R
RCmfg
Guest
Since both my company and my name have appeared in this CPF thread I shall reply to the accusations made against me. I do not need any more anonymous phone threats against me or my company for some horrible thing that I am supposed to have done. I realize that spontaneous actions in defense of someone that you have known for some time is natural, and I do not condemn their actions or hold it against them. That is why I think that you should hear the other side of the story.
This June will begin my 30th year of continuous ownership of R & C Mfg. Inc. R & C Mfg. is a contract machine shop that specializes in small lot CNC milling and turning in the 1000 to 30,000 piece quantities. Since we have been around for a relatively long time, we are known by a fairly large number of people and engineers in the manufacturing field in Phoenix. Some of our customers have been with us for over 25 years.
About 3 years ago a young man came to us with an idea for a product that he wanted to have us produce. This is not an unusual request in that it happens all the time. Most are ideas that do not have a realistic chance in the market, and we have indicated that to many, that they forget about what they want to do, and save their money. This particular product had merit. A sample that had been machined by a small shop, a circuit board with an LED attached, and a crude, hand drawn sketch was presented.
We were asked to design and make machine drawings for production of the mechanical parts and to make a small production run. When I design, call out dimensions, thread specifications and overall mechanical requirements on my drawings with my company name on the prints, that becomes what is referred to in the business as ownership of intellectual property. My designs are never sold or transferred to anyone without a contract prior to starting of the design process. In this case there was no contract that any of my designs were to be owned by anyone other than my company.
We made several small production runs until both parties were satisfied with both the dimensions and quality of the product. Sales increased because of the utility and quality of the product. We were asked to provide increasing numbers of product and at the same time our long time customers were also increasing their quantity orders. This presented a production problem in the number of units that we could produce.
We informed this young individual that the only way that we could meet his requirements was to bring in a new machine dedicated to his product. He was informed that we had to make a minimum of 4000 units per month to cover the cost of the machine. This was verbally agreed to and he stated this would be a starting quantity and the quantities would go up from there. This machine is capable of producing over 20,000 units, (40,000 pieces), per month. After getting the down payment of $18,000.00 and first and last months lease payments totaling another $7,600.00 together, the machine was finally delivered five months later.
After getting the machine running we made about 2000 units, and then another 3000. The next month the order was for 2000 more. Then nothing the next month. Then about a 1000. The machine has made an average of 1300 units per month since it arrived. Or a loss to my company of about $3000.00 per month for about a year and a half. During that time the money owed to my company for both the original product and a larger, more powerful product delivered has at times exceeded $30,000.00 and way over 90 days. I still have hundreds of larger parts that were ordered and requested to hold onto, some of these parts are over a year old. I have material cost, labor cost and anodizing charges sitting here.
We had requested that the product be made in Brass as a way to increase sales. Rejected. We had also submitted six other designs. Rejected. We developed a AA design and submitted the actual parts. Rejected, then reconsidered. A sample run of 300 units was made and delivered. This soon became a standard product. All of this was done by us to help increase sales, with no development charges to him.
Through begging we have been able to get the back charges owed to us down to almost a third of the original outstanding invoices. This has taken most of a year. Since I own this company, I am the one that has to miss getting a paycheck.
Late last year we had some of the larger sized machined parts out for anodizing, when we were informed by the anodizer that they refused to anodize those parts. We had to pick them up and have them done somewhere else. About three weeks later the outside salesperson from the company that had refused to anodize any more parts for us, stopped by to apologize. The salesperson informed us that we were not the reason for the rejection. The anodizing company was partially owned by another contract machine shop and they would not allow the parts that we made for this young man’s company to be anodized. He supposedly owed them too much money and was refusing to pay his bill of multiple tens of thousands of dollars.
At this same time we were still owed several tens of thousands of dollars for product we had delivered. His contention was that the work done by the other machine shop was of poor quality. In our business it is standard practice that, if we make bad parts, we remake and replace.
Soon after this anodizing situation became history, we were asked to quote on machining the parts for a computerized do-everything wiz-bang that this young man’s company was developing. We handed in the quotes and we were given a purchase order to make 1200 sets of this new product, but to hold up for the latest revision. After the third revision and several months later, we were informed that another company in Nogales was about four dollars cheaper than us. Then we were asked if we could we reduce our price to match theirs? We declined and told them to have the other company machine the new design. We couldn’t see ourselves increasing the debt owed to us, and we had, in our opinion, given the best quote possible.
