A2 improvement or is mine just defective? [pics]

[Illum]

I recieved a new generation A2 from a fellow user and immediately started to do some comparison with my old square bodied A2

the minute I loaded new batteries to both was this surprise how bright the new LEDs are....
heres some pics [Left for new right for old]

normal exposure about 12 inches from desk
doesnt show much other than the new leds are greenish and appear brighter than the typical nichia tint
well, heres the same pic 2 stops underexposure

notice the new ones brighter than the old?

A few days ago I noticed new batteries turn to 20% on my ZTS after only 20 minutes of full xenon use contrary to the 45 minute curve on quickbeam's plot.

upon curiosity I've shot a pic of the xenons on at 2 stops underexposure


the new ones whiter....
I rarely use the xenon bulb on my old A2 and upon close inspection no cloud or tunsten buildup was found

so....whats the story here fellas? has the new A2 improved or was my old one defective?

[maybe OT]
I thought the LEDs looked very very similar to my X5 so I decided to take a few more shots...
normal exposure A2 vs X5

well...maybe its my eyes, as I cant tell the difference except the X5s beam is more rounder

2 stops underexposure A2 vs X5

ah here we are...

conclusion: I need new glasses
[maybe OT]

 

[Gunner12]

How old is the older one? Maybe the LEDs faded with use.

 

[Illum]

erm, dunno
bought secondhand years ago, 4 flat side/square body, A31798, came in a box

new ones also secondhand, round body with three fluted sides, A67643, came in the new 2007 flat packaging

 

[Atomic_Chicken]

Greetings!

How old is the older one? Maybe the LEDs faded with use.

That would be my guess. It appears that Surefire is overdriving the Nichia LEDs used in Surefire A2 Aviator flashlights, at least that's what I'm seeing based on the resistor values they're using. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the constant over-current dims the LEDs over time.

Best wishes,
Bawko

 

[Illum]

mmhmm it makes sense
Most of my uses with the A2 is with LED...which overtime wear and tear on overdriving...

 

[IsaacHayes]

and when the incan is on, the leds are on too.

 

[greenLED]

People have been asking me about brightness differences since I did the A2 LED review, but none of the white A2's I've seen have been different. That said, none were "new" (as in out-of-the-box), although I've compared square to round bodies.

I can think of 2 explanations for the difference:

- LED's degrading over time like Bawko suggested in your thread (quite possible)

- SF is using newer Nichia ranks; they've denied it every time I've asked, BUT unless they are sitting on a million BS rank LEDs, they should switching to new ranks at some point... right?



Thanks for sharing. I'm off to post this on your thread and link it to my review.

 

[ebow86]

I have a newer round body Aviator, and I received my older 4 flats short clip aviator in the mail just this morning. It's still daylight but I have done a quick comparison just now.

There is no doubt in my mind that Surefire is using newer LED's in these newer round body's. The LED's on the older 4 flats are not only much dimmer, but they put out a completely different tint than the newer A2's. I know there's a tint lottery, however, when comparing the LED's my results are 100% exactly like the OP's results above. The older 4 flats is much bluer and dimmer, whereas the newer aviator is much brighter and the tint is more towards green with a little blue mixed in.

I can't rule out that the difference in brightness is because of the LED's being overdriven for long periods, but when comparing them, I know what my instinct is telling me. FWIW I have never run the newer aviator on RCR's and I can't confirm whether or not the 4 flats have, though judging by the seller's types of responses on Ebay, I kind of doubt it.

So I just wanted to post here and confirm what my preliminary results are. Once it gets dark I will compare the incandescent lamps as well, to confirm whether or not these newer aviators are driving the lamp any harder, which has been suggested.

 

[ebow86]

Alright, I just came in from outside after doing some comparison test's. Unfortunately I don't have the capability to do beamshots, so I have no way of proving what I observed, so take my observations for what you will.

Fresh Surefire CR123's were used in both lights for this test.

The newer round body LED's are roughly twice as bright as the 4 flat's are, it's very noticeable. The tint of the four flats LED's is blueish with slight purple, whereas the round body's are best described as slightly "sea green" if you will, but much brighter. If you observe the first photograph comparison that Illum provided, I would say that the comparison between my two lights is a 100% match to what he observed. What this tells me is that it is highly unlikely that both of our older 4 flats aviators have been overdriven and faded to the point where we both have the same exact results when comparing the two styles. It has been speculated many times, including within this very thread, that there are 2 possibilities, either the LED's are being overdriven to the point that they are dimming significantly, or, the most likely scenario in my personal opinion, is that SF is using newer Nichia ranks as pointed out by greenLED. The results after tonights testing, combined with Illum's own observations, leads me to the conclusion that Surefire has indeed updated the LED's with newer bins/ranks.

And after comparing the incandescent beams of both models, I can not detect the slightest difference between the two. Switching batteries and lamps provided the same results. I am not sure what the issue was in regards to Illum's comparison of the incandescent beams, I suspect he may have been experiencing a battery issue. In my personal opinion, there is no difference in the brightness of the incandescent mode between the two models. Unfortunately, as I have stated, I cannot provide beamshots to back up my observations, again, take them for what you will.

What is interesting to note is that the two models I'm comparing, each are on the far end of the A2 Aviators production cycle. The 4 flats is the short clip version with serial#A03204, indicating it is indeed one of the earliest models, and most likely features the earliest bin of Nichia LED's. The round body was bought strait from Surefire just before production ceased, and is most certainly one of the last batches made, serial#85868, so again, it is likely that it is using the latest bin of Nichia LED's.

So what you have is roughly 8 years, give or take, between the production of the Nichia LED's between these 2 models. It would not be a stretch to believe that the reason the newer A2's are much brighter is due to the bin/ranks of the LED's being newer and improving over time. This seems like a much more likely explanation than the overdriving/dimming theory.

FWIW

 

[Size15's]

SureFire updated the A2's LEDs. Simples as that.

 

[ebow86]

SureFire updated the A2's LEDs. Simples as that.

Yes, I agree, however, the reason I made the post is because this has never been confirmed before, the speculation has always been either an update to the LED's or the LED's dimming over time due to overdriving. No one ever gave an adequate anwser to the debate. I believe that I have found that anwser.

 

[ampdude]

Yep, he's just seeing the improved brightness of the white LED's appearing to make the incan beam "whiter". And the LED's do of course dim over time.

Rechargeables in the A2 will drive the LED's a little harder, but I've never experienced or read of any LED failures because of this. An LED ring replacement is/was easy enough to do however if something did happen.

 

[ebow86]

Yep, he's just seeing the improved brightness of the white LED's appearing to make the incan beam "whiter". And the LED's do of course dim over time.

Rechargeables in the A2 will drive the LED's a little harder, but I've never experienced or read of any LED failures because of this. An LED ring replacement is/was easy enough to do however if something did happen.

Yes LED's do dim over time, especially when overdriven, but that's not why the old A2's seem so much dimmer than the new one's. That's the only point I wanted to make. The discussion of old vs new A2's have been discussed many times over the years in several threads, with different theory's as to why the new A2's LED's were so much brighter, and seeing as I now finally had the capability to do my own testing of the old vs new, I wanted to post my observations to the best of my ability without any form of beamshots and attempt to settle the question that was being raised once and for all.