ignored or tersely responded to. But the old straw and camel story can apply. There are enough members and lurkers here on CPF that a single member can easily become overwhelmed by the group with no one but that member aware of the situation! I am not suggesting that PM's and E-mails should not be used nor am I suggesting that specific requests or questions can't be conveyed via these non forum avenues of communication. I guess I am suggesting that it is possible that certain communications are ultimately read and considered but perhaps not responded to in a "timely" fashion simply because the person at the other end just doesn't have the time at the moment!

Argh.......... I should try to do this later with a clear mind but there is no telling if or when that might be! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

For what ever reasons, some of the ideas I have had and put into play have been wanted and requested by others. In an attempt to meet these desires as well as a means to devote more time to these interests, I have tried to evolve a small, one man, part time business from this. In order to do this, I have had to try to find some attainable and maintanible scales of economy and limit the actual hands on time required by myself. I am not alone in this and if I were, I would not be wasting the time or bandwidth of CPF on this. To some extent or other I am trying to identify what I perceive as a common "Modder's Dilema" that is well understood by the modders but not by many who would "ask" *whatever* of the modder. Some of us have the time and luxury of responding to any request and we can build or mod regardless of time or efficiency issues. Others of us have to pick and choose where we can viably focus our energies and resources and it is incumbent on us to be very clear about this but our message might get lost and need to be repeated too often. So, I have started this thread and plan to book mark it for linking to in future reference and explaination! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif

So in the future, when I feel overwhelmed (since I am a wuss, it happens to easily!) I will be able to repond quickly to a private communication with something like, "Sorry, no time to discuss at present but please refer to [link to here] for a better understanding.."

If I have agreed to mod or build something for you, I am sure you would rather I was actually working on your project than "talking" about other projects with others! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Realistically, there is a fine balance between actual work in progress and discusion of future work. The problem, at least for me, is that well meaning individuals who I would like to respond to in a timely fashion, have no idea of what the status of this balance is nor do they know if they are alone or in a line with equally deserving individuals! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif If only there were auto responses to e-mails and PM's that stated something like: " We're sorry but so and so can not respond at the moment but you will be answered in the order with which your request was received. The current wait time is....... " ~ or~ " We're sorry but so and so is currently looking for a real life and on top of that, engaged in a comprehensive runtime analysis with beam shots and we expect that he will be able to get back to you n a couple weeks. Since he is a forgetful person, it would be in your best interet to just try again later and not bother with leaving a mesage at present."

Would it be acceptable if I or others who were currently too engaged, to respond with a terse response to an e-mail or PM with something like: "Sorry, too busy at present to respond; please try again x units of time from now."

Well this was too long and poorly thought out but I do think it's safe to suggest that there really is such a thing as a "Modder's Dilemma" and perhaps others can do a more concise job of identifying it and perhaps it can become clear to all concerned that a lack of response or a simple "no" answer is not necessarily what it might at first seem to be about? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

I think one point I was trying to make but failed at is that whenever possible, this forum should be used as the primary means of communication, especially if the content is not of a private nature but more in terms of gathering information or suggestions about certain mod requirements and solutions.

OK, one last shot at the modder's dilemma in a nut shell:

"A modder can either be talking about it, typing about it or actually doing it."

 

[tvodrd]

Re: A modder\'s dilemma

I understand! There are posts I don't make in dread of the result in my PM box, and I'm not looking to make my hobby into a part time business. Unfortunately, it kinda has to go with the territory. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif When you have to say "no," but feel obligated to say it nicely with an explanation, it eats a lot of time, especially if you're "keyboard-challenged" like me.

Larry

 

[jtice]

Re: A modder\'s dilemma

gee, that was alot of reading /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I completely understand Don, you are only one man, and things can pile up very quickly, I dont see where you find the time to do what you do.

Even I, as a very beginner modder, have had requests I simply cant do, and have to turn down due to time/effort involved.

I know what you mena, by wanting to talk about your current mods here, and share things with us, but at the same time, you are afraid there will be a hundred requests to follow.

I for one, am am greatful for all the things you HAVE been able to do for all of us here on CPF. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

-John

 

[bwaites]

Re: A modder\'s dilemma

Boy, do I understand!

Even as a baby modder, I post an idea or two and WHAM, up pop a bunch of questions.

Its Ok for me, but someone with as many ideas and projects as McGizmo or MrBulk must get hammered!

Thanks for all you HAVE done!!

Bill

 

[MR Bulk]

Re: A modder\'s dilemma

Actually I have a laptop w/RoadRunner cable connection at my modding workbench as well as a custom made split headset with dual wires for my cellphone and home phone, with one earpiece connected to each. There have been times when I was soldering, typing, AND talking to two people simultaneously!