We have found out that the other company making the computerized do-everything wiz-bang machine parts is not located in Nogales, Arizona, but in Nogales, Mexico. No wonder their quote was less than ours! We also suspect that the monies owed to us and the other contract machine shops here in Phoenix, has by us not getting paid, financed that computerized do-everything wiz-bang that you all think so highly of. Banks do not make machine parts, and machine shops do not make loans. Or so I’ve been told.
Because special batteries are no longer available from the young man’s company, has the battery supplier been paid? And who else has been held up in getting monies? Electronic board supplier? Anodizer? The Mexico based machine shop? The engineer that designed the wiz-bang? The legal service handling his law suits? The list may be a long one.
It has been stated on this thread that he is having my design redesigned by his engineer. If he does not have a contract that the new design belongs to this young man’s company, than the intellectual property is owned by the engineer and he may at any time present a cease and desist letter to stop manufacture and sales. This engineer and his company have copyright notices on all of the prints I have seen in regards to the wiz-bang. If this is the case, he may also at any time do what he wants with the property, including selling it to another company for cash, and royalties on every wiz-bang sold.
I believe that my company has been more than fair in trying to see that this young man’s venture succeed, but I can no longer afford to continue this relationship. I have some of the product in house here for secondary finishing that I am holding on to. It will be released only when the total bill owed to my company has been paid for product already delivered. If not paid in 30 days from the date of this posting, all the parts that I have machined for him will go into the recycle bin. This also includes several hundred 2 AA and single CR-123 compartments in both styles, and over 1400 AAA compartments and 600 heads.
<font color="blue">I think it is due time that this young man quit telling you people lies and start telling you the truth rather then going on here and bashing the people that have helped him and causing harm to them personally.</font>
<font color="red">AND TO THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN CALLING AND HARASSING MY FAMILY. NOW THAT YOU KNOW THE FULL TRUTH PLEASE STOP!</font>
If any one person causes one of my family members harm from this ( Like an old man having a heart attack from being upset ) I will get an attorney involved to go after all parties. So if you truly do care want happens to this young man and others, stop at once!
My business is to make parts for who ever wants precision machine parts and can pay for them.
Thank you,
Curt
President - R & C Mfg. Inc.
This June will begin my 30th year of continuous ownership of R & C Mfg. Inc. R & C Mfg. is a contract machine shop that specializes in small lot CNC milling and turning in the 1000 to 30,000 piece quantities. Since we have been around for a relatively long time, we are known by a fairly large number of people and engineers in the manufacturing field in Phoenix. Some of our customers have been with us for over 25 years.
About 3 years ago a young man came to us with an idea for a product that he wanted to have us produce. This is not an unusual request in that it happens all the time. Most are ideas that do not have a realistic chance in the market, and we have indicated that to many, that they forget about what they want to do, and save their money. This particular product had merit. A sample that had been machined by a small shop, a circuit board with an LED attached, and a crude, hand drawn sketch was presented.
We were asked to design and make machine drawings for production of the mechanical parts and to make a small production run. When I design, call out dimensions, thread specifications and overall mechanical requirements on my drawings with my company name on the prints, that becomes what is referred to in the business as ownership of intellectual property. My designs are never sold or transferred to anyone without a contract prior to starting of the design process. In this case there was no contract that any of my designs were to be owned by anyone other than my company.
We made several small production runs until both parties were satisfied with both the dimensions and quality of the product. Sales increased because of the utility and quality of the product. We were asked to provide increasing numbers of product and at the same time our long time customers were also increasing their quantity orders. This presented a production problem in the number of units that we could produce.
We informed this young individual that the only way that we could meet his requirements was to bring in a new machine dedicated to his product. He was informed that we had to make a minimum of 4000 units per month to cover the cost of the machine. This was verbally agreed to and he stated this would be a starting quantity and the quantities would go up from there. This machine is capable of producing over 20,000 units, (40,000 pieces), per month. After getting the down payment of $18,000.00 and first and last months lease payments totaling another $7,600.00 together, the machine was finally delivered five months later.
