NewBie said:This event was complete with explosion and fireball:
Look around post 647 for more pictures and details:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1492092#post1492092
Well I for one don't plan let alone know how I would put this example in my pocket to start with!! At this point in time, I have been convinced that I have no interest in pocketing or carrying a 2xCR123 incan light hosting BS cells of mixed condition; one fresh and fully charged, the other partially depleted. To take this further, I have no intention of knowingly carrying or pocketing any 2xCR123 light with mixed condition cells regardless of manufacture and regardless of light engine composition. This latter comment only seems reasonable and prudent and has been cautioned against for quite some time.
I have done numerous constant on run time tests with many of my 2xCR123 lights where the light reached operating temps, especially near end of battery life, that were well in excess of what I considered or felt (literally) to be reasonable or advisable. Perhaps I have just been lucky or perhaps the lights tested were somehow or for some yet to be identified reason, below any event threshold. All of these runtime tests involved SF CR123 cells fresh, but not metered, from a box.
For those who truely understand the physics and chemistry involved, I expect a fair set of precursors to an event are understood and a threshold can be identified and designs and or suggestions of proper usage can allow users to use well below any threshold. Unfortunately no one with those qualifications has bothered to enlighten us at this point.
Empath has pointed out that there are no battery manufactures endorcing the use of CR123's in high power flashlights. By the same token, I am not aware of any of these manufactures cautioning against or seeking restriction of use of these cells from such an application. Perhaps they are happy having their cake and eat it too at present?
Is there an intrinsic and unsafe condition in general with using CR123 batteries in flashlights? I have not been convinced that this is the case. Is there a possible set of conditions or precursors that would allow an event to occur with CR123 cells and flashlights? I would say so! I think we have seen pictures to support this!!
To my knowledge, SF pioneered the use of CR123 cells in flashlights. I believe they have a sizeable database of information regarding the science and R&D of mating CR123 cells with highpower flashlights. We have heard of reported events involvng both SF lights as well as SF cells. We are not necessarily aware of the actual conditions leading up to these reported events nor do we know of extenuating circumstances that might have been at play or what the statistical significance of any justified events may be. By justified event, I mean one that is not a result of missuse or abuse.
SF may have pioneered the CR123 flashlight but at this point, the market is shared by many many other players and manufacturers of both lights and batteries. I was cautioned early on by a friend at SF that not all CR123 batteries should be considered safe in use with highpowered flashlights. He also cautioned me against mixing cells in any multi cell light. He went on to convince me that I really needed to be careful if I wanted to mess with any Li-Ion systems!! This caution was so great that I still haven't embraced this technology to the extent that many have.
Am I just lucky so far and yet still playing Russian Roulette? Am I spinning a very large capacity chamber that still has one loaded chamber? :shrug: I have not been convinced that this is the case and I would like to think that taking known precautions would keep me from such a game.
In the mean time, I will keep my eyes open to any additinal information and reported events but I refuse to turn and run based on faulty or what I consider to be overly broad or non scientific inferences or statements based on unseen logic or unsupported yet reported facts. To date, I am convinced that a multiple cell light has earned my respect and demands caution and concern. I knew this before but now am most certainly are of it!!
I am much less clear on a single cell light and the only reported event (to my knowledge) of a single cell involves an AA lithim primary in conjunction with an electronic device that has other stored power connected to its circuit. Now is the AA primary the same chemistry and electrical make up of the CR123? Is it nominally 3 volts? Is the environment in which it failed similar in legitimate considerations to that of a flashlight? If yes, please enlighten me. If no, does mention of it cloud the issue more than anything else? If no then isn't its inclusion in our discussions more a case of unwarranted sensationalizing?
A book should not be judged by its cover but by its content. The event pictured and documented above should be judged by its validity as an experiment and adherence to proper controls and contitions and not by its appearance. I mention this because its appearance could be questioned. I don't question Newbie or his work on this front but I do request that he adhere to responsible control of his experiments and of course take the necessary safety precautions which he certainly seems fluent in. At this point, it seems that we are in a data acquisition phase which can be of benefit to all and possibly considered by those who understand and manufacture these cells as well as provide them to us. What means of design might have been incoporated in the cells above to avoid the event? Are there additional means of protection? Was the above event independent of the particular cells involved and to be considered likely for any pair of CR123 cells subjected to the same mismatch of charge?
Some of us are peaceful by nature and inherently seek tranquility, harmony and understanding. Some of us are warriors by nature and seek battle and a good cause for fight. There are times for the farmer to raise his pitchfork to join in battle and there are times for the warrior to set down his sword. My point? Well beyond the content in these posts and on this forum are the folks who contribute the posts. Such contributions are surely tempered by the nature of the contributor I suspect. :thinking:
Please, let's gather facts and not sensation!!
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