But seriously a well-made point is presented here, and although there are those who will privately ask me about something totally innocuously, the vast majority have been trained (whipped?) into submission and tend to post on the applicable thread/s regarding whatever project/s I am working on currently.

The secret though is to visit, AND RESPOND TO, those threads early and often to address inquiries as well as keep erroneous rumors at bay!

Just muh unsolicited two cents... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

 

[BentHeadTX]

Re: A modder\'s dilemma

I am generally too lazy to PM/email folks asking questions...I prefer to ask in public. That way I get at least 10 opinions that I am a bonehead and should not reproduce. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Your idea is a sound one. You can either responde to dozens of emails/PMs or get the mods done. I vote for mods!

 

[McGizmo]

Re: A modder\'s dilemma

Charlie,

Good points and your 2 cents certainly were solicited! I agree that a current project can be handled and managed in a currently running thread and open communication and visits as required help it run smoothly. Any private e-mails or PM's regarding said projects are also manageable and typically part of the process.

I suppose I should have been more specific and highlighted the fact that I personally run into more difficulties when the requests or interests and content has to do with mods, builds or ideas that are NOT part of any current offering but rather based on other past or present areas of interest or exploration.

And guys, I am not seeking any thanks here or comments of appreciation! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif I really just want to at least try to identify what I have termed a modder's dillema and hopefully instill some understanding for any of the interested parties.

I personally could cut back on unsolicited contacts (which are not necessarily un wanted but sometimes, untimely)If I were to remove my CPF web page and not post anymore on designs and ideas that I have or have visited. I could limit my exposure on CPF to just items that I am currently offering for sale which hopefully offer value for the hard earned money they would be purchased with. Now on some very basic levels, that just seems wrong and not in the spirit of what has made CPF important to me!

 

[Fitz]

Re: A modder\'s dilemma

Don, Sounds like you need your own forum under the Dealer/Manufaturer heading. You could then have people post if they were interested in something and have a record and timeline of the request to check when you have time. Also, when you have a project such as the McE2S or TK items it would be much easier to update and keep track of comments or transactions. Plus, we could bug you about projects without filling up your inbox!

 

[alanhuth]

Re: A modder\'s dilemma

I think the easiest solution is for you Modders to simply state what the rules are for interacting with you. And for you to ignore (or deal with as you choose, such as Don's boilerplate response) any communications that don't follow the protocol you have set out. We need you more than you need any one of us. If somebody gets annoyed, eventually they will find the "instruction sheet" and hopefully they will understand. If not, too bad. It's better for a flashoholic customer to get annoyed than it is for a modder to become so fed up that they stop offering us the benefit of their labors of love.
The only caveat is this: once a person has sent money, even if it's a small fraction of the value of what they will get, the equation changes. I would suggest that you modders consider a different level of responsiveness to people who have already sent money, but not received product, than people who are just asking questions.

 

[Wolfen]

Re: A modder\'s dilemma

I can just picture it. Thousands of red-eyed and drooling flasholics hitting the send button on their e-mail like crack addicted lab rats pushing the fix button on their dope machines and Don's on the receiveing end it.

Tim writes this after sending Don the third e-mail of the day;)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif

 

[McGizmo]

Re: A modder\'s dilemma

alanhuth,

Good points and I considered a long time ago putting some type of "modder's policies and offers" type of thread in this forum where each modder could have an editable post stating what they offered and how they would like to process interests and requests. At the time, I think I decided it was way to presumptious of me to think anyone else would want such a thread and I never got around to posting it. I am likely presumptious as heck with this thread as well but felt some need to comment in light of an on going *personal problem* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif . In regards to your comment about commerce, I personally feel that many of us have obligations to communicate with eachother before and regardless if any commerce is to result. It is these perceived obligations which I have been addressing. Certainly if some money or even promise of money has entered into the picture. An open avenue of communication is to be expected and rightfully demanded at some point! I hope this particular thread can stear clear of what I consider to be an anomoly and abberation that is currently of topical interest elsewhere.

 

[Icebreak]

Re: A modder\'s dilemma

I screwed up once.

I sent an email to two of the more famous modders letting them know that a fairly new part was being offered by a third modder.

After two days and no response I sent an email follow up something like this: "What's the problem boyz? This is such a great part. It would increase the efficiency of your lights. Don't you know that I'm very special? Where's the dadgum love anyway?"

The returns were immediate and polite. Basically they indicated the email traffic they had was enormous and the part was not of much interest to them. That is why neither responded to the initial email rapidly. Further, nicely stated by one, was this advice: If there is a part that is of interest to you, purchase it, send it and I will be glad to evaluate it when time permits. Well, it doesn't get much better than that. That is an invitation to participate in a contributive way.