After getting the machine running we made about 2000 units, and then another 3000. The next month the order was for 2000 more. Then nothing the next month. Then about a 1000. The machine has made an average of 1300 units per month since it arrived. Or a loss to my company of about $3000.00 per month for about a year and a half. During that time the money owed to my company for both the original product and a larger, more powerful product delivered has at times exceeded $30,000.00 and way over 90 days. I still have hundreds of larger parts that were ordered and requested to hold onto, some of these parts are over a year old. I have material cost, labor cost and anodizing charges sitting here.
We had requested that the product be made in Brass as a way to increase sales. Rejected. We had also submitted six other designs. Rejected. We developed a AA design and submitted the actual parts. Rejected, then reconsidered. A sample run of 300 units was made and delivered. This soon became a standard product. All of this was done by us to help increase sales, with no development charges to him.
Through begging we have been able to get the back charges owed to us down to almost a third of the original outstanding invoices. This has taken most of a year. Since I own this company, I am the one that has to miss getting a paycheck.
Late last year we had some of the larger sized machined parts out for anodizing, when we were informed by the anodizer that they refused to anodize those parts. We had to pick them up and have them done somewhere else. About three weeks later the outside salesperson from the company that had refused to anodize any more parts for us, stopped by to apologize. The salesperson informed us that we were not the reason for the rejection. The anodizing company was partially owned by another contract machine shop and they would not allow the parts that we made for this young man’s company to be anodized. He supposedly owed them too much money and was refusing to pay his bill of multiple tens of thousands of dollars.
At this same time we were still owed several tens of thousands of dollars for product we had delivered. His contention was that the work done by the other machine shop was of poor quality. In our business it is standard practice that, if we make bad parts, we remake and replace.
Soon after this anodizing situation became history, we were asked to quote on machining the parts for a computerized do-everything wiz-bang that this young man’s company was developing. We handed in the quotes and we were given a purchase order to make 1200 sets of this new product, but to hold up for the latest revision. After the third revision and several months later, we were informed that another company in Nogales was about four dollars cheaper than us. Then we were asked if we could we reduce our price to match theirs? We declined and told them to have the other company machine the new design. We couldn’t see ourselves increasing the debt owed to us, and we had, in our opinion, given the best quote possible.
We have found out that the other company making the computerized do-everything wiz-bang machine parts is not located in Nogales, Arizona, but in Nogales, Mexico. No wonder their quote was less than ours! We also suspect that the monies owed to us and the other contract machine shops here in Phoenix, has by us not getting paid, financed that computerized do-everything wiz-bang that you all think so highly of. Banks do not make machine parts, and machine shops do not make loans. Or so I’ve been told.
Because special batteries are no longer available from the young man’s company, has the battery supplier been paid? And who else has been held up in getting monies? Electronic board supplier? Anodizer? The Mexico based machine shop? The engineer that designed the wiz-bang? The legal service handling his law suits? The list may be a long one.
It has been stated on this thread that he is having my design redesigned by his engineer. If he does not have a contract that the new design belongs to this young man’s company, than the intellectual property is owned by the engineer and he may at any time present a cease and desist letter to stop manufacture and sales. This engineer and his company have copyright notices on all of the prints I have seen in regards to the wiz-bang. If this is the case, he may also at any time do what he wants with the property, including selling it to another company for cash, and royalties on every wiz-bang sold.
I believe that my company has been more than fair in trying to see that this young man’s venture succeed, but I can no longer afford to continue this relationship. I have some of the product in house here for secondary finishing that I am holding on to. It will be released only when the total bill owed to my company has been paid for product already delivered. If not paid in 30 days from the date of this posting, all the parts that I have machined for him will go into the recycle bin. This also includes several hundred 2 AA and single CR-123 compartments in both styles, and over 1400 AAA compartments and 600 heads.
<font color="blue">I think it is due time that this young man quit telling you people lies and start telling you the truth rather then going on here and bashing the people that have helped him and causing harm to them personally.</font>
<font color="red">AND TO THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN CALLING AND HARASSING MY FAMILY. NOW THAT YOU KNOW THE FULL TRUTH PLEASE STOP!</font>
If any one person causes one of my family members harm from this ( Like an old man having a heart attack from being upset ) I will get an attorney involved to go after all parties. So if you truly do care want happens to this young man and others, stop at once!
My business is to make parts for who ever wants precision machine parts and can pay for them.
Thank you,
Curt
President - R & C Mfg. Inc.
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