I think modders make posts of their creations to share with the rest of us what can be done. Sometime certain criteria are met and they then can let us buy some of their creations.

That said,

Mr. Bulk - Would you please install a TWAK I have in my LGI 2 next weekend? Oh, and while you're at it, magic up an adapter and stick a BBH on it. If you have some extra time, please make it rechargeable. I'll need a runtime chart, of course.

Or, please continue your attentive responses to your LionHeart as I enjoy reading about it.

tvodrd - To heck with everybody else. I'll just send you a fat check for your latest five Ti, bronze, tungsten, brass, and NatHAIII CR2s. Our little secret, eh?

Or, please continue freaking out the other MasterModMen with your incredible torchwork. I love it when you do that.

To the rest of you modders - (jtice, bwaites and others)

You should build exactly what I want when I want it. Forget college and careers.

Or you could just continue dazzling my brain with your ideas and subsequent iterations.

Oh yes, I almost forgot. What's that surfer dude's name?

McGizmo - Could you please stop your creative process and Ti coat my TK McLux? While you're at it, go ahead and whip up a black and gold tuxedo McPorsche puppy for me. Beamshots would be nice and August would be good with my schedule. Yeah, that would be great.

Or, could you continue to fascinate the CPF with your light wizardry occasionally offering ownership when you deem it to be feasible? Your choice. I'll support your decision.

- Jeff

 

[treek13]

Re: A modder\'s dilemma

[ QUOTE ]
McGizmo said:
Would it be acceptable if I or others who were currently too engaged, to respond with a terse response to an e-mail or PM with something like: "Sorry, too busy at present to respond; please try again x units of time from now."

[/ QUOTE ]
Strictly from an etiquette standpoint, there would be nothing wrong with doing this at all. Personally, I think it would be pretty polite of you to take the time even to make the short reply.

In fact, for the sake of your sanity (and I've seen the picture of you in the dive helmet - so trust me you should be concerned with what sanity you have left /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ), I would strongly recommend saving the text from such an e-mail to use as sort of a stock reply and consider leaving the part out about "please try again x units of time from now".

If Charlie's advice is only worth two cents then mine must have a negative value, just let me know how much I owe you for giving it and I'll post a check promptly. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
Pat

 

[eebowler]

Re: A modder\'s dilemma

[ QUOTE ]
treek13 said:
I would strongly recommend saving the text from such an e-mail to use as sort of a stock reply and consider leaving the part out about "please try again x units of time from now".


[/ QUOTE ]

treek13 you read my mind even before I had the thought. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

 

[Ginseng]

Whose problem is it, really?

Isn't this the real essence of what you're asking? Just whose problem is it when ideas and desires present themselves either here in the open or in direct communication? Under the right confluence of time, resource and capability, it can be a problem that is delightful, challenging, significant (in terms of contribution) and, most relevant your original post, desired.

When some or all of the above factors are lacking, it can become a problem that can lead to mutual miscommunication, frustration and other ill feelings. This is especially true when ideas might surface at some later time, when promised mods arrive hideously late or not at all or when one or both parties end up being rude or disrespectful.

If you feel you are being put upon, then find a way to deal with it because it's that (specific) modder's dilemma and challenge. Withdraw, alter the write/talk/build balance or make more time. Or better yet, become more efficient. For example, if you have a lot going on, why not start a thread and use it as a blog? Make the terms of posting clear and simple, for example: "I will post my ideas and thoughts here. You can post your questions and responses. Any extraneous posting can and will be deleted to keep this thread as to the point as possible."

Many brains will always be smarter than one brain. Many brains will always be able to come up with more possibilities than one brain. Many brains will always result in less efficient and precise communication than one brain. Many brains will always be more circumspect than one brain. This is the other essential nature of the "dilemma." The community here is a resource that can be harnessed should we chose to do so. It is frankly our responsibility to do just that since there will always be newbies or people looking into things they had never cared about before. If you chose to propel yourself into the front ranks of modders either in terms of creativity or output, then you should be prepared to deal with all that comes along with that. I think that posting here is a great way to get the various minds here thinking about some potential solutions or mechanisms to help not just you, but other established and budding modders as well.

I am just a casual modder but I've had my share of inquiries and I can empathize. I'd love to think that any given member will have completely researched their question before PM'ing me but that ain't gonna happen...well, except for "udaman." Sometimes it sucks and I end up answering repetitive questions but I'm trying to find a way. For example, a website devoted to hotwire issues including an exhaustive table of bulb and battery combinations.

Wilkey

 

[js]

Re: Whose problem is it, really?

Don,

Just a quick affirmation: your boilerplate email response idea is just fine. There is nothing wrong with this solution.

Also, I for one appreciate the posting of simple ideas and visions for the future; possibilites and intiguing combinations. This is good and is part of what is so great about CPF. So, whatever you need to do to keep doing that, I think is probably worth it.

I also think the sticky thread topic w/ different modders policies, procedures and preferences is a good and not a pretentious idea.

 

[AlphaTea]

Re: Whose problem is it, really?

Don,
While I do not consider myself worthy of standing in your shadow, I do understand your position. Human nature has always demanded much from creative genius's.
You got it, they want it, and they want it now. The more you supply, the greater the demand. You can only give so much blood before you pass out. At the risk of being banned or lynched I have a couple of suggestions for you.
Secretary.
Sabbatical.
Dan

 

[dat2zip]

Re: Whose problem is it, really?

Maybe, part of the problem I see here is once something is posted it is considered a design. A design in my eyes is something that will be produced at least more than one. This can be an imediate disconnect between the creator (modder) and the receiving party (CPF).

I think if we can create at least two distint mod style posts, one "design" and one "idea".

Concepts or ideas are just that. Something scratched on a piece of paper or a clay model. Concepts have no relationship to being produced. Concepts can die or turn into a full fledged design.

If one posted a Concept or idea, the rules can be clearly stated that modders shall not be contacted over production of ideas or concepts. I think this is a clear statement and can avoid many PMs or emails up front unless stated otherwise in the original post.

What works for one person may not work for others.

I do agree that monitoring CPF daily is almost mandated and replying to posts as soon as possible maintains some of the best communications.

I try to check CPF twice daily.

Monitoring CPF, IM and email all take there toll in time management. A modder must come up with a system that works for him/her and possibly state that up front or possibly their statement could be included in their profile.

In the profile, it could be stated the best way to communicate with me is via "phone", "email", "PM", or via IM "what service and user name". It could also clearly state please don't contact me regarding ideas or concepts.

Any additional statements could be put in the profile to hel p steer any CPF'er who desires to contact you.

Wayne

*edited*

Thinking about this some more, CPF'ers must also be aware that it's 1000:1 ratio of CPF'ers to Modders. If every CPF'er emailed a modder his email account would get shut down or overloaded. I think it's the CPF'ers responsibility to ask here on CPF first and if no other CPF'er responds, posts or can answer and there are no other means to get the answer the last resort is to contact the modder. Emailing questions direct to the modders should be the last resort, not the first resort. Please take this into consideration.

More often than not, questions asked here can be anwered by other CPF'ers.

 

[McGizmo]

Re: A modder\'s dilemma

Thanks for the comments and ideas guys. What do you think of a "Directory of Modder's Services" placed as a sticky in the modder's B/S/T forum? I see it as a directory where anyone offering to do mods/ builds can keep their "yellow page ad" current. It would not be a thread for discussions or Q&A but simply a resource list. A modder could link to both off Forum web pages as well as CPF discussion threads.

I often get E-mails wanting to know if I will do a certain Arc mod or KL1 mod and I am always telling the person that I am not interested or up to speed on these and that they should place a "wanted" in the modder's B/S/T. It might serve all parties better if I could direct them to an on forum directory. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

I think the some of the real problems are for the newbies and casual lurkers who decide that they want to be up to speed and are daunted by the overwhelming mass and volume of information here on CPF. I don't fault them for going for a direct approach by contacting some of us who they have found who seem to have been engaged in the areas of interest.

Here's a composite "typical" e-mail:

"Hi, I am new to LED lights and I have now looked at your web page and scanned CPF. I am not comfortable joining CPF yet because I know so little. In the mean time, I am looking for a very bright LED light with long run time. What suggestions do you have and can I buy one from you. Thank you for your time and any information you can provide...."

Now a short answer will definitely work for us modders but dang! I feel bad about turning my back on someone wanting to learn about this subject that is of interest to us all! I know we have CPF posting rules and guide lines but I wonder if some CPF site map and/or Newbie's Survival Guide and Suggested Ettiquite(sp) wouldn't be helpful? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

 

[jtice]

Re: A modder\'s dilemma

Don, I really like the idea of a yellow pages for modders.
This allows the users to see who is good at what type of mods.

That would save a good bit of time, I see alot of ppl asking who can do certain mods, and I also see alot of redirecting to other ppl better suited for that perticular mod.

I also think there should be a "Newbie Section"
Just about any other forum I goto has one,
It would be a great place to list information on the certain aspects of lights, and mods.
IE: Lists of informative pages/sites for Bin codes, converter specs, help selecting a converter, what setup is good for what, who and where to go to buy certain parts, and just a general overal set of things a Newbie would end up asking.

I see alot of the same things asked here by Newbies, which is understandable,
Having a section, that they can go readup on things, and learn the basics would really help them out, vs. them asking, and searching.

So, Sasha, what ya think, time for a Newbie section? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

-John